About weapons

Subject: About weapons
Author: Sergio Turbo
Posted on: 2013-10-11 18:30:00 UTC

I don't think Britain-style magicians would be that good at counteracting guns-armed special forces... because they simply know nothing about the Muggle world. I'll explain everything here, as I'm knowledgeable both about Harry Potter and firearms

This excerpt from the third book (Daily Prophet's article about Sirius being on the loose) is a good example:

"While Muggles have been told that Black is carrying a gun (a kind of metal wand that Muggles use to kill each other), the magical community lives in fear of a massacre like that of twelve years ago, when Black murdered thirteen people with a single curse."

This means that most wizards don't even know what a gun is, let alone how it works. Besides, you make a worng assumption with the Shield Charm. Not only it requires a skilled mage and powerful hexes can break it, but your example takes into consideration the wrong paragon - with tank shells and rifle bullets we're talking about penetration power. A Centurion tank's shell, depending on fitted gun and loaded shells, can easily penetrate at least 150mm thick armor. Which means aty least fifteen centimeters, or six inches, of solid, tough steel. I really want to see a charm block that.

Also, assault rifles and most other modern guns are still purely mechanical, so they don't "fizzle out" with magic, as HP magic affects electronics. FN Herstal's P90 would be extremely effective against Death Eaters, thanks to its high rate of fire, accuracy, and penetration.

(Besides, a well-trained tank crew can still kill the two Death Eaters even if their Shield charms work against tank shells. Load high explosive shell, aim near their feet, shoot, proceed to next target.)

And we're not yet talking about tactics. Special Forces hve, as the name says, special training. If a Shield Charm stalls an operative... there's bound to be one who is going to maneuver and attack the Death Eaters from the side or the rear. And there's going to be snipers, too.

There's a reasons why wizards hide in their well-hidden communities. And it would is because if a muggle-wizard war breaks out, wizards wouldn't stand a chance.

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Planning for a HP fanfic, need feedback or warnings. by mingli0777 on 2013-10-11 00:21:00 UTC Reply

Now, for a very long time, I've been thinking and writing snippets for a Harry potter Fanfic that takes place in a universe slightly different from the original universe and events in Real Life, with a Point of Divergence earlier than 1970. If this is too implausible, feel free to call me out.

Now according to HP-canon, Voldermort's reign of terror began in 1970, and I am wondering if its plausible that when he meant Wizarding World, it mean Britain or Europe? Could North America have been excluded from the terror?

So the story goes that one Paul Samuel Greengrass was a friend of James Potter and Sirius Black prior to Hogwarts, though a few years older than Potter or Black. The Greengrass family is traditionally Slytherin or Ravenclaw, though many members in the 20th Century had left Britain, disillusioned by the backwardness of Magical Britain. In Hogwarts, since Paul was in Slytherin, he became an unofficial Maurader, becoming their inside man within the Snakes; after several years, he gradually became a friend of Remus Lupin. However, because Peter Pettigrew was considered a loose talker and might spill about Greengrass, the Rat was left out of the Loop about Paul.

After graduation, Paul have had enough the Purebloods and their views having, suffered seven years of listening to their bigotry, and followed the path of relatives by immigrating to Canada. Soon after, he enlisted within a Magical Branch of the Canadian Forces and by 1980, he had fought tooth and nail to join a covert ops unit based on the SAS, called the Canadian Special Magic Service.

In Britain, Midnight on October 31, 1981, after Harry is attacked by Voldemort, Dumbledore was contacted by Paul (informed by a friend within Canadian intelligence about the deaths of James and Lily), who then convinces Albus that Sirius and Remus could not be the traitors. That causes Dumbledore to think carefully and realize that no one was keeping tabs on Pettigrew. When Sirius arrives at Godric's Hollow, Dumbledore manages to smack some sense in a sobbing Sirius just before he could leave and confront Peter. Dumbledore then tells Sirius to contact Paul, knowing about the secret friendship between James, Sirius, Remus and Paul. Paul, calling in many favours, arranges for Sirius and Harry to leave Britain quietly, and helps them settle down in British Columbia, near where Paul and his new family is living. Canadian Officials interrogate Sirius and clear him of any links to Voldemort's Terrorist Group.

Remus is later found by Paul and is later reunited with Sirius and Harry. By 1988, Paul had left military service and joined the Canadian Magical Intelligence Service, along with Sirius and Remus, the trio enduring piles of paperwork and the occasional field assignment. Throughout the 80s, Harry is raised up by Sirius and his girlfriend-and-later wife, a Canadian Witch who teaches Kindergarten at a school for Magicals. Harry becomes a childhood friend of Daphne Greengrass (no, I will not be pairing anyone until Harry is 16 or 17, so none of that silly shipping like in other fanfics), with both being raised up on Star Trek: TNG, Star Wars, Mister Rogers Neighborhood, Hockey Night in Canada, and other contemporary shows. Harry is rather impulsive, and ever so often gets in trouble in school for beating down bullies, often leading to long chats between Sirius and Harry, with Sirius wanting to get Harry to gain self-control and not follow his own example. Daphne also gets into some trouble for various revenge pranks, though being raised by a Slytherin helps her get away with most of them.

Then I hit writer's Block as I wonder if I should keep them in the Magical Canada's public education system or put them on a one year exchange at Hogwarts.

Re: Planning for a HP fanfic, need feedback or warnings. by Storme Hawk on 2013-10-11 01:20:00 UTC Reply

I'll be plain here and say that I don't particuarly like it. That won't stop me from trying to help you but the idea is fairly overused IMO, as it seems to consist of "Take Harry out of England. Put him wherever author comes from. Show that Author's country is way better on the magical side than Britain is. Have Harry beat the **** out of Voldemort/Dumbledore/Britain in General because of the awesomeness of Author's country. Go home have tea and cake (or regional variants)." Like I said, this seems to be the general idea/basic plan that happens, most often done by Americans (no offence intended) who then display America as this great shining light that has no underage magic restrictions, isn't bound by the ICW, etc. etc. (FYI this isn't just my patriotism speaking, I've beaten the **** out of Magical Britain in one of my fics(as awful as it was)).

If you're going to do this sort of fic properly you need to make it work in several ways. One is the correct connection between the characters who takes Harry and leaves England and, well, Harry. I've seen this done with Sirius and Remus and work best although a well written OC/minor character/slightly major character if its a crossover can do well once again if they have the right reasons. Ignoring the latter (because from what you've said this is a straight HP story) you've gone for someone in between the two, who also manages to be a Fifth Marauder (something I'm never comfortable with unless it's Lily) and saves Sirius from Azkaban.

Personally I think you're reasons for Paul to leave Britain are sketchy (I'll come to Paul the name later), he's an upcoming Heir/Head of his house in all likelihood, and unless he's like Sirius (whereby he's the only 'good' guy in the family and that's highly unlikely due to the circles he seems to be in from his friendship with James) he'll probably have some support in his family, a family that would in all likelihood stay in Britain else the whole of House Greengrass would move, pretty much removing them from the story at this point.

Now for the name. In a world where most purebloods (James seems to be an exception or more likely a shortened form of something like Jameson) are named something along the lines of Lucius, Sirius, Regulus, Theodore, Rudolphus, Abraxius,Fabian etc. Paul seems way too much like a common name compared to them, hell even Snape has more of a pureblood name than Paul despite being a half-blood.

Anyway back to the plan. So we have a foreign soldier (effectively) who hasn't been seen or heard from in X years, who's family is the sort ho would support Voldemort (most likely) that contacts Dumbledore and tries to convince him that Sirius and Remus aren't traitors that's fairly sketchy by itself. Now in the grand scheme of things the night of October the 31st 1981 has a fairly uniform timeline after Voldemort dies. Sirius is the first on the scene, followed shortly after by Hagrid. The time it takes for information to travel (even by magic) wouldn't be fast enough for 'Paul' to contact Dumbledore, to get to Godric's Hollow to stop Sirius chasing Pettigrew. If you want to stop Sirius getting thrown in jail then your best bet would be to scrap what happened that night and have Dumbledore raise the points at Sirius' trial after he gets caught. However that raises the problem of Harry being at the Dursley's for X days, but if you then could throw in some sort of way for Sirius to claim Harry once he is found innocent in the trial and then for Harry to be collected from the Dursleys then all well and good.

Unfortunately for your plan this leaves 'Paul' and Sirius (and thereby Harry) in 2 different countries. How you connect them up I don't know, especially as you've also got to consider that by this point 'Paul' must have a wife with a daughter (Daphne) of one/two year(s) old (roughly) and dependent on where you put Astoria potentially another child on the way. The best way I can see of connecting the two would be to have Sirius move to a Black property in America (a leftover from before the revolution say or if you don't mind making America more like Britain, a place bought X generations back, although this would depend on America being a suitable place for pureblood families such as the Blacks moving to at least for holidays.) Then having the two meet up somehow (once again up to you really).

Finding Remus is a nice touch but I think logistically it'd be a nightmare, maybe not even worth the effort.

Growing up, would be interesting however I don't think all the pop culture should be integrated into it, some maybe but don't have them living as muggles or having technology work fine around them, I feel it's almost like trying to brag or bring your own upbringing into the story.

In answer to your last point, there is a very simple way of answering it. Have them as full time Hogwarts Students. How? Simple, there's a book at Hogwarts that records the name of every witch or wizard born in Britain so that they attend Hogwarts, having Harry and Daphne born in Britain means that they go to school in Britain, tying in nicely with the plots from the books themselves, and not forcing them to have one year to solve everything if they had just one transfer year. Another added bonus is that you can use Hogwarts and its students rather than having to make up your own school and characters for all the staff and students for said school, something that is not only challenging but can also make a fic bad if not done right.

I'd say as to where to go from there, maybe put Harry in a house other than Gryffindor, Slytherin would work as he wouldn't have the prejudice from the books or maybe Ravenclaw or Hufflepuff. From there go on as you want but at least keep most events from canon in, although say you could avoid the Troll event at Halloween (after all even if it happens it's unlikely to have anything to do with Harry or Daphne.)

Hope I've been a help, and once again sorry if I've offended/insulted anyone or any of their works both in Fan and Original Fiction
Storme Hawk

P.S. Make sure to include at least one Python reference ;P

Thanks for the Feedback by mikelima on 2013-10-11 03:23:00 UTC Reply

Thank you for your honesty, Storme Hawke. I really appreciate your candid advice. Is there anyway to email you for other advice?

Now, the Magical Community in Canada will have its fair share of internal issues, but to be honest, it pales in comparison to what we saw in Britain within the HP-canon. There are recriminations over the treatment of First Nations, plus there are sharp arguments between Canada and the United States. In my story, there is quite a few more Magicals in Canada than in the United States, due to the discrimination of Wizards and Witches in America dating back to the Puritans and the Salem Witch Trials. There is also some issues within Quebec, where there are families that still have the mindset of Royalist France. There are age restrictions, banning the use of Magic in Non-Magical Areas like Vancouver, Toronto, and Montreal. While accidental magic is tolerated, wand waving is a big no no for anywhere with people that don't know of Magic.

The Canadian Department of Magical Affairs is a founding member of the ICW, and the Canadian Government is obligated to follow ICW resolutions, though that doesn't mean covert ops is off the Table. Based on the Parliamentary System, they have a Legislature and a Senate, and occasionally there are calls for abolish the senate.

Paul(maybe short for Paulus) is the son of Jeremiah Greengrass, who is the head of the family. Jeremiah circa the 70s had been a fence sitter, though slightly towards the plight of non-Purebloods. Their family has had a variety of people supporting opposite sides, with a distant relative or two dead while serving Voldemort. Paul's family in 1974 (Paul was in 6th Year) was threatened by Death Eaters (who implied Torture if they didn't comply), leading to debate within the Family over staying or leaving. Ultimately, the family, which had property in Canada, decided to leave, though Paul would finish one more year, and was given the choice to stay and help maintain the remaining family assets or join everyone else. Basically, the bigotry just confirmed his intentions to move. Unfortunately, some of their properties was bought out by the Malfoys and other supporters of Riddle.

Paul wasn't an official Maurader, lacking an animagi form, plus in the public he more or less ignored the Mauraders. To maintain plausible dependability, Paul was affected by the more harmless pranks like getting his hair turned green or pretended to be in the bathrooms throwing up during more vengeful pranks by the Mauraders. He knows about the Maurader's Map but cannot access it. I'll take your advice, and have Harry be sent to the Dursleys for a few days, while Sirius was arrested. Perhaps after the arrest, Dumbledore gets an earful from Paul, who insists that something was fishy about the arrest, and decides to reveal to Dumbledore the Animagi forms of James, Peter, and Sirius.

Paul would remind Sirius that the family had property in Canada, a large cedar cabin build on 5 hectares of land bordering the Pacific coast, the land purchased back when British Columbia was a separate colony of Britain. Located by the coastline, they do have floo connections for access to various places in Canada.

Now perhaps Remus, hearing of the acquittal of Sirius, might then move to Canada, with Remus getting some treatments to mitigate his transformation and long term health effects.

Harry and his friends in Canada will get some exposure to popular culture, though Magical Canada has its own stuff as well, with a limited form of TV (and for proper continuity, that is the old analog sets).

If Harry was going to Hogwarts, he'll either be Ravenclaw or Hufflepuff, with a remote chance of Gryffindor. He'll be decently smart, brave, and quite loyal.

Harry will still play some role against Voldemort, but I am planning to have Tom Riddle and his followers get most of their ass-kicking from the Magical Branch of the Canadian Forces. I don't think Death Eaters know how to deal with infantry armed with automatic weapons and refurbished Centurion tanks.

Mikelima (aka mingli0777; forgot to change username)

Let's see. by Storme Hawk on 2013-10-11 17:13:00 UTC Reply

Now I'm back in my own room...

It's good to see that you've got a slightly gritty background for Canada. One problem I see however is that the ICW was formed sometime in the 1690's latest, whilst Canada was only formed in 1867. So it can't really be a founding country of the ICW if it wasn't even formed then.

Good to see a more in depth background over why the Greengrass' leave, I'll assume that this could be seen as the main diverging point for your story with them in canon staying in Britain. Although how Paul marries and has two kids is still a mystery.

As Dawnfire correctly pointed out (and I forgot because a) I haven't read the books in a small while and b) I've read way too many HP fanfics) Sirius doesn't actually get a trial, so working out how he get's given one could be interesting but doable. One extra thing I missed out from my first run through is that it would be more plausible to have Paul in the Magical Intelligence from the start rather than going through the army then the SAS style thing, it also makes a lot more sense that he would hear the news of Voldemort's demise then rather than hearing it from a 'friend' (who you'd really have to give more detail on). Anyway, if Dumbledore then pulls Sirius out of Azkaban, gives him a trial (it'd last more than one day, mind and Paul would probably have to come back over to Britain to speak on Sirius' defence). I don't see what revealing the animagi forms would do. Maybe that's just me though.

Once again my problem with Sirius moving to Canada is why? assuming that like the Greengrasses the Blacks have more than one property in England, then they probably wouldn't move into Grimmauld Place (can't remember if that's spelt right, so I'm sorry for any Mini-Aragogs) but into another house the Blacks own. Besides potentially owing Paul one for helping him get out Sirius will have no obligation to move to Canada and even then, if you owe someone it's not like you'll move to be right next to them when you still have a place where you are.

Remus I'm still not sure about. But that's just me, if you want him to be contacted by Sirius to help him raise Harry that's probably the best way to go.

Assuming Harry gets to Canada then yeah, the I suppose the old black and white TV sets would probably be the most advanced they'd get.

Hogwarts, yeah I think that's probably a good idea, you've then got to include Daphne into it, and all the canonical characters as well. Think how Snape, Draco, Ron etc. will react (within reason).

"Harry will still play some role against Voldemort, but I am planning to have Tom Riddle and his followers get most of their ass-kicking from the Magical Branch of the Canadian Forces. I don't think Death Eaters know how to deal with infantry armed with automatic weapons and refurbished Centurion tanks."

I've quoted the whole paragraph for a reason. I've seen quite a few fics where muggle weaponry is used to obliterate the Death Eaters, and whilst yeah it's cool to use a tank to blow them apart you've got to think about it and get it to work. As with most technological things I generally stick with the rule introduced by Harry Dresden in the Dresden Files, basically wizards can't use anything that's new than the 40's or 50's without it not really working for them, because I think it's a good rule and work well. This would mean that the upper limit of stuff the Canadian Magical service could use if they did use muggle weaponry would be from WW2, so yeah I suppose the Centurion could be used. One of the other things that comes up is the (relatively) simple Shield Charm and its variants. When cast in Canon it's been seen to at least stop Centaurs, Snatchers and even Hermione so it's not impossible to make the jump that if it can stop bodies as big as that it can also stop bullets, tank shells etc. Meaning that if two Death Eaters worked in tandem (one with a Shield Charm the other with say the Blasting Hex) they could easily blow up a tank without receiving any damage themselves. And against men, well the AK can kill them off whilst a Shield charm stops their weapons from doing the same.

In effect the only way to counteract wizards is to use wizards. I think the only real way of defeating Wizards through muggle means are long range bombardments and/or planes dropping bombs (but even then both have a Wizard counter (so long as a man on a broom could counter a plane)). Or Snipers, they could work quite well.

I hope I've given you some things to think about. I've certainly thought about the last point as I tried to do it for one of my fanfics before realizing the counters that could be taken.

Storme Hawk (The guy who spends way too much time reading Harry Potter fanfiction)

About weapons by Sergio Turbo on 2013-10-11 18:30:00 UTC Reply

I don't think Britain-style magicians would be that good at counteracting guns-armed special forces... because they simply know nothing about the Muggle world. I'll explain everything here, as I'm knowledgeable both about Harry Potter and firearms

This excerpt from the third book (Daily Prophet's article about Sirius being on the loose) is a good example:

"While Muggles have been told that Black is carrying a gun (a kind of metal wand that Muggles use to kill each other), the magical community lives in fear of a massacre like that of twelve years ago, when Black murdered thirteen people with a single curse."

This means that most wizards don't even know what a gun is, let alone how it works. Besides, you make a worng assumption with the Shield Charm. Not only it requires a skilled mage and powerful hexes can break it, but your example takes into consideration the wrong paragon - with tank shells and rifle bullets we're talking about penetration power. A Centurion tank's shell, depending on fitted gun and loaded shells, can easily penetrate at least 150mm thick armor. Which means aty least fifteen centimeters, or six inches, of solid, tough steel. I really want to see a charm block that.

Also, assault rifles and most other modern guns are still purely mechanical, so they don't "fizzle out" with magic, as HP magic affects electronics. FN Herstal's P90 would be extremely effective against Death Eaters, thanks to its high rate of fire, accuracy, and penetration.

(Besides, a well-trained tank crew can still kill the two Death Eaters even if their Shield charms work against tank shells. Load high explosive shell, aim near their feet, shoot, proceed to next target.)

And we're not yet talking about tactics. Special Forces hve, as the name says, special training. If a Shield Charm stalls an operative... there's bound to be one who is going to maneuver and attack the Death Eaters from the side or the rear. And there's going to be snipers, too.

There's a reasons why wizards hide in their well-hidden communities. And it would is because if a muggle-wizard war breaks out, wizards wouldn't stand a chance.

I disagree by Hieronymus Graubart on 2013-10-12 13:04:00 UTC Reply

There's a reason why wizards hide away from the Muggle world – but is it fear? I have always seen this as an act of humanity. It was the only way to make the Muggles forget that magic exists so that they would not longer burn each other.

It’s true that most British wizards don’t even know what a gun is. But most British Muggles are not allowed to have a gun. For the average wizard, the risk to be attacked by a gun-wielding Muggle is negligible. Ordinary wizards and witches don’t need to know anything about guns, just like they generally don’t need to know much about Muggle technology.

On the other hand, Death Eaters aren’t ordinary wizards, they are supposed to be Voldemort’s Special Forces, prepareing to take over the world – or at least Britain. I wouldn’t expect that they just stand in the line of fire not knowing what to do. The Death Eaters may have been too arrogant to learn anything about Muggle police and Muggle weapons, and they may be not smart enough to adapt their tactics when somebody shoots at them, but basing all the ass-kicking on this assumption would feel like a simple cope-out to me.

A wizard surprised by a sniper doesn’t stand a chance, but a well-armed soldier AK’ed by a sniping wizard also doesn’t stand a chance. In a classic dueling situation, everything depends on the Muggles ability to draw his gun and pull the trigger faster than the wizard can draw his wand and cast a spell to disarm or kill the gunslinger – which is obviously much more efficient than an attempt to deflect the bullet with a shield charm.

On the battle field, wizards could confund or imperio the soldiers to make them use all this awesome firepower to shoot each other rather than the wizards. Is it possible to vanish a tank? What happens when a tank’s gun is fired while the tank is levitated? For most spells used in the books the wizard needs to see the target and aim at it. But as every sniper knows, having a line of sight to the enemy shouldn’t mean that he can see and shoot you first.

Peter Pettigrew could blow up thirteen persons with one spell, so there seem to be spells of mass destruction that don’t need to be aimed carefully? Or the “gas explosion” wasn’t just a lie for the Muggles, and Wormtail did ignite an underground gas pipeline to cause this crater. May it then be possible to ignite a tank’s ammunition although the wizard cannot see the shells inside the tank like Wormtail couldn’t see this pipeline underground? Would it be necessary to see the tank?

There's a reason why the Death Eaters will be defeated by the Magical Branch of the Canadian Forces, who know what they should expect and can take magical countermeasures. Muggle Special Forces wouldn’t even know what hit them.

An outright muggle-wizard war obviously couldn’t even happen if the Muggles weren’t, at least to a certain extent, aware of what magic can do, but I’m not so sure who would win. What I’m sure about is that it would be horrible and might destroy the world as we know it.

HG

Those are good points. by Sergio Turbo on 2013-10-12 16:35:00 UTC Reply

In fact, my analysis was entirely from a Magical Brnch point of view - of course a smart wizard can use the suprise effect of magic on muggles at his advantage.

I agree completely by the Irish Samurai on 2013-10-11 20:42:00 UTC Reply

Particularly about the difference between magic being able to interfere with technology, and just being able to interfere with electricity.

You also make a good point about the penetrating power of various projectiles, although I'm not sure how relevant that is, given that the shields are magic - they could have a basically infinite capacity to absorb/deflect incoming energy. Personally, I would expect a bullet to be able to penetrate a Shield Charm, but I can't think of any comparable incident in the canon to actually base that on.

However, (from what I can remember) when they're in combat, wizards in Harry Potter don't just start off by casting a shield on themselves and having it protect them throughout the fight, they cast it in response to an attack. Given that Muggles now have automatic weapons... well, I'd like to see a wizard try and cast a shield at a rate of 700 rounds a minute.

As for the tactics, yeah, even a squad of regular soldiers should be more than a match for an equal number of wizards. With big fights, the wizards always seemed to split off into seperate Wizard's Duals, whereas a squad of soldiers will have been trained to work together, provide support, and take out their targets. I simply can't see the wizards having the right mindset to fight effectively against actual military forces.

As you've said, there's a reason that wizards hide away from the Muggle world - at that reason existed hundreds of years ago, when the most dangerous Muggles had were things like swords and crossbows. We've got a whole lot more dangerous since then.
On that note: by mikelima on 2013-10-11 20:24:00 UTC Reply

Now while vehicles would likely be a generation or two behind the modern counterparts (for the early 90s Leopard C1 and C2 main battle tanks with 105mm cannon, and due to being an ATL this Canada is procuring ex-German Leopard 2A6s starting int the latter half of the 90s), Canada's infantry weapons, aside from surface to air missiles and possibly the M72 LAW, should not be affected by Magic.

By the mid 80ss, the real life Canadian was already replacing the C1 and C2 assault rifles (license built FN FALs) with the Diemaco C7 Rifle, an improved M16. By the mid 90s, the C7A1 was introduced along with the C79 Optical Sight. This sight wouldn't be affected by Magic as it uses Tritium for illumination, and I don't think Magic can affect nuclear physics.

As well, rifles typically fire rounds at supersonic velocities and contrary to some fanfics bullets don't leave a streak of light unless its a tracer round. Its hard to see and detect a projectile that you cant even hear until it hits you.

A little correction: by Desdendelle on 2013-10-12 10:18:00 UTC Reply

As someone who fired an M16 I can tell you that it makes a loud, distinctive sound - it sounds like a balloon being blown up, only much louder. People wear earplugs in firing ranges for a reason, and usually those ranges' walls are covered in noise-absorbent materials so people passing by won't go deaf because of the noise. So you'll probably know if someone fired a rifle at your vicinity, but your window of opportunity to dodge or do something would be very, very small.

It's OK by Storme Hawk on 2013-10-11 13:21:00 UTC Reply

Yeah, you can email me at thestormehawk@gmail.com

I'll read through your revised version in a bit, currently in my uni's computer labs.
A couple of points for both of you. by DawnFire on 2013-10-11 07:00:00 UTC Reply

First of all, I'm intrigued that you're using Canada. Pretty cool. However:

First of all, Mikelima, you mentioned that Paul was unknown to Peter. The problems with that...well, first of all, unless Paul was only ever being the man on the inside in their seventh year or something, that's a pretty big secret to keep from someone you trust so completely. Remember, while Peter was chosen to be the Secret Keeper because that way Sirius could act as decoy, he would never have been chosen for such an important task if he wasn't trusted completely and absolutely. Sirius, James, and Lily trusted him to guard Lily, James, and Harry with his life if necessary; they believed he would never betray them. They suspected Remus at the time, not Peter; that rather indicates that Peter could keep his mouth shut, and that he didn't have a history of blurting out secrets, either--first impressions do tend to last, and if Peter had originally babbled out every secret entrusted to him, that would have remained a concern, no matter what had changed. Also realize that Peter was working for Voldemort for at least a year without being caught. Now, while I suppose he could have been unaware that James and Paul had kept up their friendship of sorts post-Hogwarts (due to timing, it not seeming important, I don't know), he would not have been so completely out of the loop. It just doesn't make sense. I know that, as people who know what Peter eventually does, the temptation is to make him obviously untrustworthy or lesser or uninvolved, but...he was a Marauder. He was a follower, yes, but one who was completely trusted, never suspected, and, I hope, treated as a friend. Remember, the Marauders can't see the future; all they knew was that Peter wasn't above average in terms of wit, and that he was easily impressed by James (and probably Sirius as well). Bottom line, he was their friend, and they trusted him with their most important Secret.

Second, Storme Hawk--Sirius never got a trial. I can find the quote, if you like, but Dumbledore would have had to specifically insist that there be a trial if he's to raise points about Sirius' possible innocence. In canon, Sirius was never tried; he was just sent straight to Azkaban.

I do rather like this idea, though--Paul, the 'connection' in Slytherin (although, why is he helping to play pranks on his own House? Or was that explained and I forgot?) and all the stuff about Canada...you just need to get the details completely believable, which, I suppose, is why you asked for advice in the first place.

But yeah, I agree with Storme Hawk about the Hogwarts bit--exchange years just...don't really seem to make sense. He could get an acceptance letter as a British wizarding citizen, though, and then have to decide between that and staying in Canada with his friends, where he would also have received an acceptance letter...poor kid.

Also, bear in mind that there's a good deal of prejudice against Remus because of his furry little problem...although a recently-pardoned Sirius might be able to get away with more things than usual, I suppose...especially with Dumbledore's backing...but I get the feeling the Daily Prophet would raise a stink about Harry living with or near a werewolf either way.

This has been a message from DawnFire, Harry Potter fan and fanwriter (who had to work out a Fifth Marauder AU so it made sense and had to give a lot of thought to Peter. And yes, I am completely guilty of sidelining Peter as well; I just...came to realize it made no sense in canon).

Thank you Dawnfire by mikelima on 2013-10-11 07:26:00 UTC Reply

Thank you so much for your comments:

I guess yeah it might be hard to deal with Peter. Considering that the point of divergence with Canon will be around 1970 or even earlier (The four Mauraders in Canon according to the Lexicon entered Hogwarts in 71), perhaps we see a few minor butterfly effects happening, maybe Peter had a little thing here and there.

I was thinking that Paul would firmly ask Dumbledore to see that Sirius gets a trial. After all, even if Sirius is Guilty, they need to pronounce justice, and properly sentence him. Paul's possible motivation may be overhearing an argument between his father and a Pureblood Supremacist, maybe Lucius's Father or another family like the Notts. Perhaps he might have been bullied by Lucius prior to entering Hogwarts. Now, I typically write Alternate History stuff, and when in that genre when you use earlier and earlier points of divergence from Our Timeline ("OTL"), many many changes that can happen.

I was thinking an alternative on Hogwarts or Canadian Education is that He and Daphne decide to go to Hogwarts, and endure the ire of Slytherin and etc. A few butterflies lead to perhaps a less traumatic confrontation with Quirrell, and Dumbledore gets the confirmation that Riddle is Back. Dumbledore has a slight epiphany and decides to tell the Prophecy to Sirius, asking him to tell Harry that there was a Prophecy made, and that if Harry wants to, he can listen to it.

For second year, I was thinking of either Harry staying in Canada, after informing Sirius or Remus about the Warnings from Dobby, or he might think about still going, despite Dobby's Efforts. I was leaning to the latter, as I intend for Dubledore to be honest to the parents of Hermione Granger (and no they are not going to get the cliched names of Dan and Emma) and they consider getting Hermione to Withdraw. Paul offers an alternative, and Hermione may or may not join Harry and Daphne for one normal year at a Canadian school.

For fourth year, everything would be normal until Holloween, when well...

I'll continue more later.