Subject: *points and laughs* (nm)
Author:
Posted on: 2013-10-02 16:58:00 UTC
-
I'm back! by
on 2013-10-02 06:23:00 UTC
Reply
Hello guys, it's so good to back on Board. Some of you may still remember me, some of you might not. In any case, I'm just going to introduce myself again.
I'm Autumn_68, preferred to be known as Autumn, and I originally joined somewhere around early August. I spent two lovely weeks on the Board, welcoming newbies, participating in discussions, etc. And then I had to take national exams, so I left the Board for about two months.
I'm a shy, Asian pre-teen (11 years old, to be precise) that well...kindaliedaboutmyagelasttimeIwashere. *flushes* I'm so sorry, I really am. I told all of you that I'm 13 when I haven't even hit 12 yet. I feel so bad about myself now. I *do* apologise, I was such a jerk then, sorry, I'm really sorry...sorry.
Again, I apologise if I speak broken English sometimes, because I'm not so much of a native English speaker. (I speak Chinese with my family and South-East-Asian-nised English with the rest of the people.)
My fandoms are The Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter, Pirates of the Caribbean, The Hunger Games and Percy Jackson and The Olympians. I have limited knowledge on Wheel of Time and The Matrix, and I plan to start on Discworld when I finally find it in the library. (Argh)
I can Circle-Dive without as much trouble because I basically hang out with this bunch of nice fangirls that *wouldn't* pick up a high fantasy book however I insist. The only time they got interested was when I started carrying The Silm around and they were fascinated with the book cover. (They thought the drawing was frosted glass.) So, they make me go to the Circle to read so-called-goodfics. So I'm basically used to that place now, and I can Circle-Dive anytime I want provided I take with me a kitchen knife and a pair of sunglasses. I think.
If I haven't drowned you in brackets and nonsense, thank you. I really, really appreciate that you put up with me.
~Autumn -
Hello again! by
on 2013-10-03 02:34:00 UTC
Reply
Greetings and re-welcomes to you!
You are a very cool 11-year-old (I'm fourteen), you were/are not a jerk, and you speak wonderful English.
>there, now that that's out of the way
And the Silm is awesome and my favorite book. I was Lúthien for Halloween last year, although it didn't work out, 'cause I don't have black hair, the wig wouldn't stay on, and no-one seemed to have read the book in the first place. *grumbles*
Well, welcome back and have a wilver top hat!
-Aila -
Thanks! by
on 2013-10-03 07:11:00 UTC
Reply
I guess you could be Radagast with suspiciously female traits...I'm not sure. If there was a Silm character with brown hair, then I forgot him/her. Proves that I have bad memory and I seriously need to refresh it.
~Autumn -
Is Haleth's hair color mentioned? I can't remember. (nm) by
on 2013-10-03 08:13:00 UTC
Reply
-
Well, we can surely work it out. by
on 2013-10-03 13:25:00 UTC
Reply
We know, of course, that hair colour in Tolkien tends to be the same across an entire people - so all Noldor have black hair, all Rohirrim are blond, etc. The exceptions are for specific families - Nerdanel's kin featured red hair, apparently uniquely.
We also know that, of the three houses of the Edain (Hador, Haleth, Beor), Hador was called 'the golden'. So they were mostly blonde.
Hurin and Huor were a mix of Hador (from their father Galdor) and Haleth (from their mother Hareth). They married daughters of House Beor, one of whom was Morwen, noted for her black hair - which both implies that Beor was generally dark (otherwise that's genetically impossible), but also that they didn't tend towards jet black (since that would be unremarkable, but hers is commented on). So we can assume House Beor was brown-haired.
Beren, interestingly, had fair hair, but where he pulled it from I'm not quite sure. His parents appear to have both been pure Beor.
But anyway, we're down to Turin and Tuor. Tuor was taken for a Noldo several times, which implies he had dark or black hair. Turin I don't know, but I really can't imagine him being blonde. Which... well. We know one half of their heritage was Beor (dark). We know one quarter was Hador (blond).
But wait, we can go further: Nienor and Lalaith. While I don't actually know, I'm moderately sure Nienor was dark-haired (otherwise she would have been more visible at the various points where she's hiding from people. Lalaith... well, the book might actually say, I can't remember.
Unfortunately at this point we run foul of genetics: blonde hair, at least in our world, is recessive. We don't know where Beren's blondness came from - probably a Hador marriage a little way back - so we can't even guess whether the gene would be available to the Hurin/Huor families.
Ultimately, we come back to one statement: House Hador were specifically 'the golden-haired'. That strongly implies the other houses weren't. So Haleth, probably, had dark hair. Black or brown, we can't tell.
hS
PS: The best way to work this out would be to pull out a copy of The Children of Hurin. The woodsmen of Brethil are the last remnants of the House of Haleth - if you can find a hair-colour reference anywhere in there, it could help pin it down. My copy, alas, is all boxed up. ~hS -
Wow, thank you by
on 2013-10-04 04:48:00 UTC
Reply
That was impressive. And I shall indeed be Haleth, I think. She's awesome.
-Aila -
Oops. by
on 2013-10-04 04:17:00 UTC
Reply
I returned The Children of Húrin to the library two days ago. But, oh, I guess you're right in that 'Haleth had dark hair' theory. From the information I could gather from the Silm, Haleth most likely had dark hair.
~Autumn -
I have it now. by
on 2013-10-08 19:27:00 UTC
Reply
Children of Hurin, I mean. Running down the various Edain I can find on a quick pass:
Hador (blond) has various descendants, eventually coming down to Hurin and Huor. Hurin married Morwen (dark), and they had Urwen Lalaith (blonde), Turin (dark like his mother), and Nienor Niniel (blonde - her golden hair is revealed when Morwen leaves Doriath in search of Turin - bizarrely, her hair turns dark when she runs from Glaurung, and yes, this is discussed later). The whole people of Hador are nicknamed the Strawheads by Brodda the Easterling, implying the majority of them are blond (and not just the ruling house).
In Brethil, among the remnant of the people of Haleth, we meet their lord Brandir, Dorlas, and Hunthor. Hunthor is once described as 'a dark form' (and mistaken for Dorlas), so that may indicate dark hair - but on the other hand, they're in shadow at the time. That's... all we have on the House of Haleth. Still, the evidence strongly suggests they were dark-haired.
hS -
hS, you are amazing. by
on 2013-10-09 05:38:00 UTC
Reply
Did I ever mention that? I do believe I shall attempt to dress up as Haleth. Now to go look at fanart...
-Aila -
Haleth is one of those people... by
on 2013-10-09 10:43:00 UTC
Reply
... who Tolkien gave us very little about, which (as is usual in the case of minor Silm characters) means I get most of my impression of her from Philosopher at Large's Leithian Script. Haleth actually gets mentioned twice, the first time in Nargothrond:
Finrod: [musing]
--Haleth was like that. Wonderful child, but one had to be careful not to agree with her too closely, or she'd take it all wrong.
Beren:
I'm not that bad. I don't think. --Hey! You knew Haleth? As in the Haleth? Lady Haleth of Brethil?
Finrod:
Yes, she was having a run-in with Elwe, as it happens. Or Elu, as he calls himself now. Life's funny like that.
Beren:
It makes a little more sense if he's like the rest of the crew, but I never understood why she wouldn't take up Lord Caranthir's offer of shelter.
Finrod: [drily]
Obviously you've never met Caranthir.
Beren:
? . . . ?
Finrod:
--Let me put it this way: I don't cross him. --Ever. No, that wasn't the incident I was referring to. Why? Because Haleth was an intelligent and perceptive young woman and was not fooled by Caranthir's charming ways and words. Ever wonder why they showed up a week late, after the lord of the land was killed, and the heir, when they were practically in his backyard? Caranthir knew them for efficient fighters, and wanted them grateful, and leaderless. And he has not, so far as I can tell, the slightest compunction about using mortal Men as a screen for his more -- valued, shall we say -- troops. --I don't know that for a fact, of course. That's just my reading of the events. And the way he spits when he hears her name. No, I was referring to the -- tenor, of her exchanges with Elu over that unused property of his. It was a rather, er, heated crossfire to be caught in. A little tact might have made a great difference.
She's also discussed midway through Act IV (which takes place in the Halls of Mandos, with a whole bunch of dead people...)
Fingolfin:
Or -- what was her name, that young mortal woman who caused so much fuss not too long ago?
[the other Belerianders stare at him]
[simultaneously (overlapping)]
Everyone from Middle-earth, native or returned:
-- Haleth!!
[there is an embarrassed moment as everyone sort of recollects themselves]
Fingolfin: [defensive]
You must grant, I never met the lady.
Aegnor: [sarcastic aside]
There's a surprise --
Angrod:
Neither did I -- but we still heard about her enough to remember her name, uncle! It wasn't as though there weren't relatives of hers straggling through the realm for the better part of a decade.
Aegnor: [faint amusement]
It was almost like the first years here, where you never knew when you were going to walk into a settlement of strangers giving you funny looks and speaking a language nearly but not quite comprehensible. It was rather hard not to cross Nargothrond and hear the name "Haleth" in the process --
Angrod: [interrupting]
-- But he didn't, don't you recall?
[the Princes shake their heads in too-obvious pity, to their uncle's chagrin]
Luthien:
Yes, annexing part of the kingdom and then telling Mablung off for trespassing --
[to the Valinorean Eldar, living and otherwise]
-- well, you don't know our Captains, so that doesn't mean much to you, but people listen to them, most of the time -- when he came to try to evict them, does sort of stick in people's memory.
Finrod:
Not to mention dragging half-a-thousand unwilling kinsmen through a vale full of giant spiders and other assorted monstrosities, and her with no natural abilities whatsoever to help her defend them, and most of them increasingly convinced she was insane for not staying in a land already cultivated and partially settled, because there was too much "open" to the northward. Or commanding a successful defense against the Enemy's minions, when everyone else was on the verge of giving up and dying before rescue arrived -- which was partly the reason they didn't kick her out as chief after the business with the Old Road and the mutant beasts. "The spiders were a mistake," she told me, "I thought they were bogles out of tales to frighten bad children -- or Men who might think of going too close to the Shadowking's woods otherwise."
[shaking his head]
The way they talked about her, you couldn't tell if they thought she was brilliant, mad, or both -- and that they weren't sure either. But not being around her wasn't an option, any more than for moths about a lit candle.
And from the notes to the first scene:
Caranthir: perhaps I read too much ancient history and political intrigue, but I can't escape the conclusion that for some reason, the Haladin found their rescuer even more scary, and the thought of his active involvement in their lives a worse prospect, than Orcs. One doesn't become refugees for no good reason, particularly just after having fought a hard war. Add that to the chroniclers' asides as to Caranthir's insolence, arrogance, hideous temper, and later actions — and it adds up, for me, to a picture of someone charismatic, dynamic, charming, and violent, whom you don't ever, ever want to tangle with if you have any sense… He is after all a Son of Feanor too.
Haleth: It's been at least three generations since the legendary Chieftain of the Haladin led her people to a new homeland in the western forests, and for most of us, fifty years ago is — a long time. A hundred years ago is a long time. A hundred-fifty years ago is a long time…two hundred a really long time… Intellectually we may even know that, realize that compared to say "geological time", it's nothing, but on a basic personal level — it's all "a long time ago." Even for those of us who really know history and study family lore, there's a certain cognitive dissonance involved in keeping the relative scale present. I do think that this would be the case for Beren, who never even had the opportunity to achieve the level of accustomed familiarity that his older relatives had with Elvenkind in the Leaguer — and that it would trouble Finrod, divided as in Canon between loyalty and prudential considerations.
Yeah... Lady Haleth's pretty cool.
hS -
Like I said, amazing. (nm) by
on 2013-10-09 20:46:00 UTC
Reply
-
Bah...forgot...damn... (nm) by
on 2013-10-03 11:46:00 UTC
Reply
-
You were Luthien? by
on 2013-10-03 05:12:00 UTC
Reply
Aila, if I gave out 'cool' points, you would have just gotten a ton of them. As it is--here, have this convenient basket full of cookies :)
~DF -
Well, more like I tried to bee Lúthien. And failed. by
on 2013-10-03 05:34:00 UTC
Reply
But thanks for the cookies!
...I'm sort of wondering who I'm going to pick from the Silm to be this year, hopefully the seemingly non-existent brown-haired female. Any suggestions?
-Aila -
That typo gave me an incredibly amusing mental image. by
on 2013-10-03 06:35:00 UTC
Reply
A large hive the size of a city block (from the perspective of its inhabitants, at any rate), with tiny Elves dressed in yellow-and-black striped clothing running around it and throughout its catacombs and speaking to each other in high-pitched buzzing noises.
But then everything changed when Beekeeper Ungoliant emerges from the horizon. Draped in the imposing hazmat suit traditional to beekeepers everywhere, a necessary barrier from the stinger-arrows of the elves, she cracks open the hive to retrieve the Elves' hard-wrought Varda Light within. Once she has had all she can carry, she takes it back to her house and stores it in whimsical tree-shaped containers to sell at the local farmers' market.
So this is what happens when I check the Board at 1 a.m. Good to know. -
A continuation by
on 2013-10-03 18:24:00 UTC
Reply
And, of course, she sells them all to Modern Artist Morgoth--no, he'd be Melkor at this point. They're very good friends. However, there's a bit more of the Varda Light, and since it's in such high demand, Melkor (being curious) comes with Beekeeper Ungoliant to get it. Unfortunately, the Elves are guarding it fiercely...and Melkor, discovering a previously unknown fear of Elves, swats Finwe and crushes him under his boot. The Beekeeper and the Artist (oh no, more Time Lord names, help) leave with the Varda Light, and Feanor the Elf swears vengeance on the one he now renames Morgoth...because Melkor is now an enemy, and he was wearing black at the time and cast a giant shadow besides. Feanor's seven sons take up the call as well, and they and their followers set off on a dangerous quest to regain the previous Varda Light...
Funnily enough, I guess this is what happens when I check the Board at 1 pm.
~DF -
*laughter* Brilliant again. (nm) by
on 2013-10-04 04:49:00 UTC
Reply
-
Thanks :) Glad you enjoyed :D (nm) by
on 2013-10-04 15:49:00 UTC
Reply
-
Yes. Just yes. by
on 2013-10-03 08:15:00 UTC
Reply
That's hilarious and brilliant. Beekeeper!Ungoliant is inspirational.
-Aila -
Wow! by
on 2013-10-03 07:19:00 UTC
Reply
That's really interesting. Now I wonder what the Ainulindalë would look like in bee-version. Probably a bunch of gigantic bees buzzing before an even more gigantic queen bee sitting on a beeswax-throne. :)
-
Hey, really, don't worry about it. by
on 2013-10-02 23:49:00 UTC
Reply
...I feel vaguely like I'm starting to become an oldbie. I think I'm just getting to the point where I'm more comfortable than 'I'mnotjustaPPCfangirlIpromise', that may be it...anyway.
Like Kitty said, you're a pretty cool 11 year old :) And we're glad to have you. I share all of your fandoms except for Wheel of Time, and you'll probably love Discworld (or possibly not. Not everyone does. I do, though, and a lot of PPC stories are kind of similar, so if you like those...you may well like Discworld).
Hope your exams went well! Also, here, have some extra-fine Swiss Bleepolate for the Circle-Diving: you'll need it. It's an essential part of visiting the Circle (along with Lemming Repellent...) Also, Gummyblee Pirate Hats (a la Captain Jack Sparrow). May as well. Circle-Divers need all the Bleeproducts available, trust me...I've found out from experience.
You appreciate us putting up with you? Well, we appreciate you putting up with us :) And, y'know, being here. Everyone adds to the community, you know, and I have yet to see your contribution being a bad one. And now I'll stop being somewhat sappy and comment on the Silm (isn't it amazing? A little hard to get through, maybe, but, well, it's got some great stories in it. Did you get through it? Which story/character was your favorite?)
Out of curiosity, which fandoms do your bunch of nice fangirls write for? And, um, how bad are their "so-called goodfics", as you put it?
~DF -
Thank you for your advice! by
on 2013-10-03 08:08:00 UTC
Reply
I just bought The Colour of Magic yesterday, and so far it has been awesome. Oh yes, thank you for your gifts; I'll make sure to bring them next time I go Circle-Diving.
My favourite story from the Silm? Hmm...I like Of Túrin Turumbar (I've read the Children of Húrin) best, and then Of Beren and Lúthien comes second. The Darkening of Valinor is also very nice. My favourite character(s)? I guess it's Maglor, Túrin and Eärendil for male characters and Morwen and Melian for female ones.
I'll list the fandoms of my friends here: Percy Jackson and the Olympians, Taylor Swift, One Direction, Mortal Instruments, Taylor Swift, One Direction, Harry Potter, and lastly, Taylor Swift and One Direction! In addition, one of them is a fan of Twilight and another likes The Inheritance Cycle. (Darn) Many of them have crushes on Niall Horan and one of them (my best friend) is actually convinced that she is in love with Harry Styles.
As for their fanfiction, none of them except for my best friend has actually published fanfiction yet but they have shown me their stories. As far as I am concerned, those are actually 'Sue-fics. I have to wrench my features into a smile instead of a disgusted, horrified expression I'm always tempted to make while reading those stories. *shudders* Occasionally, I do explain to them what a 'Sue is but they'll just look at me with this confused expression and carry on making 'Sue-fics. And then there's tolerating squeals, glomps, sobbing (of how they'll never marry Mr. Styles/Horan/Payne/Tomlinson/Malik), and of course, shrieks of how who-and-who "are, like, sooooo hott. Especially him, he's soooooo cute!"
Ah well. But they're still good friends that are worth it, so tolerating a little doesn't hurt! That is, if they don't damage my brain cells.
~Autumn -
Nice to see you again! by
on 2013-10-02 23:10:00 UTC
Reply
Hey it's alright. I'm pretty young myself (14!)
It's alright, you weren't being a jerk. It's hard being young when you're surrounded by others who are in college and maybe even college graduates. For an pre-teen, you're pretty cool. Most of the 11 year olds I know don't even know what fanfiction is!
Another Circle Diver? What kind of badfic do you find? I look for Sherlock ones.
Nice to see you again! -
Thank you for the warm welcome! by
on 2013-10-03 08:20:00 UTC
Reply
I search mainly for Harry Potter, Percy Jackson, The Lord of the Rings and The Hunger Games ones. Those are the more popular ones with teens and their fandoms are, therefore, often swamped with fangirls. For Percy Jackson, Harry Potter and The Hunger Games, I have to abandon my sunglasses for a pair of tempered goggles. Very, very, occasionally a hazmat suit. And then I'll have to bring out every sharp object I can find. You can never know.
~Autumn -
...you're making me feel old. by
on 2013-10-02 23:38:00 UTC
Reply
And I'm not that old.
Oh well. Uni is great, everything else is great, let's leave it at that!
(Oh, hey, look, we're all Circle-Divers! Me, I tend to look in pretty much any fandom I know or am in that isn't RPF, since the PPC doesn't take those on...it can be very, uh, frustrating. Or unintentionally hilarious, such as the Hunger Games one I found recently that sidelined Katniss and Primrose Everdine. The Star Trek AOS one I was looking at earlier today wasn't remotely as fun, though--Jim's twin sister who stole Uhura's place and sent her off to die and didn't mourn her and stole Jim's lines and fell in love with Spock and randomly brought Uhura back out of nowhere with no explanation so that she could deliver one line (that could have gone to Jim...)...yeah, that wasn't so fun. It's fun to rant about, though...)
~DF -
You feel old? by
on 2013-10-03 17:54:00 UTC
Reply
If you feel old, then people like hS and I who are done with this school business should be feeling ancient!
Fortunately, I don't.
As for Autumn, welcome back! Being that I don't remember every detail of every last newbie, allow me to ask: Do you have Permission? If so, then maybe a few sporkings are in order. I believe that I can count on one hand how many Lemmings fics the PPC has dealt with! That is a problem that needs to be rectified. -
As for hS . . . by
on 2013-10-04 16:08:00 UTC
Reply
He should be feeling ancient because when he joined the PPC, Autumn was the same age as hS's youngest child is now.
But then I'd have to feel ancient too, and I refuse. Do not go gentle into that good night! -
No, I don't have Permission. by
on 2013-10-04 04:07:00 UTC
Reply
Thank you for the welcome anyway! I sort of vowed not to get Permission until I've learned the ropes about two years later. But then I always break my vows, so I'm not sure when I plan to get it.
~Autumn -
Blast! by
on 2013-10-02 15:20:00 UTC
Reply
In case you were wondering about the other message, I was proof-reading my message when I accidentally clicked on the 'Post Message' button...causing the uncorrected version of my message to be posted. Ugh. My sincere apologies for the unintentional inconvenience caused.
~Autumn -
Welcome Back! by
on 2013-10-02 20:57:00 UTC
Reply
I remember. You gave me a wilver knife.
Young girls shouldn’t dive unsecured. Here, have an indestructible lifeline. -
Ooh...thanks! by
on 2013-10-03 08:27:00 UTC
Reply
I'm immortal now! I'm going to try jumping off a cliff! *Looks down from the cliff* Um...maybe not.
~Autumn -
*points and laughs* (nm) by
on 2013-10-02 16:58:00 UTC
Reply