I think the first one posted before I finished, sorry...

Subject: I think the first one posted before I finished, sorry...
Author: Tira
Posted on: 2015-08-07 18:16:00 UTC

Honestly, I am NOT the person you want to ask about this. I'm just in it for the story (and all the pretty guys and ladies), not the more mechanical side of things. All I can tell you is that her stat distribution means she'd be hard to use in Fate/Extra, but that's not really relevant to anything. Ahem. That said, my response is going to be from a storytelling standpoint, not a mechanical one.

Two A-Rank Noble Phantasms seem overpowered a bit, but then again, most Servants are. I really like the effect of the second one, though, I think it would make for a good, dramatic fight. The high collateral damage means that her Master would have to be fairly cold in order to do it. I can't imagine Kotomine hesitating to activate it... but even Kiritsugu might. The first one ties in well with Own's poetry and I'm going to sound incredibly uncultured saying this... but I think it might run into issues because of its thematic similarites when you consider both the plot of UBW and blackened Servants. I know the poem comes well before, but in context, it feels like a bit of a knock-off. On the other hand, if you spin the themes right, it could be very strong.

On a mechanical note, I do think the first one is probably too strong, because there's no time limit on the copies. So a clever Master could basically clone all the other Servants. In the interest of balance, I'd either make the clones only last for a given period of time, or have their stats be ranked down a level from the original. It would still be extremely powerful, but there'd be some limits. The other thing I would suggest is adding in some kind of drawback. Maybe the copies represent a major mana drain for Owen, or maybe they're not necessarily loyal to her, either.

Also, I'm not a huge fan of extraneous genderbends in the series itself. I think it works for Saber, but not every historical figure needs to have actually been a cute girl. More focus on actual historical women would be preferential, in my opinion. That said, I can hardly fault you for following canon.

If you want someone to do a more in-detail analysis, I'd suggest trying Beast's Lair. They have a lot of members who have much more expertise on this kind of thing. I'm definitely more of a casual fan.

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Anyone else playing Fate/Grand Order? by Tira on 2015-08-06 22:59:00 UTC Reply

I know there aren't a ton of Nasufans here, but maybe someone else has tried it? I can't comment on the story, since I can't read Japanese, but at least the gameplay is fun so far. My Friend Code is 691217704 if you want to add me.

I don't actually play F/go... by Desdendelle on 2015-08-06 23:57:00 UTC Reply

But some guys I know from TvTropes play it. I am excited to see all those new Servants, though.

The new Servants are cool by Tira on 2015-08-07 00:34:00 UTC Reply

So far, I'm liking Jing Ke surpisingly well. Eric Bloodaxe and Iskander are good, too, though they keep dying on me. Shielder's alright; she's a bit generic, though it is cute the way she calls you Senpai. I'm honestly surprised how much I like Kid!Iskander, actually. I was annoyed that they changed his character design so much (and probably to make him more appealing to fangirls), but even as a kid, the King of Bros is just too charismatic to resist.

I really wish I could read Japanese, going off the images I think Cu keeps hitting on Shielder maybe? There's a lot of him smirking and her blushing, at least. And the white-haired girl (Olga-Marie?) is angry a lot. That's about as much of the story as I can follow.

I do wish both that there was more characterization for the other Servants and that I could actually understand it. I find the idea of Waver being possessed by a Heroic Spirit to be very intriguing, but if he's just a random summon I don't think we'll actually get a story about it.

The one I really want is EMIYA, though. There was a stage where I fought him, but I think I just have to cross my fingers and hope I summon him. *sigh* ~~It's not like he's my LO or anything...~~

So, I'm no expert, buuuuuuuut... by Scapegrace on 2015-08-07 12:01:00 UTC Reply

I dimly remembered cooking up a fan Servant once upon a time, and I found her! It'd be interesting to see how well she holds up to actual series experts:-

---

Status:
Primary Class: Archer
Potential Classes: Caster
True Name: Winifred Owen
Gender: Female
Alignment: Lawful Good

Parameters:
Strength: D
Endurance: A+
Agility: D
Prana: B+
Luck: D+
Noble Phantasm: A

Class Skills:
Independent Action - B+
"There is no spirit that remains unbroken by war. Instead, they wander, as Owen now wanders. Alone, with only a pistol in her hand, she walks and walks, seeking the other side of a bridge in France, and finding none."

Details:
Move her into the sun—
Gently its touch awoke her once,
At home, whispering of fields unsown.
Always it woke her, even in France,
Until this morning and this snow.
If anything might rouse her now
The kind old sun will know.

Think how it wakes the seeds—
Woke, once, the clays of a cold star.
Are limbs so dear-achieved, are sides
Full-nerved,—still warm,—too hard to stir?
Was it for this the clay grew tall?
—O what made fatuous sunbeams toil
To break earth's sleep at all?
-- "Futility", Wilfred Owen (adapted for genderbend)

Personal Skills:
Battle Continuation: A
Eye For Art: B
Protection From Arrows (well, bullets): B+
Protection From Wind: A+
Territory Creation: C

Noble Phantasms:-

Strange Meeting
Song Of The Undone Years
Rank: A
Type: Anti-Unit... sort of
Range: 1-45
Targets: 1
Description:-
Target gains an exact copy of themselves that proceeds to attack them. The copy has all its stats of equal rank to the target, including any buffs - and the buffs will not fade over time. Additionally, the copy does bonus damage for each unit the target has killed during the battle.
--
I am the enemy you killed, my friend.
I knew you in this dark; for so you frowned
Yesterday through me as you jabbed and killed.
I parried; but my hands were loath and cold.
Let us sleep now . . .
-- "Strange Meeting", Wilfred Owen

Dulce Et Decorum Est
Obscene As Cancer
Rank: A+
Type: Anti-Army
Range: 1-500
Targets: Infinite
Description:-
Gas. Every gas. Chlorine, phosgene, mustard gas, sarin, and all the foul things that stain the air, all boil from the walking, waking terror of a wounded mind, burning through the lungs and hearts and weakened bodies. Protection from Wind offers some defence, but it almost certainly will not be enough. The gases take whom they may, and care not for whose side Owen is on. Does no direct damage, but applies a tiny DoT effect, stacking with every breath, that deals additional damage to people already wounded.
--
But someone still was yelling out and stumbling,
And flound'ring like a man in fire or lime...
Dim, through the misty panes and thick green light,
As under a green sea, I saw him drowning.

In all my dreams, before my helpless sight,
He plunges at me, guttering, choking, drowning.
-- "Dulce Et Decorum Est", Wilfred Owen

---

Is this OP? I tried to make the Noble Phantasms fairly interesting, but I'm not up enough on the Fate series outside of what I dredged up from the fan wiki. All input greatly appreciated. =]

I think the first one posted before I finished, sorry... by Tira on 2015-08-07 18:16:00 UTC Reply

Honestly, I am NOT the person you want to ask about this. I'm just in it for the story (and all the pretty guys and ladies), not the more mechanical side of things. All I can tell you is that her stat distribution means she'd be hard to use in Fate/Extra, but that's not really relevant to anything. Ahem. That said, my response is going to be from a storytelling standpoint, not a mechanical one.

Two A-Rank Noble Phantasms seem overpowered a bit, but then again, most Servants are. I really like the effect of the second one, though, I think it would make for a good, dramatic fight. The high collateral damage means that her Master would have to be fairly cold in order to do it. I can't imagine Kotomine hesitating to activate it... but even Kiritsugu might. The first one ties in well with Own's poetry and I'm going to sound incredibly uncultured saying this... but I think it might run into issues because of its thematic similarites when you consider both the plot of UBW and blackened Servants. I know the poem comes well before, but in context, it feels like a bit of a knock-off. On the other hand, if you spin the themes right, it could be very strong.

On a mechanical note, I do think the first one is probably too strong, because there's no time limit on the copies. So a clever Master could basically clone all the other Servants. In the interest of balance, I'd either make the clones only last for a given period of time, or have their stats be ranked down a level from the original. It would still be extremely powerful, but there'd be some limits. The other thing I would suggest is adding in some kind of drawback. Maybe the copies represent a major mana drain for Owen, or maybe they're not necessarily loyal to her, either.

Also, I'm not a huge fan of extraneous genderbends in the series itself. I think it works for Saber, but not every historical figure needs to have actually been a cute girl. More focus on actual historical women would be preferential, in my opinion. That said, I can hardly fault you for following canon.

If you want someone to do a more in-detail analysis, I'd suggest trying Beast's Lair. They have a lot of members who have much more expertise on this kind of thing. I'm definitely more of a casual fan.

Thanks for your help! =] by Scapegrace on 2015-08-07 18:49:00 UTC Reply

I should have made it clear that the clone dies as soon as the original Servant dies, and that she can only have one up at a time. The lowered stats makes more thematic sense too, so I'll amend the design accordingly. Also, you hit on the idea that the clones aren't loyal to Winifred - the only thing they know to do is attack their target, and this pursuit is single-minded and not noticeably subtle. After all, to quote Welcome To Night Vale, "They come in twos. You come in twos. You and you. Kill your double." I'm also considering the idea that it's a major mana drain, but the biggest change is going to be that the range will be drastically lowered - thus making it more of a last-ditch thing.

As for the genderbends, there was - originally - a reason for that. I was going to do a non-genderbent Servant version of Jessie Pope, a civilian poet who wrote motivational poems to get people to join up for World War One, and the person to whom Owen's Dulce Et Decorum Est was dedicated. Her skill set was planned around mass buffs and damage bonuses to friendly soldiers, y'know, support type skills.

Also she was gonna be the more villainously inclined of the two. Good powers =/= good people. =]

Ah, okay by Tira on 2015-08-07 19:09:00 UTC Reply

It makes a little more sense knowing that, and definitely seems more balanced. The idea of decreasing the range helps as well. Honestly, I think the two combined could make for a very powerful combo - even if the original defeats the copy, fighting them will delay them long enough for them to take a lot of damage from the gas. And I like the idea of two Servants who play off each other like that.

Now that I think about it, the whole clone idea does have the potential to get some really good reactions out of the canon characters. Saber has her own traumatic experiences with murderous clone versions, and I think the whole thing would hit just close enough to home for Archer that it'd seriously irritate him.

I genuinely hadn't thought of that. by Scapegrace on 2015-08-07 23:56:00 UTC Reply

While Jessie was going to be this Stepford Smiler kind of bright-and-shiny soldier-buffing figure, Winifred was always supposed to cut a very... grim figure. The key part of Strange Meeting is that the clone gets a small damage boost for each soldier the original has killed. In small engagements, it's not going to amount to much, but in a Zerg Rush scenario with a lot of expendable troops? The Servant had better start saying their prayers.

Which, y'know, it might actually work. This universe is deeply weird.

Anyway, I've signed up and, after some squatting and straining, have deposited a post on their board. Here's a link to it, if you want to read the updated version.

Hmm... by Tira on 2015-08-07 17:58:00 UTC Reply

Honestly, I am NOT the person you want to ask about this. I'm just in it for the story (and all the pretty guys and ladies), not the more mechanical side of things. All I can tell you is that her stat distribution means she'd be hard to use in Fate/Extra, but that's not really relevant to anything. Ahem. That said, my response is going to be from a storytelling standpoint, not a mechanical one.

Two A-Rank Noble Phantasms seem overpowered a bit, but then again, most Servants are. I really like the effect of the second one, though, I think it would make for a good, dramatic fight. The high collateral damage means that her Master would have to be fairly cold in order to do it. I can't imagine Kotomine hesitating to activate it

If you want someone to do a more in-detail analysis, I'd suggest trying Beast's Lair. They have a lot of members who take
html i s2g if u dont start behavin... >=[ (nm) by Scapegrace on 2015-08-07 12:02:00 UTC Reply