Past, Future, and Other

Subject: Past, Future, and Other
Author: Outhra
Posted on: 2013-07-21 20:49:00 UTC

I'd say it'd be best to not contradict or attempt to overwrite other people's work when possible, even when you are dealing with events that took/will take place in the past/future.

The PPC is essentially built on large groups of people working on a shared world with each other, and if each person says that they want to make their own timeline that nobody else can go into, that's limiting where that world can go. If there are new stories that can be told within the past or the future, making them work within an already-established timeline will make the past/future bigger and more detailed, while splitting each past/future into a dozen separate timelines is going to make everything mutually exclusive and deprive current and future writers of the fun of bringing together old details for new stories.

That said, I agree with you on your first section: I would like to see more done with events from the past, and not just the huge histories and world-altering events that have been seen in past-set stories before. I'm not saying doing so would be bad, and the stories dealing with world-altering past events I read have been quite good, but the small things can be just as interesting as the big things, or could themselves seem just as important as the big things, if set up in the right way.

People don't have to rehash old stories or retcon out details just to set something in the same time period or multiverse as other works. Yes, people should add new points to make their stories their own and not rely on pre-existing ones, but they don't need to do that to the extent that it makes it incompatible with anything or everything else that could be done with the setting by someone else. People shouldn't solve the problem of a setting in the PPC's space-time only being used by one person by creating a large amount of one-person-only-settings.

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A fistful of small PPC plugs. by Huinesoron on 2013-07-17 14:44:00 UTC Reply

First up, I've stuck the revised version of my entry to the Writing Challenge into The End of the Beginning. It takes place... oh, sometime now-ish.

Unexpected

Secondly, I've expanded the summary 'Origins' story I wrote back in, er, 2004. I took it down from the internet a few years, but I've now reposted it. Note that this is in no way the full story - it's a summary, because we don't have one at the moment, and knowing the key details might be useful for someone.

Origins: A Summary

(Note that the writing style is a bit mismatched: the early parts are still the original, but everything about the Civil War and the Cascade is added. Also note that this is still the 'as reconstructed by Agent Dafydd from whatever he overheard' version - he may well have things wrong)

Third and finally, an actual new story! It's been in the works since The End of the Beginning was planned, but I think it's finally time to publish it. Dating from all the way back in 2006 HST:

Ever After

(It took so long to write because it was originally supposed to contain Dafydd and Constance's wedding. But, honestly? That's not a story I have any interest in writing)

hS

Fun reads as always by Ekyl on 2013-07-18 22:37:00 UTC Reply

Nice seeing the summary back too, I'll try to get back on writing that story eventually...

Also, yay for Ever After finally being up! Are there plans for any more EotB stuff or is it done now?

The End of the Beginning is always ongoing. by Huinesoron on 2013-07-19 11:14:00 UTC Reply

It's essentially a repository for any non-mission-related stories I write about the families. It tends to be just the 'present' I update, though.

As to Origins... okay: I've just (as in yesterday) found a framing that allows me to tell the parts of the story I want to tell. I'm working on my version of 'the complete Origins' now.

However, I'm deliberately leaving a lot of things vague, so as not to stop you writing yours. The Cascade and Civil War will be in there, but I won't be using any of the named characters you came up with - I'll just be leaving it, as I say, vague and undefined. And in general, the whole story will be suffering from 'unreliable (and occasionally outright lying) narrator syndrome'.

There is definitely still a place for your version, and you are free to keep writing it, with two caveats:

1/ Since there will be a 'Huinesoron's Origins', it'd be good if you could change the title of yours. Otherwise it could get confusing. I plan to at some point break up the Wiki article into three - 'Origin of the Plants', 'Origin of the PPC', and 'Origin (planet)'.

2/ You'll need to find somewhere else to host it. For what I hope are obvious reasons, I prefer to put my own stories up on my site where possible.

The history of the PPC is not my personal playground. Anyone is allowed to write about it, and write anything they want. That point has been made recently about the future (both Phobos and the Irish Samurai have written 'future-AUs' of late), but I don't think people have quite realised it about the past. The PPC, past, present and future, is an open book: anyone (with Permission) can write in it, whether they want to add to, update, or outright contradict what's already there.

hS

Concerning the past of the PPC by the Irish Samurai on 2013-07-21 14:05:00 UTC Reply

I agree with you about that 'personal playground' comment - that certainly shouldn't be the case. However there are two points that I would like to raise (not with you specifically, just about this topic in general, and this seems like the best place to do it).

Firstly, you'll probably find that stuff set in the future is more obviously speculative, simply because it hasn't happened yet. Whereas stuff set in the past is possibly more likely to be considered the definitive article on what happened back then. Having some more stuff be set in the past, particularly if they offer alternative viewpoints/perspectives/interpretations/events, would probably help make the point that the past is just as much up for grabs as the future is.

Secondly, you've said that 'The PPC, past, present and future, is an open book: anyone (with Permission) can write in it, whether they want to add to, update, or outright contradict what's already there.' (emphasis added) - something I happen to agree with in principle (with the caveat that just because you can do something, doesn't mean that you necessarily should, regarding the contradicting). But, one of our FAQs says 'Permission is given once, after which you're pretty much free to do what you like, provided it doesn't actually contradict previous work or isn't horribly overblown and self-serving.' (again, emphasis added).

Now if what you've said is true, and I believe that it is, then that wording in the FAQ isn't exactly the most helpful. I can certainly see that there are things that we wouldn't want contradicted - any works set in the same time period (and multiverse - we seem to be collecting extra ones) should all agree on who is in charge of which Department, etc. but if we're going to allow minor differences (something which would be helpful if we want to tell our own stories set in the past, rather than just rehashing the old ones) then maybe that could do with tweaking slightly.

Past, Future, and Other by Outhra on 2013-07-21 20:49:00 UTC Reply

I'd say it'd be best to not contradict or attempt to overwrite other people's work when possible, even when you are dealing with events that took/will take place in the past/future.

The PPC is essentially built on large groups of people working on a shared world with each other, and if each person says that they want to make their own timeline that nobody else can go into, that's limiting where that world can go. If there are new stories that can be told within the past or the future, making them work within an already-established timeline will make the past/future bigger and more detailed, while splitting each past/future into a dozen separate timelines is going to make everything mutually exclusive and deprive current and future writers of the fun of bringing together old details for new stories.

That said, I agree with you on your first section: I would like to see more done with events from the past, and not just the huge histories and world-altering events that have been seen in past-set stories before. I'm not saying doing so would be bad, and the stories dealing with world-altering past events I read have been quite good, but the small things can be just as interesting as the big things, or could themselves seem just as important as the big things, if set up in the right way.

People don't have to rehash old stories or retcon out details just to set something in the same time period or multiverse as other works. Yes, people should add new points to make their stories their own and not rely on pre-existing ones, but they don't need to do that to the extent that it makes it incompatible with anything or everything else that could be done with the setting by someone else. People shouldn't solve the problem of a setting in the PPC's space-time only being used by one person by creating a large amount of one-person-only-settings.

Guess I can't blame anyone but myself. by Ekyl on 2013-07-19 14:21:00 UTC Reply

Is there really a point in having two (apparently) mutually-exclusive origin stories kicking around?

I don't know where you got 'mutually-exclusive' from. by Huinesoron on 2013-07-19 15:08:00 UTC Reply

That's sort of exactly not what I'm doing. And yes, there is, if you want to delve into the interpersonal and political - and wartime - aspects of the Civil War and Fall of Origin. I intend to leave those mostly unwritten, taking just enough to carry the story through.

hS

I'll see what I can do, try to work around what you do. by Ekyl on 2013-07-19 15:43:00 UTC Reply

"Origins side stories" or something? I'll figure something out when my offline life settles down enough to allow any energy to be put into writing. I don't have anywhere to host anything except gdocs, which might do. We can put our heads together on what goes where privately if you like, so it's not all over the Board.

Oh, you are in charge of the Origins project now? by Outhra on 2013-07-18 23:47:00 UTC Reply

Have you written any chapters in story form yet? The summary is nice, and it provides more information at least, but it would be nice to see more of it as a narrative. I've been interested in the Origins project for a while now, partially because it has so much free space to tell its story in, even after the new summary described the basic sequence of events, and I'd enjoy seeing more of it.

Have been for like three years. by Ekyl on 2013-07-19 10:40:00 UTC Reply

In that time I've only completed the prologue, but I'm working on subsequent chapters and I've plotted out a lot of the story with hS. We were actually talking about bringing in another beta sometime for a fresh set of eyes since we're both a little too close to the project, if you'd be interested.

May I have permission to borrow an idea? by Ugolino on 2013-07-23 09:51:00 UTC Reply

I was told you were the one to ask if I was considering using the tidbit about "EPC Agents might have crossed over into the PPC" in a story.

Send me an email? by Ekyl on 2013-07-23 18:15:00 UTC Reply

Just 'cause I'm not 100% what you're talking about and think we could do with putting heads together privately.

Will do! (nm) by Ugolino on 2013-07-24 09:15:00 UTC Reply

Sure! by Outhra on 2013-07-21 19:27:00 UTC Reply

I would love to beta-read for this! Do you still have my e-mail address from when you e-mailed me before?

Yes, though now I question the point. by Ekyl on 2013-07-21 20:45:00 UTC Reply

I'll send stuff along to you when I have things to send.

Huh. by Kaitlyn on 2013-07-17 16:09:00 UTC Reply

Constance's dad was an author? Did I know that?

-Kaitlyn, space cadet

Oh dear, dear. by Huinesoron on 2013-07-17 16:28:00 UTC Reply

Since at least the first few lines of that were co-written, yes, you did. You decided it.

hS

(Wait, space cadet? Are you making references I don't get - again?)

Nope, I don't think that happened. by Kaitlyn on 2013-07-17 16:31:00 UTC Reply

I'm sure I would remember if it had. Maybe.

-Kaitlyn

PS: I don't know if it's a reference, so let's all pretend that it's an oblique reference to Major Tom. Just picture me floating 'round a tin can, that should convey the substance of the idiom.

Well, it happened a bit. by Huinesoron on 2013-07-17 16:39:00 UTC Reply

We took about half a year to write the first six lines, and then I took pity on you and suggested I'd do the rest. This was, er, a while ago. Probably 2008 or earlier.

hS

PS: FAAAAAR ABOVE THE MOOOOOOOOON