Subject: Actually, I found your post very useful. (nm)
Author:
Posted on: 2015-08-03 22:19:00 UTC
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Permission Request 3: The Re-Permission-ing by
on 2015-07-31 00:48:00 UTC
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Okay, so... I've done the prompts and the characters... these wonderful people who Beta'd them said it's fine and I'm good to apply... but I'm not sure... Mr. LaBeouf, should I try?
A'right... *inhale* here goes:
Agents' Profiles (recommended to view first, before going to the prompts)
Writing Samples
A MASSIVE "THANK YOU" GOES TO MY WONDERFUL BETAS: VOYD, IRISH SAMURAI, EDHELISTAR, AND SMF!
Chosen Badfic (I've switched it because the one I've picked before is still in-progress... I prefer finished stuff).
I'm gonna go to sleep now. I won't know the sentence for the next 7-8 hours... Let's hope Lady Luck is merciful tonight! -
*Puts a Hat on* by
on 2015-07-31 02:26:00 UTC
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Hoom, hoom.
Activity:Do I know you?I think I should stop using this joke.
PPC knowledge: I have not spotted any lore-related blunders.
Fic to spork: I don't know PJO. However, I asked Ix, and her response was
"NOPE
NOPE
ALL OF MY NOPE"
so I assume it's a very bad badfic.
Writing ability (creative): Characters are good, VJ is especially entertaining; furthermore, I don't remember seeing an agent that cares less about badfic in the way you described VJ, so kudos for originality. The prompts flow nicely and the jokes are good (except the penis one in the profile, that's a bit immature, IMHO).
Writing ability (technical): Can I get a creaky door? No? Oh well.
-Your SPaG is still sub-par. There are tense shifts, missing words, missing plurals, instances of weird word order and so on. I recommend either getting a beta that speaks English as a first language or getting someone like Hieronymus Graubart (our resident Greybeard is an awesome beta — HG, you get this shiny medal!), because your current betas did not catch those errors.
-Your treatment of vulgarity confuses me. On one hand, you basically make a penis joke in Venus' profile. On the other hand, you censor 'sh*t'. And on the other other hand, shoving sticks up someone's arse is totally fine...? Only censoring some of the profanity is really weird and not terribly consistent, either. You need to choose one way and stick with it.
-There is a possible canon breach in your second prompt; to wit, William sends Greyback to Azkaban. That's fanon; the only time he could have been in Azkaban is post-Battle of Hogwarts, and there is no certain information about that time, so he might be dead, or on the run, or something.
So: while you have shown improvement in the characters department, your technical writing still requires work. I'm sorry, but Permission Denied. -
I probably shouldn't do this... by
on 2015-07-31 06:31:00 UTC
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But I'm gonna defend it a little bit.
- From what I know, Voyd is an American and Irish is... well, Irish, so I would assume they speak English as their first language.
- I'm sorry, could you show me the part where I censored something? Because, honestly, I've re-read both prompts twice and honestly did not see any moment of censorship. If you're talking about "Diable", it'd be as much a swearword as saying "Hell", and that wasn't even done to censor it.
- ...Okay, I got nothing here. I got confused by the 1996 massive Azkaban breakout. You are right - there are no records of Greyback confirmed behind bars. -
Des is right. by
on 2015-07-31 07:08:00 UTC
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Your SPaG needs work.
I mean absolutely no offense to anyone when I say this, but Voyd's strength as a beta seems to be in story flow, and Irish, if his Red Dwarf mission was anything to judge by, isn't the best SPaG beta, either. My apologies to both of you, I don't mean that to be rude. I'm stating a fact based on what I have seen. The other two betas I haven't interacted with enough to know how well they work (SMF has beta'd for me a few times but s/he's usually a latecomer, so there aren't as many mistakes to catch and I have no idea how s/he'd fare in an unbeta'd piece, and I don't believe I've ever worked with Edhelistar, but I have noticed his SPaG is a bit shaky at times). Again, I mean absolutely no offense, I am just pointing out my observations. I apologize in advance if I upset anyone.
I'm not so sure if the word 'censorship' is totally correct, since you said 'beating the hay out of each other' rather than 'beating the sh*t out of each other', and considering you had no problem saying 'arse' later, it jumped out as odd. I don't believe there's really a term for this in English other than Bowlderization.
And it's not just the SPaG; word order also gave me some 'huh?' moments, such as "What's the movie?" he asked his partner, who was clearly enjoying the picture, with her legs stretched on the Console, and multiple bottles of soda on the floor. The order makes it sound like William is addressing his partner and the bottles of soda.
Another thing I noticed was improper dialogue tags. For example: "Nice," VJ grinned, looking at the bowl. From the comma placement, it leads me to assume she's grinning her lines, rather than saying them while grinning. You can sigh, you can laugh, you can yell, or you can say lines, but you can't grin lines, shrug lines, et cetera et cetera.
And, um, even in the 1996 mass breakout, Greyback wasn't one of the escapees. The ones that broke out were, Dolohov, Mulciber, Rookwood, the three Lestranges, Travers, and three unnamed Death Eaters. (That right there should have been a clue; Greyback was allowed to wear Death Eater robes but not take the Dark Mark because he wasn't up to Voldemort's hiring standards.)
I really shouldn't be having to back Des up because when a PG says Permission granted/denied, the other PGs trust their judgement because we tend to know what we're doing. But for the record, I agree: everything looks fine, save for the technical aspect of your writing. -
I'm not saying he's wrong. by
on 2015-07-31 07:37:00 UTC
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He clearly knows his shit (no censorship) since he was made a PG. I probably should've point that out
THIS IS NOT, BY ANY CHANCE, ME RANTING OR WHINING. I JUST NEEDED A MORE CLEAR EXPLANATION.
I have to comments about my SPaG, since I know it's far from good. I was just addressing the "English as a first language" part because, as much as it sounds rude, I prefer English natives Beta-ing things.
OH! Oh, THAT'S what he meant? Okay, I haven't even realize it was the "beating the hay" thing. Wow, I've never intended it to be any sort of substitution for a heavier word.
Ghh... here's the thing - in Poland we write our dialogues in a different manner. A negative transfer, I've mentioned couple of pages back: This sentence would've make perfect sense in Polish, this is why it got stuck in my head as "correct".
And yes, I've previously admitted my mistake with the Azkaban thing. -
A clear explanation? by
on 2015-07-31 21:40:00 UTC
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Obviously I can't speak for Desdendelle, but if you want an explanation of the problems with your SPaG, here are the mistakes I noticed. I've no idea which (if any) of these are the ones that bothered Des, but it might give you some idea of where to start fixing things.
William's profile
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Like all warlocks from the continuum, he has a mark - a unique body trait, which identifies him as a non-human
Either replace the dash with a comma, or the comma with a dash. -
The only times he is not, is when shocked, thinking deeply, or embarrassed.
Lose the first comma. Also replace "is when" with "are when" because "times" is plural. -
He was born with ivory white skin, but it didn't raise a lot of suspicion - people tend to think he may be of weak condition
Should be "people tended to think he was of weak condition". You might also want to replace "of weak condition" with something less clinical-sounding and more suited to the melodramatic Victorian context, such as "a sickly child". -
At that time, his other warlock mark has manifested and with it - his magic.
Should be "manifested", not "has manifested". Also, there should be a dash before "with it". -
It started small; cutlery moving on the table, plumes of smoke and sparks coming from his fingertips, toys and small objects vanishing and reappearing in different places, etc.
Use a colon to start a list, not a semicolon.
However, you might want to think about using semicolons instead of commas in this list. I know some people don't like semicolons used this way, but at present the list looks like it might be saying the sparks came from his fingertips and also from toys and from the vanishing and reappearing small objects.
The alternative is to break the long list up into smaller sentences: "It started small. Cutlery moved on the table. Plumes of smoke and sparks came from his fingertips. Toys and small objects vanished and reappeared in different places." This has the added advantage that the small sentences help to convey the smallness of how it started. A big big list doesn't look small to the reader. -
the neighbours started gossiping about their family being cursed and condemned
Are you sure "condemned" is the word you want? -
She didn't know the true identity of the child's father but she believed the Lord and His teachings will absolve the boy of all that is wrong with him.
Should be "His teachings would absolve the boy of all that was wrong with him." It's in our past, even if it was in her present or future. -
When William ceased aging, as every warlock does eventually, he decided to travel the continent
Not a SPaG issue, but why only the continent? This was the 1890s, when the British Empire was at its height. Why wouldn't he visit India or Africa as well? -
Because of his demon blood, he is able to generate energy using his own stamina (or life force, if the spell is more powerful) in order to reshape reality. Because of his demon blood he is able to harness energy from his surroundings, and can use this with his own stamina (or life force, if the spell is more powerful) in order to reshape reality.
Duplicate sentence. -
running water, and holy water, works best
Should be "running water and holy water work best". -
and there is only a handful of warlocks who can do it.
Replace "is" with "are" unless you mean that there is literally a hand that is full of warlocks.
VJ's profile
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Venus does not actually hate her name, it's the attention it brings her that's extremely annoying.
Either replace the comma with a semicolon, or start a new sentence. -
She is a very playful individual, and enjoys teasing her friends, such as when mocking her partner about his age, making provocative comments which make some people wonder if she’s related to Luxury, or having frequent "Trivia Wars" with William to determine who knows canon worlds better.
Another long list sentence. Once again it might work better if broken into smaller pieces. -
Later, her love for literature was so strong, she has decided to abandon her college life
Lose the "has". -
This led to a misunderstanding with her parents, which made Venus run away and find shelter in a nearby forest.
Not a SPaG issue, but didn't she have any friends she could stay with? -
At first, VJ was confused and almost fainted when she learned the Organization can visit her favourite stories at any time.
The confusion, the almost-fainting, and the learning were all the first thing that happened? Change the order of the sentence to something like, "VJ was confused at first, but then she almost fainted when she learned the Organization could visit her favourite stories at any time."
Also replace "can" with "could", because what excited her was the fact the Organization already had the ability to do it in her present (i.e. our past). Yes, it also can also do it in our present (i.e. an unspecified point in her future) but this wasn't relevant to her almost fainting. -
Despite the majority of spies hating searching for badfics, reading and classifying them - VJ was having the time of her life.
That dash looks clumsy. So does the use of "hating" in one grammatical context immediately followed by other "-ing" words in another, totally different, grammatical context.
Anyway, think about rewriting the sentence to something like, "Even though the majority of spies hated searching for, reading, and classifying badfics, VJ was having the time of her life." -
She had fun browsing through the Pit and other places, in order to find the abominations of literature. It was also there when, after her first paycheck, she bought a worn-out coat from the General Store.
I'm not sure what "It" refers to in this context. The last single noun mentioned was the Pit. Was the FFN website really in the General Store with her when she bought the coat? -
Since that time, she would wear the coat everywhere she could.
Replace "she would wear" with "she wore" since even though that's our past-stretching-into-our-present and her present-stretching-into-her-future, it still has its roots in our past and her present, so that's what counts. (Sometimes I think English tenses were designed by Dr Dan Streetmentioner!) -
she requested a transfer to the Department of Mary Sues. While working for the DoI, this was the Department she was reporting badfics to the most.
Replace "this" with "that", because it looks like she was reporting badfics to the DoI while working there.
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Like all warlocks from the continuum, he has a mark - a unique body trait, which identifies him as a non-human
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Hey, did this post before made me look like an ****** again? by
on 2015-07-31 22:33:00 UTC
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Because seriously, it is not what I'm aiming for. I did not want Des to point out every single mistake I've made. I did not want him to re-think his decision because he obviously knows better than me. I did not mean to sound like a pretentious **** who got all whiny because he was denied.
#1 - I'm gonna leave the issue of SPaG because I know I fail at this. Even after 4 Betas it is still not good but here's the thing - I DON'T KNOW WHO IS A GOOD BETA HERE. In my opinion, these guys did a fantastic job and I thank them for their patience... again... from the bottom of me heart.
#2 - The matter of vulgarity. I did not understand why was there a problem with this at all, until Ixi pointed out the sentence in question. I've got my explanation, thank you very much.
#3 - Greyback in Azkaban. I've already admitted my mistake in this part. Twice.
tl;dr
I did not fully understand some of the issues Des had with my writing but I also didn't neglect them and pretend he was wrong. Please, understand. -
Don't worry. My post made me look like an insensitive jerk (nm) by
on 2015-08-02 13:52:00 UTC
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Actually, I found your post very useful. (nm) by
on 2015-08-03 22:19:00 UTC
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I didn't think so. by
on 2015-08-01 19:03:00 UTC
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I mean, outsider perspective here since I wasn't involved in this thread, but I do think most of us can tell the difference between "How DARE you say no, I don't think any of your criticisms are valid!!!" (Which I was afraid of briefly, when I saw your subject heading) and "I'm not arguing with you, but can I get a little more help understanding your reasoning?"
I'd offer beta services, but I am notoriously awful at getting back to people for that sort of thing. -
Good betas. by
on 2015-07-31 22:48:00 UTC
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As Ix mentioned, HG is among the best SPaG betas in the community. I think it's because it's his second language - we native speakers don't get anywhere near as much focus on grammar in our schooling.
Oh, or you could ask me. I won't do you any good for plot or style, but ask me to proofread and I miss nothing. Ask hS, if you don't believe me. ;-) -
Good to know... by
on 2015-07-31 22:56:00 UTC
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Do you mind if I make a deal with you?
Hit me up on mattcipher94 with gmail tag. I'd like to keep in touch. -
Oh, ja, I'm gay for deals. by
on 2015-07-31 23:08:00 UTC
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(^If anyone gets that reference, I will be 0_o and :-D simultaneously)
So my main computer's out of commission right now, and what I'm using... well, appallingly sluggish doesn't cover it. Give me a week, and if my laptop isn't back, I'll suffer through Yahoo on this thing (but hopefully I won't have to. Fingers crossed). And if you haven't heard from me within the week, feel free to bust out the torches and pitchforks.
(Also: souls are off limits. I don't bargain my soul. Just in case you're a yellow-eyed demon.) -
Again with the inappropriate language. by
on 2015-07-31 07:45:00 UTC
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If you want to swear in Permission prompts or missions, fine, but please keep the Board clean. Thanks.
Right, addressing paragraphs individually:
I'm sure Des didn't intend for it to come across as rude, but I can't speak for him. He also didn't learn English as his first language, and I know several other Boarders didn't as well (HG, who is one of the more coveted betas, speaks German as his first language) and their grammar is fine, so... actually, I'm not entirely sure where that comment came from. I doubt it was meant maliciously, though.
And alright, duly noted. It just kind of jumped out at me, like I said, because 'beating the sh*t' is just more commonly used.
Okay, just so you know how things are done in English. ;)
*rereads* Okay, gotcha. The way I interpreted it in the prompt, the agents sent him to Azkaban post-war, but in the post sent him to Azkaban because he was one of the breakouts. ...I should probably go to bed, it's 2:45 in the morning here and my brain is being silly. -
Oops, word order again by
on 2015-07-31 07:51:00 UTC
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The "rude" part wasn't about Des's comments, but the follow-up which says that I prefer English-native Betas. I doubt my bro Des would say anything hurtful on purpose :)