Sorry for the delayed response.

Subject: Sorry for the delayed response.
Author: JulyFlame
Posted on: 2015-07-17 17:54:00 UTC

Yeaaah, I'm going to say 'thank you' as far as your thoughts on the conclusion went, since it was the newest part and also thankfully the part given the least concrit.

My older stuff certainly suffered more from Talking Head syndrome and this one isn't excused from it, despite being finished this month. (If I could ever fit in the time, I'd go with editing everything I've written from the very beginning- and I've talked about it before, with Nesh!- but that'll likely never happen.)

The lack of interaction between Library and JF was on purpose, that said; as characters they don't mesh at all, and the lack is pretty much supposed to be a sharp contrast to the usual dynamic of Library and July, who foil each other well and even play off each other to allow for more interaction.

JF is me poking at the 'impulsive one' side of one of the usual agent pairing types and then cranking it up to eleven and breaking the knob off to see what happens when you let the 'id' go free and don't tone it down and make the other agent have to actually deal with it.

The formatting errors will certainly be fixed in this doc for when it gets posted on the Dreamwidth journal for posterity.

I'm glad you actually ended up liking the conclusion! I had one major break in writing this: I got stuck for actual years right before the scene changed to follow Remus and the Counts. Everything after that came together pretty much at once.

I'm also happy you enjoyed the interaction between agents and canons! I don't know if this has changed recently (due to being Out of It) but I know that involving and interacting with Canons is usually made a big deal and they're kept out of the loop even when it's happening in front of them, but Ron and Harry were for the most part IC beyond dealing and absolutely tolerating the Sues and I couldn't see those two not getting involved in the charge scene or not commenting on it while it was happening- especially Ron, since he's partial to himself, for some reason.

I am sorry that the final scene in HQ felt insubstantial to you; something I like doing with this spin-off is bookending by beginning in HQ and ending in HQ, not so much as a stopping point but because it gives me a way to set the characters up and then reset them for what comes next.

I'm glad you enjoyed it despite the problems you and Nesh noticed.

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'Mission: the terrible two' Complete! by JulyFlame on 2015-07-13 00:02:00 UTC Reply

It's been a very, very long time coming, but it's finally complete. Prior works in my spin-off can be found here, which is where I'm currently working on putting everything I've written. I wanted to finish this before I put everything else there.

This mission has been in the works since March 2008, and as a result is quite old! I owe many thanks to the various people who've beta read it for me, including but not limited to FractalDawn, Makari, Neshomeh, and now Desdendelle.

As a very short recap, Agent Library goes on a mission into the HP universe with her usual partner Agent July's avatar- known as JF- who was found in a badfic which July had made a couple years before joining the PPC herself. This mission is set in 2008.

Constructive criticism is much appreciated, as are any errors anyone manages to find. I also realize that this mission might come off on the dated side, which I only slightly apologize for, considering how old it is!

-July

My thoughts. by PoorCynic on 2015-07-16 08:52:00 UTC Reply

First off, it's good to see both you and your agents out and about again, so to speak. I've enjoyed your spinoff in the past and your characters have traditionally been very solid.

That being said, this story felt a little uneven to me. I thought the conclusion was quite good, but the bulk of the mission itself felt a bit lacking. I feel like part of that was due to long stretches of the story being very MST-like in structure. Badfic line, agent quip, badfic line, agent quip, and so on. As Nesh said in one of her posts, seeing inside their heads or getting a bit more description would have been good. I also wasn't crazy about the lack of significant interaction between Library and JF, but I can rationalize it as they're still getting used to one another in-universe.

I won't really get into the formatting stuff. Other people have already touched upon what I would have mentioned (the blending of badfic quotes with mission text and so on). I'm curious to see what it looks like on the Dreamwidth site.

The conclusion was pretty solid though, as I mentioned before. I feel like the story starts picking up once the agents start bumping off the various Sues. The level of interaction between the agents and the canonical characters feels good; I particularly enjoyed the bit where Ron says "Damn right!" after Library brings up the repeated bashing of him. The final scene following the mission felt a bit insubstantial in comparison. I personally would't have minded if the story had ended when they all portalled back to HQ.

I would say that I enjoyed this story, unevenness notwithstanding. I would argue that it could do with some tightening, but it definitely had its moments.

Sorry for the delayed response. by JulyFlame on 2015-07-17 17:54:00 UTC Reply

Yeaaah, I'm going to say 'thank you' as far as your thoughts on the conclusion went, since it was the newest part and also thankfully the part given the least concrit.

My older stuff certainly suffered more from Talking Head syndrome and this one isn't excused from it, despite being finished this month. (If I could ever fit in the time, I'd go with editing everything I've written from the very beginning- and I've talked about it before, with Nesh!- but that'll likely never happen.)

The lack of interaction between Library and JF was on purpose, that said; as characters they don't mesh at all, and the lack is pretty much supposed to be a sharp contrast to the usual dynamic of Library and July, who foil each other well and even play off each other to allow for more interaction.

JF is me poking at the 'impulsive one' side of one of the usual agent pairing types and then cranking it up to eleven and breaking the knob off to see what happens when you let the 'id' go free and don't tone it down and make the other agent have to actually deal with it.

The formatting errors will certainly be fixed in this doc for when it gets posted on the Dreamwidth journal for posterity.

I'm glad you actually ended up liking the conclusion! I had one major break in writing this: I got stuck for actual years right before the scene changed to follow Remus and the Counts. Everything after that came together pretty much at once.

I'm also happy you enjoyed the interaction between agents and canons! I don't know if this has changed recently (due to being Out of It) but I know that involving and interacting with Canons is usually made a big deal and they're kept out of the loop even when it's happening in front of them, but Ron and Harry were for the most part IC beyond dealing and absolutely tolerating the Sues and I couldn't see those two not getting involved in the charge scene or not commenting on it while it was happening- especially Ron, since he's partial to himself, for some reason.

I am sorry that the final scene in HQ felt insubstantial to you; something I like doing with this spin-off is bookending by beginning in HQ and ending in HQ, not so much as a stopping point but because it gives me a way to set the characters up and then reset them for what comes next.

I'm glad you enjoyed it despite the problems you and Nesh noticed.

Yeah, theyÂ’re back. by Hieronymus Graubart on 2015-07-14 18:48:00 UTC Reply

I enjoyed reading your other missions back when I found the PPC, so I’m happy to see more of Library and JF. Specifically I liked the understated way the fairy was disposed of; and the charging of Patience and Lydia was glorious.

Alas, although the scene with Remus and the Counts was very well written, it felt wrong to me, because I couldn’t see anything other than a replacement in this Remus. His condition is heritable, he fursplodes when he is angry, he and his half-werewolve daughter eat raw meat, he leaves for America with an American half-vampire and her father – come on, he is obviously from Twilight!

Typos not already found by SMF:

JF‘s sneakers squeaked as she desperately tried once last time to stay out of the bathroom.
You probably meant "one last time".

She thought for a moment that Remus was going to attack her, but his grip on his land loosened,
and she felt relief flood when he asked, “How can I help?”
The grip was probably "on his wand".
Also, I feel like something may be missing in "she felt relief flood when he asked".

For this, the two for you are sentenced to death.“
You probably meant "the two of you".

Before Lydia was able to launch herself at Library, she was hit solidly in the chest by a large fireball and soon burned to a crisp. She twisted to look back.
I’m sure that you didn’t intend to say that Lydia "twisted to look back", but she was the last female person mentioned, and assuming that the previous "she" referred to Library only makes things worse.

Library left with Phillip, giving him a slightly less condensed run-down of the PPC before they arrived at the door to Personnel, where she left him, and then to the coffee place she had learned about from Denny.
Again, I feel like something may be missing in the last part of this sentence.

HG

Oh, goodness. by JulyFlame on 2015-07-15 00:54:00 UTC Reply

To be honest, I was anticipating with some concern what you'd have to say, because I've read the reviews you've given to other missions, and by and large they're truly excellent (and thorough when it comes to finding mistakes)! That said, I'm surprised you had read mine before and enjoyed them. I'm happy you enjoyed those two particular scenes; I had a clear idea of what to do with the fairy at the time, and once I figured out exactly what to do with the charging scene to not make the charge list be a giant paragraph I rolled with it.

I could have gone with that route regarding Remus (and Sirius as well, for that matter), but I had decided early on that all the characters given as canon characters were going to stay that way in the treatment of the fic in the mission because while they- Remus and Sirius especially!- were subject to being terribly OOC when the Sues were present, the fic was very determined to stay on track for OotP despite the presence of the Sues, especially whenever they weren't around.

And thank you for pointing those out! I've prodded at the document to fix those, which should be reflected in the published version shortly (and will be on the DW archive when I update that).

Well, this was a blast from the past. by Huinesoron on 2015-07-14 15:14:00 UTC Reply

'Blast' is moderately literal here: I made the mistake/commendable decision of reading through all of Library's previous missions to get her and July back in my head. Might've been a bad choice - it kind of burned me out before I reached the new one.

I went into this with a vague feeling I'd seen it before; I'd swear I remember a Library-JF mission. But this swiftly confirmed that I hadn't. ^_^ I liked the... I guess lack of interplay between JF and Library: JF in particular let everything Library said bounce right off her. I really felt for Library in that last line: "JF is terrible, and I truly mean terrible... er, when it comes to water." ;)

Not a whole lot to say, really; my head isn't in a very mission-reading place right now, but given the historic nature of this one, I couldn't let it pass without reading and commenting. Well done for finishing it!

hS

(PS: So, er, what was his surname? I don't get it.)

Whoops. by JulyFlame on 2015-07-15 00:42:00 UTC Reply

Burnout's never good. Though, hurrah for actually making it through?

Well, there is a later mission- the Zelda one- where JF shows up again briefly to be used in a situation that called for a great deal of fire- but not as a partner, no. I'm glad you liked that aspect, by the way! A lack of interacting on the same level is as distinctive as actual interaction, and since I started working on this way back when I've been worried about if JF would come off as far too annoying to the reader, due to JF being, well, JF, and Library being the POV character for the majority of the mission.

And I truly appreciate you taking the time to read it!

(Pettigrew- because out of all of the lot to have offspring a different age in this fic, of course it makes sense for it to be Peter Pettigrew to have a child who'd've had to have been either conceived or born while they were all still at Hogwarts.)

Yay, you finished it! by Neshomeh on 2015-07-13 22:56:00 UTC Reply

Concrit-wise, I feel like there was a lot of badfic and what the agents were doing was just kinda sketched in. Also... er, I think you missed a target. The Counts got burned up, and Library shot Patience, and Lydia was both shot and burned... but what happened to Sevena (which is an incredibly dumb and annoying name)? She seems to vanish before the agents fry the fairy.

I also noticed a few formatting errors and such, but if you're moving it to Dreamwidth, maybe they'll get fixed along the way, I dunno.

Anyway, I think the important thing here is that you finished this after so long. Congrats! {= D

~Neshomeh

It only took seven years! by JulyFlame on 2015-07-15 00:26:00 UTC Reply

I'm a bit curious- how you do feel there was a lot of badfic? I know the right ratio is tricky to get at best, but I didn't feel like I was especially just sketching them in (at least with how the interplay between JF and Library worked out).

As for Sevena.. oops, you did sort of get me there- I was going on the idea that she'd fade off with the rest of the fic- like Phillip would've done- since she showed up only for that one scene with no reminder that she existed after whatsoever, but I didn't articulate that at all.

And out of curiosity, what are the formatting errors you caught?

But yeah; for better or worse my priority here kind of was getting this finished, because of how long it'd been. I tried to make sure I wasn't throwing the towel in completely, but after so long...

It may not be actual quantity. by Neshomeh on 2015-07-15 17:29:00 UTC Reply

I think it probably has something to do with the way the quotes are often blended into your writing. My brain reads a single sentence or paragraph and doesn't distinguish which parts were in italics, so it seems like there's more badfic than there actually is.

As for sketching in, it's a couple of things. One, it seems like you let the badfic do a lot of the description for you, especially when it comes to the setting. Or maybe there just isn't much description, period. Meaning, I know the setting is Grimmauld Place, and sometimes there are curtains, and sometimes there's a table or a bed, and if the fic goes to a corridor there's a corridor, but that's about it. ... Which sounds dumb when I write it out, because it's not like I expect elaborate detail about everyday objects like a table. It's a table, it's got four legs and a top, there are chair legs and feet around the sides. But, when the agents are hiding behind the drapes, for instance, they spend some time there, and it might be good to know more about them. Are they black drapes? Are they heavy and ornate, or thin and filmy? Are there holes in them? Do they smell of mildew, mothballs, dust, something else? How well can the agents actually see out, or at all, for that matter? Is there a window behind them, or just the wall that Library smacks the Doxy into?

Two, there are long stretches of "couple lines of badfic - couple lines of agents reacting - line of badfic - line of agents reacting," etc. Most of what we get about the agents in those stretches is dialogue. There ARE points where you describe how they're positioned relative to each other and the setting, and interacting with each, which is good, but in general I had trouble connecting with them as physical beings in a physical environment. Which goes back to point one, I guess.

Also, we don't really get inside their heads much. Taking the drapes sequence as an example again, I know Library is annoyed and possibly in pain when the Doxy bites her because I see her teeth grinding and her eye twitching, but I guess I'd like to know more about what she's thinking in that moment. Also, I don't remember the effects of a Doxy bite and I'm assuming people who aren't Iximaz might not, either, so filling in the pain and whatever other effects she's experiencing would be a good way to flesh out that passage more. You don't say where she was bitten, either, which leaves a big blank spot in my mental image of the story.

Another thing missing from early in the mission is their disguises. JF complains that they're not students, and Library comments that the students wear Muggle clothes during the holidays, but you don't say how they're actually disguised. Did they use disguises at all, even?

So, all in all, there's not too much badfic, really—just not enough of what I'd like to know about the agents and what's happening to them.

Formatting errors:

1. "You can stop sounding off, we’ll go on the mission as soon as she’s clean and dressed. ”
2. Missing line break between the paragraphs beginning "I don‘t know why we couldn‘t be disguised as students" and "This ‘story’ doesn‘t take place anywhere near Hogwarts." There's also three backwards single-quotes in there. (This is why I don't use so-called smart quotes.)

3. Speaking of which: "considering the 'artist''s attention span"
4. Missing line break between “Yes.” and “Also the half-vampire isn’t stupid because she’s an American, but because she’s a half-vampire so can I charge for that too?” (Also, you want commas around "so can I charge for that".)

5. This may not actually be in error, but I noticed that some badfic passages only have single line-breaks between paragraphs?

6. Hyphens where there should be em dashes throughout. (You can teach Gdocs how to make em dashes from double hyphens by adding to its autocorrect, FYI.)

7. The following passages have extra first-line indentation:

“Yeah, I cou- hey, wait!”

The older agent suppressed a smile.
...

“Uh, I can cook a mean one?”

Library sighed. “Stakes, not steak.”

“Ohhh. ...Can I use fire instead?”

“I suppose.”
...

Snape asked her to at least try, [etc.]

He accepted, and the two left. [etc.]
...

Patience and her also uncanonical mother had a dramatic scene [etc.]
...

Library sighed, kicked out her leg, and was soon rewarded with an ‘Ow!’ when her heel met JF’s shoulder. “Stay there.”

“But but but but Snape just used a judo throw on her! And I wanna kill her!”
...

The entire post-mission sequence after the horizontal rule except these lines:

“Stay here and don’t set anything on fire.” She wasn’t entirely sure that JF would be able to manage even that, though.

“Fine,” and with that, JF immediately slouched into a chair.
... I think that's it.

I hope that's all helpful and not just upsetting. I do agree with the good things other people have said, btw, and above and beyond anything else, it's really nice to have you back in action. {= )

~Neshomeh

Yeaaaaah, that may be the case. by JulyFlame on 2015-07-17 17:33:00 UTC Reply

I was doing the blending to try and make the difference between mission and fic not quite as jarring, since the fic and everything going on within are taking place and is the location. As for the descriptions, I do get what you mean; I was mostly taking my cues from the badfic itself there for how much to go on, since that information wasn't there either, so that's certainly on me.

For the Talking Heads point: Again, duly noted.

Regarding the disguises: They didn't use disguises since the fic was set during the summer hols, which gave leeway. I apologise for not pointing that out.

I'll keep the noted formatting bits in mind for when I can access the document again. That's going to be in a few weeks, though.

And finally:

I will admit, that between yours and PC's (who I am going to respond to hopefully today as well) especially, it rather does sting; while I did ask for concrit I wasn't actually expecting to get taken apart to this extent.

On the other hand, more than half of this fic was written in 2008 itself, and it was finished with the aim of finishing it, rather than rewriting it to be as good as I could make it. (Which I realize isn't the greatest of things to do, but again, the goal was to just complete it so it'd be available and officially part of my spinoff's timeline.) I know I've grown plenty as both a writer and reader, and that was the main reason I had wanted to edit all my old stuff to try and bring it up to par. (Because after this, I'd be reluctant to see what would be said for concrit for the stuff that was 100% written in 2007 and 2008! Yikes!)

That said, I'm going to take the (mostly relative) comparative lack of criticism from the scene involving Remus onwards to heart (while using the rest to fix the technical issues) because everything from that point on was actually written this year.

-July, more than lightly singed

Formatting errors. by Hieronymus Graubart on 2015-07-15 16:49:00 UTC Reply

Neshomeh probably means the double-indentation of single-line paragraphs following other single-line paragraphs. Look at the parts of the mission
between "That is a terrible insult," and "Tut, tut, cousin,"
and between "How good are you with stakes?" and "They left behind a small glittery dusting"
and between "I'm not going!" and "Snape told his uncanonical sister to leave"
and then again in the post-mission part.

HG

This was a delight! by doctorlit on 2015-07-13 06:30:00 UTC Reply

I love the moments when it drops into JF's thought processes. It's like she sees the world in surreal pretentious badfic-o-vision, I love it!

I'm also rather glad we got a son-of-P* agent out of this mission. I like the original rather more than I perhaps ought to, and maybe Phillip can have some of his parent's nicer qualities.

I especially love every time you have a canon switching back into their proper personality. You make them feel so Rowling with just the few lines some of them have! Well done!

Heh. by JulyFlame on 2015-07-14 17:19:00 UTC Reply

Thank you.

JF is all impulse and in the moment and not one for thinking beyond that (or before, for that matter). And she did come from a not-so-well thought out fic herself, so I figured it made sense.

And given how many of them were swarming around, and the fact that he was the most relatively innocuous, I figured on snatching him in. I'm sure by now he's usable as a veteran agent. :P

And I'm glad you felt that way! I was trying to illustrate it, but wasn't sure how well I got it across, considering I didn't have much time to work with without making it too long- the parts with Lupin and then again right before the charge scene were what took the longest- years, without joking.

YAY FOR FIC! by SMF on 2015-07-13 01:01:00 UTC Reply

And I went and found some things as I read along:

"Library swallowed for a moment. “I’m not not sure Mrs. Weasley would be able to... pass as being Sirius, even in a costume.”" - There's an extra "not" there.

"relying on the Words was, Library was finding, beginning to prove to be a headache." - there's an extra space before "beginning".

"The fairy asked what was wrong, and after receiving permission, began to heal the scratches, putting" - same thing, this time before "putting".

"they followed the Sues as a safe distance" - should be "at".

"a story with a character who has Mary Sue-like traits can be internally consistent" - This time the extra spacing comes after "has".

"After all, an assassination wasn’t very distinct from murder, and in some cases wasn’t all, depending on the definition one chose" - I assume you meant "at all"? ^^

"here Lydia scowled, brushing her hair over said pointy years" - You meant "ears", right?

Thaaat's all, I think. The charging scene was hilarious, and the mission didn't seem dated or anything to me! XD

Aha! by JulyFlame on 2015-07-13 01:08:00 UTC Reply

Thank you for pointing out those bits! I'm on my phone at the moment so I could only fix the ones that weren't extra spaces (fine tuning like that is tricky), so hopefully the published doc will self update like it is supposed to.

I'm glad you enjoyed it.