Evil is kind of relative is it not?

On agent species by Voyd on 2015-07-08 01:24:00 UTC Reply

So. I know people don't like how I come up with ideas that don't have a purpose, but my brain runs on autopilot sometimes.

The end result of such random idea generation: the possibility of a Shroob agent.

For those not in the know, Shroobs are an Always Chaotic Evil race of mushroom aliens from Mario and Luigi: Partners in Time. They invade the Mushroom World, drain the life force of its inhabitants, and are generally bastard aliens. At first, you can't understand their language, but there's one phrase that's constantly repeated. You eventually learn that the word means "destroy."

I reached the conclusion that they're basically mushroom-shaped Daleks.

Now, for the sixty-four-thousand-dollar question: Are Iximaz, Darkotas and I correct in thinking that the Shroobs are impossible to make PPC agents out of? It's not because of power level; it's because they're evil.

As someone who plays Partners in Time... by eatpraylove on 2015-07-08 02:56:00 UTC Reply

I say "yes" to both the "mushroom-shaped Daleks" comment and your questions. The Shroobs are simply too inherently evil (and parasitic) to be reformed in any capacity.

Now, one could conceivably leave a Sue in Toadwood Forest to be transformed/drained of her Vim (or in the Vim Factory itself) if one was feeling particularly evil or the Sue was particularly annoying. I bet Sues make great starship fuel. >:)
Evil is kind of relative is it not? by [EvilAI]UBEROverlord on 2015-07-08 02:37:00 UTC Reply

Even if it is not, I do not necessarily see that as a barrier, it just might require some work to explain why a Shroob would want to be a PPC agent. And as far as I know there are also Dalek members of the PPC. So I see no reason why they would be categorically barred. As I said, it might take some work for it to make sense, but I see no reason why it would be impossible to do so. Merely improbable.

The thing about Shroobs is... by Voyd on 2015-07-08 02:49:00 UTC Reply

They're Omnicidal Maniacs, each and every one. And as for the Daleks, they've been given the Human Factor so that they have restraint. There is no such means of controlling a Shroob's bloodlust. Other than maybe having a partner that can browbeat them into submission, and even then, the Shroob would still be a ticking time bomb that's just pointed at the enemy.

That still does not mean its impossible by [EvilAI]UBEROverlord on 2015-07-08 02:59:00 UTC Reply

Just merely difficult. I was going to go with a Pure Blood True Sith Agent. Which is not a whole lot better, I just did not like the way I wrote the character so for now I have scrapped it. Hard yes, impossible, I do not think so.

You missed the point. by Voyd on 2015-07-08 03:20:00 UTC Reply

Shroobs are inherently evil. Every single one. No exceptions.

To be a Shroob is to be a vicious, omnicidal conqueror. You can't redeem them; they are hostile savages by nature. They literally drain the life force from their victims to fuel their ships. They transform the denizens of the Mushroom World into monsters.

Shroobs don't know friendship, or compassion, or happiness. They have one law, one rule, one ideology. One goal.

"DESTROY!"

I did not miss the point by [EvilAI]UBEROverlord on 2015-07-08 03:29:00 UTC Reply

I just do not think it is that absolute. Even excluding the human factor there have been Daleks that ended up being more than Daleks. Like Rusty or Dalek Sec (how successful that was is up for debate) I think it is possible to do. It would just be very difficult, but in writing, I do not believe anything is truly impossible.

Yes, but those Daleks were all modified in some way. by Iximaz on 2015-07-08 03:40:00 UTC Reply

None of them were 'pure' Dalek.

And, um, I'd have a very, very hard time swallowing a Pureblood Sith agent, and I really doubt I'd ever clear one in a Permission request. I'm sorry, but there's just no way that would work.

As Dakotas would like me to pass on, "Making an agent of certain races or proclivities (Shroobs, Sith, Burning Legion demons, what-have-you) isn't merely "hard", it's straight-up impossible. Going with the example of Shroobs: they have zero redeeming qualities. They kill, destroy, and consume. That's it. A Shroob agent would kill, destroy, and consume. If you change things to make it more "agent-friendly" (making it NOT want to kill, consume, or destroy), it simply wouldn't be a Shroob. It, quite honestly, would be a Sue/Stu in the body of a Shroob. Keeping it on a leash or otherwise subservient? No. Not going to work, sorry. The second anything changes, it WILL try to kill, destroy, and consume. It simply wouldn't be able to carry out a mission according to procedure."

Daleks have an in-universe precedent for why they can be compatible with non-Dalek races. None of the others do.

Two words: 'badfic character'. by Huinesoron on 2015-07-08 07:38:00 UTC Reply

Don't we have an intelligent, speaking Creeper wandering around? Y'know, the creatures whose sole purpose is to explode and kill you?

It really comes down to definitions. If you define Shroob as 'looks like a Shroob and was claimed to be one', you have no problems. If you define it as 'kills, destroys, and consumes, and that's it', then of course you can't make an agent out of them - you've just defined them to be impossible!

But GLaDOS is incapable of thinking of anything but herself, yet Evie is a viable agent. Maglor is incapable of not being obsessed with the Silmarils, yet Dafydd somehow works. The history of the PPC is full of characters who ought to be psychotically evil - we have an illithid! - but due to various reasons... aren't.

hS

(PS: That said, it'd be a terrible idea, because if your description is accurate, anything worth writing about Agent Shroob would be from the badfic, not from her species. So there's that.)

As Usual, Hs is Right. by sjosten on 2015-07-09 07:24:00 UTC Reply

Back when I got permission, the badfic that I grabbed as first mission* material was about the Grox, the homicidal, xenophobic, cyborg, galaxy-take-over-ing aliens that serve as Spore's antagonists. And there was at least one request for one of them to be recruited, because badfic can mess with characters enough that they can shake the Always Chaotic Evil nature of their species.

Either that, or half the Agents we've got are multidimensional Drizzt wannabes.

*I swear, I'm still writing that thing. It'll come, eventually. It's only been, what, a year and a half now?

Of course you are also more in the know than I am by [EvilAI]UBEROverlord on 2015-07-08 04:09:00 UTC Reply

So if you say it is not possible, then that seems clear it is not. From a theoretical stand point, I see no reason why it is truly impossible. Of course that comes from the idea, that I think when you are writing nothing is impossible. Whether or not it will work, is a different question all together.
There were various reasons I scrapped that idea by [EvilAI]UBEROverlord on 2015-07-08 04:04:00 UTC Reply

I still do not think it would be impossible, merely impracticable. If someone were familiar enough, I think it could theoretically be done.

For the Sith example I was playing around with, this is what I came up with. Sith seek power, Sues appear to have universe altering abilities, this kind of power would be incredibly appealing to a Sith. Further as to working with others, if the partner were to be framed as a tool or slave even, then the Sith would be willing to work with them, provided it furthered the Sith's interest, acquiring the power of the Sues. Then you have a partner agent that can contend with the physical attributes for when the Sith goes off to, well be a Sith, so that he can be redirected. Of course this is entirely academic since I scrapped that entire pairing, because I frankly did not enjoy writing it.

The bottom line is, I think it is possible, just it would take a very intricate knowledge of at least one continuum and possibly another. I was thinking something along the lines of A Sidonian Blood Nematode. Of course it would require work to be a viable method, and it would become something different.

That was way bigger than I meant it to be... (nm) by Voyd on 2015-07-08 03:22:00 UTC Reply