Subject: Ah, thank you.
Author:
Posted on: 2015-05-14 22:32:00 UTC
Yeah, I don't like to read or hear profanity when at all possible. Thanks for the suggestion, though!
Subject: Ah, thank you.
Author:
Posted on: 2015-05-14 22:32:00 UTC
Yeah, I don't like to read or hear profanity when at all possible. Thanks for the suggestion, though!
(And I hope I'm not breaking any rule, unspoken or otherwise, by posting thrice in such a short time) Has there ever been a fic encountered, containing two OCs, in which one was perfectly healthy and the other a Mary Sue? And not in a way meant for laughs, like in "Fair Wanderer, Thou Makest Me Sicker," just a person writing a regular ole' fic?
It's just when people start up, say, multiple badfic threads that we need to bap them. ;)
Anyway, I don't know so much about finding well-rounded, 'healthy', characters in badfic, but you do occasionally find ones that are less horrible than the main Sue/Stu and they're generally either recruited or left to assimilate back into canon.
It pertains to Permission, which I would like to get someday, but obviously not today. So, it's clearly stated that one cannot write before obtaining said Permission, but I sort of assume that by 'write' it means 'write and publish.' Is it okay to write, say, from the 36 prompts before getting Permission, as long as you do it solely for you own practice and without spreading it across the internet? I'd like the experience. I wouldn't say no to being able to write a mission or two for myself, but for now I'll stick with the prompts, if that's permitted.
Practice makes perfect, after all! And just between you and me (heh), I was already polishing my Permission piece a few weeks before I asked. ;)
Cause, you know, I haven't started one of the prompts or anything.. nope, not me! Definitely not. Nuhuh.
Between you and me, I might do that too.. By the way, how long did you wait before asking for Permission? I know there's no set time period, but I'd like a ballparkish estimate if possible.
I showed up January 22 last year and got Permission February 28th, so it was a little over a month.
Don't be discouraged if you don't get Permission right away, though. Desdendelle tried, er, five times, I think, and now look at him, big scary PG. ;)
That seems fairly quick! I'll wait a while, familiarize myself with you lovely people. I think the Permission giving is a really smart idea, do you happen to know who thought of it? There's not a specific name mentioned, just that the article was assembled from the words of various Boarders.
Got it. I think JKR tried.. what was it, twelve different publishers before someone accepted The Philosopher's Stone? I can keep applying :)
Bet those publishers who rejected her are still kicking themselves. :P
Anyway, I think the original Permission system was basically 'ask Jay or Acacia' and later 'ask Miss Cam, Thalia Weaver, or GreyLadyBast'. The current Permission system was actually put in place almost immediately after I got Permission, so that's been going on since last year. I don't know what the middle stages were like, though.
Turning down Rowling.. whew. Poor guys.
Hmm, so not TOO long it's been around then. Yeah, those middling times would have been quite annoying. All transitions are hard halfway through.
The system in place now and the system in place when I asked were fairly similar. Only difference is, back then, you just submitted brief bios and a short piece of writing. It could have been PPC related, it could have been fanfic, it could have been original fic, just so long as it wasn't in script format.
Quenya! Sindarin! Westron! Mordor! Fellowship! Orthanc! Tom Bombadil! Lembas! Morgoth! Silmarils! Preciousss!
Alright, hS, now that I got your attention, would you be so kind as to give us a history of the Permission system? Pretty please?
In the beginning was Eru, the One, that in Arda is called Iluvatar-
No, wait, wrong story.
When Jay and Acacia first wrote the PPC, I don't think they expected anyone else to want to write it - but people did! So they made some vague rules about how to do so. The idea of asking for permission came, I suspect, from Miss Cam and OFUM; there was a lot of crossover between the OFUM newsgroup and the early PPC community. When the PPC was pulled from FF.net, Miss Cam hosted their missions, and that site is where the Permission rules come from.
If you want to write your own spinoff, there are a very few rules we'd prefer you to follow. (Not compulsory, of course.)
Okay. Things you should and should not do when writing spinoffs. This is, generally, only "should".
1. Email Miss Cam or ask at the PPC Board for permission before posting. If you don't do this, at the very least tell us you've written one and send the link, so it can be linked in the Archive. Also if you don't get it beta'd, use a spellcheck.
2. If you're introducing a new Department, keep to the naming traditions. Department of Mary Sues, Department of Bad Slash, Department of Personnel, Department of Intelligence.. are you seeing a pattern? Good. Stick to it.
3. We've written some fun gadgets. Use them. This is, obviously, only a suggestion.
4. Another stylistic suggestion: Inside jokes are fun. Many jokes about Discworld, a few movies, and various random things we've seen online are made in the original PPC, the towel stuff in Clan of the Cactus made me giggle, it's fun.
5. Say, in your Author's Note, what fic you're entering. New spinoff writers need to know what has and hasn't been done. MSTers may be looking for material. Morbidly curious people like me may actually want to read the fics.
6. Pay attention to the Backstory. Try not to contradict.
Yeah, it's pretty simple, and the 'permission' can even be given retroactively!
As time passed, Jay and Acacia left. They appointed Miss Cam (already in place, you can see), GreyLadyBast, and Thalia Weaver as their official Permission Givers; I think that's where the title comes from. At this point the process was still pretty loose: I've recently described how I got permission to write DOGA.
But time kept on, well, passing. Someone (Bast?) told Leto Haven he could give out Permission as well, which was fine, but then Thalia left amidst drama, Cam stopped frequenting the Board, and Bast went off in a huff. Over that span of time, various other people were told they could hand out Permission - BeautyID, Bjam, NenyaQuende, Tough Cookie, Rohirric Monkey, and our very own still-around-somewhere PG, Araeph. When several of them left, they appointed a few more - TZA, Doc Filth.
But Permission was changing, as it got further and further from Jay and Acacia's authority. It was somewhere in that period that they started asking for a sample of your writing and a description of your agents; nothing particularly defined, but it was there. They also made a firm requirement that you ask on the Board, rather than by email; prior to that, email was quite common! It's how Kaitlyn got her Permission (from Thalia Weaver, I think).
In 2006 (yes, all of four years after the PPC began), we altered how we appointed PGs - we switched it over to elections. I was brought in on the very first election (and yes, I did protest and say I didn't want the job. They didn't listen), along with Techno-Dann. We've had another... five, I think, elections since, plus one extra-normal appointment (JulyFlame designated Cassie as her successor when she left; that's what she meant about her PG status being a bit vague).
How Permission is actually obtained has changed too, generally under two opposing influences. Neshomeh and Araeph have been a driving force in making things more strict - looking hard at SPG, requiring decent characters and a clear grasp of writing humour and the PPC. On the flip side, I've been trying to make the process easier - people were having to ask repeatedly because their writing sample wasn't humour, for instance, so I've worked us through several iterations of 'specific PPC writing sample'. The Random Prompts are the current version of that - people were previously mostly writing their agents' arrivals, and those all tend to come out the same.
For a long time we also had a hard limit of 'be here a month before you asked', but (in a rare moment of agreement) we did away with that on the basis that people were reading it as 'on the 32nd day you're on the Board, you MUST ask for Permission, and you WILL receive it'. Yeah.
So what's the future of Permission? Personally, and I know Nesh disagrees, I want to do away with agent profiles. I want a Permission Request to consist of nothing more than a piece of writing with your agents in it; if I can't tell who they are from that, you need to rewrite it anyway. Actually, my ideal scenario would be for Permission to become PerMission - you write your first mission, and a PG says whether you need to go back and rework it. But that would be horrible for the people involved, so let's not do that. ;) Other ideas have included a sort of mirror of the Sib Houses - a PG with a few concerns, but not a 'total failure' scenario, can ask for a longer-term PPCer to take you under their writing wing until you've found your feet, granting you 'Permission under so-and-so' until they say you're good enough.
And that, at least, is how I remember it. Araeph wrote a post describing the early events slightly different; I know for a fact that she'd wrong about Leto, because the Board Archives include him giving out Permission before even Thalia had left! But she may be right about the rest.
[Vanishes in a cloud of pixels]
hS
The more I learn about the history of the PPC, the more I WANT to learn. So basically the process went from "Here's a few guidelines," to "We need a sample," to what it is today. Interesting. I can see why, as the community grew, it would become harder and harder to judge who could write missions and who could not. I think the current system is quite nice, but the alternate Sib Houses sound handy too. Anyway, thank you for the back story!
So I alert you with Harry Potter, Des (if I may use the nickname) is summoned via tea, and Huinesoron is flagged down with LotR and it's fellow bookses. Fascinating.
The way I got Permission was actually pretty simple; I wrote a couple agent bios and a writing sample (mine was actually a prologue, creatively named "Introducing the Agents", but it wasn't required for the sample to be connected to the PPC) and found myself a badfic to spork. As Ixi mentioned, it took me four or five times - about a year - to get it.
Hmm.. a year.. How long should one wait before asking again? Oh, also, that reminds me; does one have to report a badfic before one sporks it? Because just doing a quick search on the Pit yields veritable bundles of badfic.
Just give it some time, revise your prompts, and you'll be fine, promise.
Anyway, no, you don't have to report a badfic before sporking it. If you did, I would've been spamming the Board with reporting threads. :P If you do see a fic you'd like to claim, even before getting Permission, you can do so on the Claimed Badfic page. Just make a note you don't have Permission yet when you claim.
Can do.
Good to know; the wiki wasn't quite clear, and I wanted to be sure. I'll take a look see. So far the DIC is looking interesting; do you have any agents in that one?
Please allow me a moment for some squeeing.
*SQUEES*
Arright, I'm back. But you should consider checking out her missions (though if you have a problem with swearing, stay away from "Ring Child"), especially "Harry Potter and the Dragonriders of Pern".
Thank you! I'd like to familiarize myself with proper DIC procedures, in case I decide to write for it. I used to think I'd like to write for the DMS, but.. I know they're not real people, but the thought killing Sues makes me a bit uncomfortable.
Yeah, I don't like to read or hear profanity when at all possible. Thanks for the suggestion, though!
I have an agent team there that you may want to check out! Just Google "Sarah Squall PPC", "Cupid Carmine PPC", or "Lapis Lazuli PPC" and take it from there. I have only four missions and an interlude with this team so far, but I think they should all be good clean fun for you! (If you don't mind the tickling content, ~fifty pages, and uncanonical-army-level craziness of the first one, that is. That was all me and I have no regrets. XD)
Thank you! Craziness is fine by me!
Alleb'd DEFINITELY have a problem with that one.
And also thanks to both of you for looking out for me :) It means a lot.
Though at least most of the swearing in that one comes from the badfic, not my agents.
... On the other hand, Nume speaks the Lord's name in vain all the time, so that might be a bigger issue for a serious Christian person? Not being one myself, I wouldn't know.
~Neshomeh, more of a secular humanist and also Unitarian Universalist, if anyone was wondering.
If I may ask, what's a Unitarian Universalist? I've never head the name before.
My best answer is to direct you to the Unitarian Universalist Association's website. (Scroll down past the large image to get to the actual content; I don't know why websites do that.) Especially check out the Seven Principles.
My second-best answer is that we're a religion without a creed; we believe that people deserve to be treated with a basic level of dignity even if we don't agree with them; we embrace people's differences rather than abhorring them; we take wisdom where we find it; we advocate responsible stewardship for the planet we share with each other and every living thing; and we basically just want everyone to get along and be good to one other. {= )
~Neshomeh
Because I'm a generally slow person (ask anybody who did a co-write with me about my writer's block), not because there's an arbitrary time limit between Permission tries.
I get it waaay too often. Thanks for the info! Like I said, I'd prefer to get mine sooner rather than later, and it's good to know it doesn't necessarily take that long.
Then again, I do like poking people with the Inspiration Stick, so.. ^^;
What would we classify a fic that starts out really horrible at first (eg Sues and Stues, and bad SPaG) and then gets gradually better? Would that still be badfic?
But I think that in most cases we won't spork it. I know that if I'd see a fic that starts terribad and becomes better over time, I'd contact the author, offer concrit, and suggest editing the beginning so it'll conform to the higher standards of the later part.
Good to know; I don't want to annoy anyone.
I can imagine it being very rare, and I wondered if the PPC had any official policy for it. I like inquiring after loopholes XD