Vulcans are so into not showing or being ruled by emotion...

Subject: Vulcans are so into not showing or being ruled by emotion...
Author: DawnFire
Posted on: 2013-02-13 16:18:00 UTC

...that they undergo Kolinar. Silly Sues.

I can see why Emotional!Spock* is one of your biggest pet peeves--he's painful to read. And I can see that...although I haven't actually met Seven of Nine yet.

I completely support Logic Class. It sounds like a good thing. And you have a *very* good point about the Spock/McCoy friendship. I mean, the bit where Spock leaves his...my brain is saying 'fea', but it's katra, right? Too much LotR/Silm today...we'll go with katra. As I was saying, the part where Spock leaves his katra in McCoy's mind before he dies would be a heck of a lot less meaningful if he came up to Bones, and cried, and said, "Doctor, I need you to keep my soul in your head for me! If you don't, I might never be able to come back! Do you hear me?? Never!!"
*coughs* I, uh, may have just spent about 20 minutes on Tumblr. But...hopefully you get my point.

I would go so far as to say that *anything* involving Spock is a lot less awesome when you make him emotional. Except for the episodes where he's supposed to be, of course. Although, again, those are awesome because they're done well, and because they don't happen all the time.

I am happily new to the woes and ways of ST badfic, and so have yet to meet any Vulcan/half-Vulcan Sues. If you want to toss a particularly bad one my way, though, I'd be happy to claim her. (And possibly give her to OFAS a la Andromielle Zinnia--she was a really bad one, I read the MST once and wanted to punch through the screen--assuming you want her).

(Who is T'Mel? A Vulcan from TNG? Voyager? Somewhere else...?)

Ah, well, ranting is fun. It's also easy to do. Fortunately, it's generally not *too* hard to stop...otherwise my posts would be about three times longer :)

Concert at OFAS! That sounds amazing! Can I come? Er, can an agent of mine come to OFAS on a brief vacation and sit grinning in the audience?

...Klingon opera. Now there's an...interesting thought.

~DawnFire

--

*I kind of feel like that should be Emotional!!Spock, just because of how unlikely it is.

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New here by Moonbather on 2013-02-05 16:33:00 UTC Reply

Hi all

Just joined having been pointed to the PPC by the Irish Samurai.

I'm a lawyer based in Birmingham UK, currently working on a novel and some Warhammer 40k short stories to be submitted to the Black Library (on which the Irish Samurai is kindly doing a preliminary beta read for me).

Re: New here by Blu on 2013-02-10 19:12:00 UTC Reply

Hello!
Hello! by Forestiger on 2013-02-07 01:33:00 UTC Reply

Welcome to the board! Have a glazed blueberry donut:D (seriously, if you have never had one, you should go to Krispy Kreme's and buy one right now ).
Hello, hello! by SeaTurtle on 2013-02-06 17:39:00 UTC Reply

Welcome to the Board! Have some of my world-famous hydrophobic water to commemorate the event. Now a superfluid!
Welcome! by Ivan the Not-so-Terrible on 2013-02-06 15:48:00 UTC Reply

Hello, lawyer-boarder! Welcome to the board! Have a piece of cake.
It's a truth.
First plover! (nm) by Tawaki on 2013-02-06 14:04:00 UTC Reply
Welcome! by Cassie on 2013-02-06 09:59:00 UTC Reply

Always good to see another Brit. :D I'm from the Lancashire area m'self. Have a bag of pebbles and a Random Shiny Object. I really hope you'll enjoy yourself here.
Good to have you a-Board! by doctorlit on 2013-02-06 05:22:00 UTC Reply

Greetings, new friend! Have a red herring and a blue chub!
Welcome! by KittyNoodles on 2013-02-06 05:00:00 UTC Reply

-raises right hand- I solemnly swear not to bombard you with Phoenix Wright jokes. Honest.

Anyway, welcome to the Board! I'm KittyNoodles, and as a welcome gift I have placed bleepnerds and an Odd Container* in your inventory!

*Odd Container
Item Level 1
[This container is perfectly spherical and appears to be crafted from glite-painted wood. Its weight shifts at random, and you have the feeling opening it may prove detrimental to your health.]
Chance on Opening: Receive one shower of confetti or one huggle - your choice.
Whoah, hey, a lawyer! by HerrWozzeck on 2013-02-06 03:47:00 UTC Reply

You don't happen to specialize in copyright law, do you? Or anything like that?

Anyway, welcome to the PPC! We love newbies here, so leave your sanity at the door, come in, and have a good time!

As a welcome gift, I'll give you some music by the incredible Gyorgy Ligeti: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZKaMuALMMY

Re: Whoah, hey, a lawyer! by Moonbather on 2013-02-06 08:56:00 UTC Reply

Sorry no, construction (it does mean I know how to bring buildings crashing down!)

Thanks!

Hello! by darklordaakmal on 2013-02-06 00:12:00 UTC Reply

What is the novel about? Is it adventure, love, horror, or Tolkienesque world-building? If you had already published it, let us know!

As for your gift, I offer you a nonexistent book, "How to Make Another Domesday Book for Your Petty Kingdoms", by Harold D. Zoidberg. Good for whacking tax dodgers back into the register. Oh, and here, have a bowl of tempoyak with it. Heats you up on a cold day.
Argh, a lawyer! RUN FOR YOUR LIVES! by the Irish Samurai on 2013-02-05 23:39:00 UTC Reply

Lawyers are those evil things that drink blood and only come out at night, right? Don't worry everyone, I've got enough garlic, crucifixes and holy water... hang on, am I getting lawyers mixed up with something else again...?

Good to see you on Board mate. I don't have any high grade Bleeprin to offer you, but I do have this replica of Crocea Mors: a sword that's been magically enchanted to mildly inconvenience anyone you stab with it.

OBJECTION! by SpecstacularSC on 2013-02-06 00:08:00 UTC Reply

(SC snacks suddenly appearing table)

Your testimony implies that even Phoenix Wright is evil!

...said SC, shortly before devouring a table... by SpecstacularSC on 2013-02-06 00:10:00 UTC Reply

Omgromnom spelling errors.

Re: ...said SC, shortly before devouring a table... by Silken Dawn on 2013-02-06 13:46:00 UTC Reply

I thought you were implying that snacks suddenly appeared on the table. I was rather disappointed.

You will soon learn... by SpecstacularSC on 2013-02-06 17:39:00 UTC Reply

...That nothing is ever that simple where I'm involved.

OBJECTION! by KittyNoodles on 2013-02-06 04:56:00 UTC Reply

That was... objectionable!

HOLD IT! by Riese on 2013-02-06 07:07:00 UTC Reply

"....Yes, Mr. Edgeworth?"

"Err...I was hoping I would come up with something to object to while I was objecting, Your Honor."

"....Overruled, then."

"...Yes, Your Honor..."

OBJECTION. by KittyNoodles on 2013-02-06 08:11:00 UTC Reply

Judge: P-Please refrain from using your court voice, Mr. von Karma.

Karma: I'm not apologizing.

((Which brings me to this: Listen to Manfred von Karma's objection. Is that how he tals all the time? Because if it is, I can see why Franziska's most common reaction to being startled is to beat the ever-loving heck out of someone - usually Gumshoe - with her whip. I can see it now: Waking up for school at the von Karma household...

Li'l Franziska: -still asleep-
Li'l Miles: -shaking Franziska- Franziska, wake up, it's--
Manfred: -from the opposite end of the house- FRANZISKA, WAKE UP, IT'S TIME TO GET READY FOR SCHOOL.
Li'l Franziska: -immediately wakes up and pounds Li'l Miles in a fit of still-mostly-asleep terror-
Li'l Miles: -is now in a coma-

...Why do I enjoy tormenting Edgeworth so much?))

:D by Riese on 2013-02-06 16:10:00 UTC Reply

von Karma is terrifying.

Unless you're Edgeworth, in which case D': by KittyNoodles on 2013-02-07 02:17:00 UTC Reply

Yes, yes he is. Which is probably why it's equal parts funny and horrifying when he whirls around and tries to beat the wall to death with his forehead.

I vote that we adjourn this session... by the Irish Samurai on 2013-02-06 00:28:00 UTC Reply

... while you finish your table. Looks like that might take a while.

Mind if I join you?

*om nom nom*

Huh, it tastes like chicken. Who'd have thought?

Somebody should make a PPC item out of that. by SpecstacularSC on 2013-02-06 19:22:00 UTC Reply

"Digestible Courtroom Furniture, for on-the-go Objections, and a quick lunch break on the side!"

I've already made BleepNerds, and that was by accident. I suppose it only adds to my track record that THIS popped into my head.

Welcome to our board! by World-Jumper on 2013-02-05 21:25:00 UTC Reply

I, for one, respect and even appreciate the work lawyers do and have to go though, so I don't mind them. May I ask, criminal, civil, or something else entirely? Part of me would find it humorous if a lawyer who worked predominantly on copyright cases wrote and sporked fanfiction. I'm not sure why, but it does.

Now, your gift! Hmm, you're a fan of Warhammer 40K, so therefore I will give you: A power fist! Good luck finding the armor that will make it work though...

(I was going to give you something from the original Warhammer fantasy game, but I knew nothing about either of the canons, so I just hopped onto the Warhamer 40K wiki, looked up weapons and grabbed what looked cool. Now, if we were talking WarCRAFT, that would be something else entirely.)

Re: Welcome to our board! by Moonbather on 2013-02-05 22:02:00 UTC Reply

Why thank you, I shall have my tech priest build it in to my terminator plate!

Construction law, generally contentious but some contract drafting as well. I guess you could say I like to build things and tear them apart! I used to do some IP work as well though!

You could also say... by the Irish Samurai on 2013-02-05 23:43:00 UTC Reply

... that I like to build things and tear them apart. But that's just because I spend so much of my time playing with Lego these days. I'm glad I'm getting so much use out of my Mechanical Engineering Degree!

Hi! by Lynne Lloyd on 2013-02-05 21:01:00 UTC Reply

Oh, my, a lawyer! Welcome, welcome. Here, have some Bleepolate-chip cookies! That warm,chewy, sweet and homemade taste that also dulls the painful memories of badfic!

Re: Hi! by Moonbather on 2013-02-05 22:03:00 UTC Reply

Thank you I shall have to get your recipe!

Re: New here by Silken Dawn on 2013-02-05 20:16:00 UTC Reply

Hello, Moonbather!
Welcome to the PPC! Here is a fluffy wambler to keep you company while you put in the long, lonely hours working on your novel.

Re: New here by Moonbather on 2013-02-05 22:03:00 UTC Reply

Thanks! Perfect to keep my two mini-moggets happy!

Welcome by SingingTheThunder on 2013-02-05 18:47:00 UTC Reply

Oh dear, a lawyer ... run for the hills!
Ahem, have a pair of bunny ears, the necessary accessory (try saying that five times fast) for insane lawyers all over TV Tropes.
Welcome. by Ellipsis Flood on 2013-02-05 17:20:00 UTC Reply

Have some awesome-laced cookies.

It's always good to have a lawyer around.
Fair welcome to you! by SpecstacularSC on 2013-02-05 17:06:00 UTC Reply

A british lawyer writing Warhammer 40K stuff?

OH, RIIIII~EEEEESE!

Anyhow, have a welcome gift from Teh Specs, on the American coast:

A Suspiciously Innocent Teddy Bear!

(Warning: may or may not be a larceny suspect.)

Also: being an spring novelist myself, I think it's cool that we're somewhat (not sure how much) in the same ballpark, as it were. What genre are you writing, if I might ask?

Books by Moonbather on 2013-02-05 17:14:00 UTC Reply

The book is a sci-fi novel. It's 2/3 done at the moment and I had intended it (maybe eventually) to be a new era for the Warhammer universe, i.e. the Dark Age of Technology, maybe circa M22-24. If the Black Library don't like the idea then it stands alone as well. Just working at the moment to beef up the explanation of how the science works in the book (thankfully I also have a chemistry degree and an interest in physics and astrophysics!)

The two short stories are Inquisition based.

Sounds cool. by SpecstacularSC on 2013-02-05 19:00:00 UTC Reply

Personally, if I do write sci-fi anything, I don't typically get much into the details, more out of a lack of ability than a lack of interest. Or, I leave said details purposely unexplained either for comedy's sake or something like, "well, we USED to know how it worked..."

Ergo, I typically write more fantasy stuff, myself. It's a lot easier when I have a completely blank slate to work from, I find.

Right now, I'm working on a series of novels called the Chronicles of Zeyr. It's... A rather dark series of fantasy novels detailing the final months of a dying world through the eyes of its last heroes, who everybody hates for various reasons.

Because I can't just write a pleasant story, nope.

Books by Moonbather on 2013-02-05 19:43:00 UTC Reply

Know what you mean, I'm in the middle of explains how starship shields work (which actually isn't so bad and how to provide food for a ship 10 miles long!

If you ever need someone to beta yours it sounds interesting so let me know!

Book recommendation by the Irish Samurai on 2013-02-07 22:01:00 UTC Reply

All this talk of lawyers and sci-fi has reminded me of a book series that I meant to tell you about. The 'JAG in space' series by John G. Hemry.

It's a fairly 'hard' military sci-fi setting, and the main character is the legal officer on a military spaceship. It's quite a different setting to most of the other stuff I read, there are no fleets, most of the time the ship is alone in space, or with only a couple of others around, and there are no frantic battles. The action mainly revolves around the main character as he deals with life aboard ship and the legal issues that come up: the court-martial of a captain that accidentally destroys a civilian vessel, acts of treason, sabotage and cover-ups.

I've never really been a fan of courtroom dramas on TV, but I actually found these really interesting, even though large portions of each book are taken up with the minutiae of the trial(s) in each case.

I think you should check them out.

I meant ASPIRING, darn it. (nm) by SpecstacularSC on 2013-02-05 17:07:00 UTC Reply

Emperor save us, another 40k fan! by Riese on 2013-02-05 17:01:00 UTC Reply

Welcome, welcome! Glad to have you a-Board, and Emperor bless you.
Welcome! by DawnFire on 2013-02-05 16:52:00 UTC Reply

Good Lord, a lawyer.*

--I mean, Welcome to the Board! Seems I'm the first to greet you...which is a bit unusual, but quite fun, so hi! I'm DawnFire. Glad to meet you. Have some Swiss Bleepolate, guaranteed to distract you with sugar while erasing horrific details!

I can't say I know anything about Warhammer (well, ok, I can *say* that I do, but it would be a complete and utter lie, so I won't bother).

Standard Questions:

Do you have other fandoms? What are they?

Do you plan on writing missions?

Best of luck with the novel! And again, welcome :)

~DawnFire

--

*I don't mean that it's a bad thing, this is just me being startled and blurting out the first thing that comes to mind

Yes a lawyer! by Moonbather on 2013-02-05 17:04:00 UTC Reply

I know I shouldn't admit to that sort of thing, but some of us have to be evil incarnate!*

Thanks, drugs are always good! Now I just need to source some high grade bleeprin. I've been reading a few badfics and managed a legendary badfic without excessive pain (it's probably all those stupid stupid statements I have to read from people who can't write or make a case or aaaaahhhhhhhhh! - Is it possible to write missions about legal documents? Somebody probably needs to, but I digress).

Standard Answers:

Warhammer and 40K are my main areas, I could do most of David Gemmell's works, Star Trek (except for TOS) LotR and Discworld. Otherwise I can happily read and learn more, so long as I get to punish the nasty badfic writers at the end of it!

I do plan on writing missions, but want to read a few more first and feel it out. I've read the Original Series and most of the Reorganisation. Think I'll move onto the Mary Sue Invasion or other PPC background next and go from there. I need to finish writing the short stories for the Black Library first as they are due for submission in April. I may need some beta readers in the near future for those (quick thanks to Irish Samurai who is already suffering through them).

Thanks! I'll likely need beta readers for that too in due course (again thanks to Irish Samurai for the first round read)!

Moon

* ah but you don't know just how bad it (or I) can be!

Welcome, fellow lawyer! by son_of_heaven176 on 2013-02-06 02:20:00 UTC Reply

Another lawyer? Nice. I myself am a(n aspiring) lawyer (I will receive my license on the 27th of this month). Yes, some of us have to be evil incarnate, don't we?

(Ever heard the joke about what God did after Creation week? On Day 8, God said, "Let there be Satan, so people don't blame everything on Me." On Day 9, God said, "Let there be lawyers, so people don't blame everything on Satan.")

Now, since you are a newbie, you need a gift! What to gift you with...? Have this replica magatama, guaranteed NOT to give you the ability to see Psyche-Locks. (Apologies in advance if the PW references go over your head.)

BTW, have you ever read anything from the Department of Technical Errors? That might be something up your alley, since we lawyers know how dangerous a technical error can be!
Star Trek? Someone say Star Trek? by hermione of vulcan on 2013-02-05 18:09:00 UTC Reply

And non-TOS Trek, too! Not that I don't like TOS, but it's rare to find someone who specifies that they're better versed in the others, the way I am. TNG and Voyager specifically, I've only just started DS9. Favorite series/characters/concepts/alien races/etc.?
Also, have a tribble.

Re: Star Trek? Someone say Star Trek? by Moonbather on 2013-02-05 19:49:00 UTC Reply

Yes Star Trek! I'd say my favourite is TNG, Picard is my kind of captain. Race wise I would probably go for the Borg, at least before they brought in the queen. A soleless race eating up everything before them! Kind of like necrons really!

Mine too! by hermione of vulcan on 2013-02-06 16:42:00 UTC Reply

TNG was kind of my first Star Trek series, because while I watched some TOS episodes (tribbles for the win!) to start, I kept catching reruns of TNG and therefore became more well-versed in it. Picard is my favorite captain, though I like Janeway too. But one cannot argue with the calm, tea-drinking European that survived torture, assimilation, and being stabbed through the heart. Picard is just awesome.

I don't know, I liked when the Borg Queen was brought in, because it gave a face to the enemy of the Borg, kind of like Locutus did. It made it very personal, especially with Voyager and Seven of Nine's character arc. You get implications that the Borg Queen is her mother, showing how the Borg basically raised her. (Seven is one of my favorite characters.)

I have a sudden urge to sing Queen now. I blame Good Omens. by DawnFire on 2013-02-05 17:51:00 UTC Reply

Now, I took a class in Canadian and International Law in high school. Does that make me evil too?

Can't help you with the high-grade stuff, I'm afraid--try Bad Slashers, they're more likely to have it.

Which legendary badfic? I normally get through that sort of thing by not reading it straight--usually I go for MSTs, missions, dramatic readings, or, in one hilarious case, a live-action trailer. Although I think I may have read--or at least, skimmed--C*l*b***n once. Or I may be remembering the horrific parts of an MST...who knows? Let's just agree that I have my insane moments.

I think it would depend on what the legal document is about. Er, possibly. Probably not. But it would be amusing to see an agent illegally going into one for a mission...(or you could always MST it, of course).

...I don't know anything about 40K, either...As for Star Trek, my main area of expertise IS TOS...but we're on better footing with LotR and Discworld, so it's all good :)

(Er, technically, you punish the Sues, not the writers. Important distinction)

Reading missions is definitely a good idea to execute before beginning to write. You seem to be doing pretty well so far, though remember to check out the actual missions (non-TOS)--they're fun, and definitely help to get a sense of how missions work. Also, good luck with the short stories! (*pats Irish Samurai*)

~DawnFire

Re: I have a sudden urge to sing Queen now. I blame Good Omens. by Moonbather on 2013-02-05 19:40:00 UTC Reply

It means you've seen the evil but are not of it!

You've named the legendary so I won't! I wanted to see how bad it could be!

May try that!

Random question, can a movie ever be so far from the book it's based on to be considered badfic or I automatically canon (say Peter Jackson's Hobbit for instance)?

Noted though it would be fun to see of Makes Things could build something to link the sue's suffering to the author!

Re: I have a sudden urge to sing Queen now. I blame Good Omens. by DawnFire on 2013-02-06 01:34:00 UTC Reply

Ah, good to know.

Good heavens, you read Celebrian? Wow. That's definitely among the worst.

Hm...if so, then I call the fourth PotC movie. It's so full of cliches and harking back to the first movie for jokes and sequences that it honestly looks like a mediocre fanfic come to life. I think, however, that I read an article on the wiki that said something along the lines of, even if an installment is really bad, and may not be considered part of the official canon by the fandom in general, it still does not classify as badfic. Although, I could be wrong.

You're welcome to suggest that, but it does tend to go against the general ideals (ideals? Not sure that's the word I want, but oh well) of the PPC, so I doubt it'll happen.

As for the Hobbit, I have yet to see it (unfortunately), but I had assumed it would be pretty close to the book, considering that there are going to be three movies?

~DawnFire

Canon is Canon, Badfic is Badfic. by hermione of vulcan on 2013-02-06 20:38:00 UTC Reply

The canon not being good doesn't make it badfic, and it is bad taste to spork it like you would a fanfic.
And about the Hobbit movie: go into it with an open mind. Be prepared for major deviations from the book. However, do not go in believing that it will be awful. I enjoyed it, and maybe you will too.
Re: I have a sudden urge to sing Queen now. I blame Good Omens. by Moonbather on 2013-02-06 08:40:00 UTC Reply

Yes, not enough bleeprin in the world....

I thought that was probably the case. I would still however like Makes Things to build something to allow agents to string Peter Jackson over a boiling pool of lemon juice and razor blades by his toe nails (actually I'll keep that for a Sue!).

I know, but it's a funny idea!

It is so far from the book that I barely recognised it. I'll admit it's been a few years since I've read the Hobbit, but I'm pretty sure the main antagonist of the movie didn't exist in the book! Also, not quite sure how they'll stretch it to three movies as they're already half to two thirds of the way through the plot after one (sorry don't want to give away too much as you haven't seen it!)

Moon

You do realize you're talking about a real person? by hermione of vulcan on 2013-02-06 21:03:00 UTC Reply

And torturing them. I know it was meant as a joke, but that was decidedly unfunny. I'd like to point you to the PPC Constitution, especially Section 1, Articles 2 and 3. They deal respectively with flaming (which you're doing to Peter Jackson) and which topics are unfunny (I think torture falls under that category). Please be mindful of that in the future. I know you're new.

By the way, I had just finished rereading the Hobbit before seeing the movie (literally, I finished it in the car on the way to the theater), and I enjoyed it. *ducks tomatoes* It's okay if you didn't enjoy it, but you're heavily implying that it's a bad thing that I do. That hurts.

Re: You do realize you're talking about a real person? by Moonbather on 2013-02-06 22:33:00 UTC Reply

I apologise. It was not intended to come across as flaming or to imply that anyone enjoying the movie was wrong/bad/or anything similar. I obviously took the joke one step too far. Once again my sincere apologies.

No hard feelings! by hermione of vulcan on 2013-02-07 16:34:00 UTC Reply

Just try to be more careful in the future. :)

Re: No hard feelings! by Moonbather on 2013-02-07 20:12:00 UTC Reply

I do sometimes get carried away! I shall watch it next time.

I hope you'll still beta my stories that will be up soon. A good scifi reader would be much valued

Sure! by hermione of vulcan on 2013-02-09 17:34:00 UTC Reply

I'll be glad to help!

Re: I have a sudden urge to sing Queen now. I blame Good Omens. by stripey_cat on 2013-02-06 13:52:00 UTC Reply

Ah, a fellow fan of PJ! I deal with it by maintaining that the film! and book!verses are two entirely seperate continua; and longing for the day I get a legitimate excuse to hit film!Denethor with a blunt instrument. Have you read the OFUM chapter where Evil!Denethor pays PJ a visit? It's cathartic.

Welcome to the Board, and be aware that if you ever go out on LOTR missions, the Flowers will assign you film!verse just to try you.

Re: I have a sudden urge to sing Queen now. I blame Good Omens. by Moonbather on 2013-02-06 15:26:00 UTC Reply

Maybe I should put together an assassin banned from LotR because he went mad after the Hobbit and had to be Neuralised!

Re: I have a sudden urge to sing Queen now. I blame Good Omens. by stripey_cat on 2013-02-06 17:09:00 UTC Reply

Once we're approved for missions, it'd be fun to write a pair going rogue and trying to exorcise the entire film continuum. (I've not seen The Hobbit yet as I always get a migraine in cinemas so I have to wait for either broadcast or DVD; but I've been told it's worse than the LOTR trilogy, which I think deserved legendary badfic status in their own right.) I fear they'd end up lynched by agents who lust after film!characters.

You too. by hermione of vulcan on 2013-02-06 21:13:00 UTC Reply

There will be no lynchings around here. I'll also point you to the PPC Constitution, especially Section 3, which discusses how murder is unfunny.
Also, calling the LOTR movies Legendary Badfic makes those of us who liked them (read: a lot of us) feel bad for doing so. And honestly, have you see The Lightning Thief movie? If you think LOTR is a bad book to movie adaptation...
On a lighter note, you can title your posts something different now that you're not talking about Queen or Good Omens.

Apologise by stripey_cat on 2013-02-10 13:15:00 UTC Reply

Sorry about the off-colour remarks (they were intended to be funny, and mostly at my expense, but obviously didn't come across like that - mea culpa).

The main frustration I have with the films is when characterisation bleeds into allegedly book!verse stories: it's quite hard to find the unadulterated continuum these days. And I'm afraid I sincerely count RoTK as the worst film I've ever seen. (I don't watch many films, which may explain that!) On the other hand, I don't expect anyone else to share my preferences: possibly we got so carried away because it's unusual to meet someone who shares (or voices) our opinions.

I've never even heard of The Lightening Thief. Is it so bad it's funny, or just straight-up bad?

*takes deep breath* by hermione of vulcan on 2013-02-10 19:43:00 UTC Reply

(Begin rant)
The Lightning Thief is the first book in the Percy Jackson and the Olympians series, which is about a troubled twelve-year-old boy living in New York City (Percy Jackson) who in very Harry Potter-esque fashion learns that he is a demigod out of ancient Greek mythology. He ends up going to a summer camp for other half-bloods, before being sent on a quest to the Underworld with his new friends Grover and Annabeth. Humor ensues as Percy discovers how Greek gods and monsters blend into modern American society. (For example, Medusa sells statuary) The other books show his other adventures, new monsters and gods, and threats to Mt. Olympus (which is on top of the Empire State Building). The series grew popular due to its humor, cleverness, and interesting characters. So they decided to make a movie.

And, of course, completely change the entire plot. Percy and his friends grow up as the series goes on, yet the movie begins with them being sixteen or seventeen. Older than twelve, at any rate. Much of the humor was taken out in favor of monster fight scenes, and Annabeth, originally a Hermione-ish character with a tough side, was made out to be simply a warrior girl, without any brainiac tendencies. They even broke Greek mythology canon by showing Persephone in the Underworld scenes, while the movie was set in the summer. A whole new plot element was introduced that didn't need to be, and there were whole scenes that didn't have any basis in the book. I'm fine with changes, it's when the changes have no basis in the original that I don't like them.
So, while I realize the LOTR books and movies have differences, I don't think any characterization was so far off as to nearly character replace someone. The essence of Percy Jackson was in its humor and characterization, and both of those things were thrown away for the sake of action.

(end rant) I highly recommend the books, though.

And actually, I agree that Return of the King wasn't that good. It seemed to me that they spent too long on action scenes and not enough time on scenes that mattered. The entire Faramir/Eowyn romance was cut, and so was "the hands of the king are the hands of a healer" scene - one of my favorites in the book. But in comparison to what they did to the Lightning Thief, the LOTR movies are wonderful.

Also a Percy Jackson fan by the Irish Samurai on 2013-02-11 22:25:00 UTC Reply

I actually saw the film first, so I thought it was pretty good. Then I read the books, and realised that they were much better.

The main difference I can remember between the book and the film was that, in the film, there was a character that was just too damn cool to not be evil. Seriously, I guessed the identity of the Lightning Thief pretty much the first time they came onscreen.

The book handled it a lot more subtly (and therefore better, in my opinion), to the extent that I was genuinely wondering if they changed the Thief's identity for the film.

I can understand some of the changes they made, aging the characters up may have just been about getting actors that could handle the action sequences (or just the shooting schedule - I would imagine that younger actors have more restrictions on the number of hours they can work, etc.). As for some of the other changes... yeah, not so much.

But have you heard... by Huinesoron on 2013-02-12 08:17:00 UTC Reply

... that they're filming Sea of Monsters, too?

Which... may or may not be a good thing.

hS

Re: But have you heard... by DawnFire on 2013-02-12 13:19:00 UTC Reply

Well, they're changing half the actors, and making Annabeth blonde (finally!), so who knows?

~DawnFire

The Ironic Overpower... by hermione of vulcan on 2013-02-12 16:41:00 UTC Reply

...will probably seize on our hope and make the movie worse. Besides, how are they going to build off the first movie? They took out everything that was built upon in later books like Thalia's tree, Clarisse (hmm, and Annabeth wasn't intelligent. Something against female characters, much?), Grover's quest for Pan, all of Annabeth's personality, Kronos, etc. So I don't know. I think the best thing to do would be to just wipe the drawing board clean and start over with a completely new cast and crew.
I sound optimistic, don't I? *sarcasm* I'm just defensive of the books that got me through my horrible middle school years.

I dunno... by the Irish Samurai on 2013-02-13 14:32:00 UTC Reply

I'm remaining cautiously optimistic about it. I wasn't a huge fan of the early Harry Potter films (love the books though), but I think they got a lot better as they did each one.

Hopefully, the same sort of thing will happen here too. And yeah, the easiest way of them doing that would be to make the future films more like the books.
Hm... by DawnFire on 2013-02-12 18:27:00 UTC Reply

...let's hope not. But you definitely have a point with all that--maybe they're just introduce them later/in a different way than in the books? Who knows. But most of the cast (no idea about the crew) is different (well, the main cast, at any rate), so...there may be hope?

Heh. I can understand the defensiveness--if this was, say, Tamora Pierce or Gerald Morris or Lloyd Alexander, I'd be up in arms. As it is, I enjoyed the Percy Jackson series (seriously--they're really fun! Not to mention creative, and full of elements of the Greek myths that were some of my bedtime stories when I was little), but I'm not exactly fanatical about them. (However, that's not to say that if you show me a badfic I won't get angry. I will. I really will. I just...probably wouldn't be *as* angry as I would with a badfic set in a different fandom.

(...er, let's not test that out...*glances nervously in whatever direction you look when trying not to tempt the Ironic Overpower. I'm guessing...sideways. Possibly on a diagonal*)

Speaking of badfic, I'm currently trawling through a horrific Star Trek: AOS songfic. It features Kirk, Spock, McCoy, Uhura, Gaila, and a chorus of crew-members singing relatively modern songs, ranging from Disney to the Beatles (!), as well as a bunch of random pop-songs. The song lyrics are occasionally adapted for Star Trek, but not generally very well. And, making it even *worse* (Spock singing the words "You've got a friend in me" is pretty terrifying), each song is preceded and followed by a run-on sentence or two. And the sentences are not only run-on, but full of further bad SPaG, too. There's even the occasional mini-tribble.

So, yes. Ouch. It huuuuurrrrts. I want it to go away. Actually, I want to PPC it, and get rid of Character Rupture!Spock (or possibly Replacement!Spock--I'm not sure yet). Because the ridiculously emotional Vulcan--well, actually, I think that phrase kind of speaks for itself.

(Everyone else is OOC too, mind--it's not just Spock. However, OOC Spock is the most painful to watch, since at least the others aren't supposed to have such wonderful control of their emotions that they hardly ever *show* any.)

And I'm going to stop there before this really turns into a rant.

~DawnFire

I feel your pain. by hermione of vulcan on 2013-02-12 21:06:00 UTC Reply

I have read my share of Star Trek badfic in "research" for OFAS, and Emotional!Spock is one of my biggest pet peeves - actually, any logical character made emotional, like Data from TNG or Seven of Nine from Voyager. Hence, Logic Class at OFAS. Seriously, the awesome part of these characters is their logic and how that impacts them. The Spock/McCoy friendship, for example, is a lot less awesome when you make Spock emotional.
What I really love, though, is when the Sue claims to be Vulcan or half-Vulcan and acts like a teenage girl. Even claims to have lived on Vulcan. I have seen so many Vulcan!Sues, and not a single one of them has acted like a Vulcan. (T'Mel from OFAS will be used to mock this.)
I better stop before I start really ranting.
(Ooh! Idea! Concert at OFAS of canonical music! Partially pleasant - Spock's Vulcan harp - partially painful - Klingon opera.)

Vulcans are so into not showing or being ruled by emotion... by DawnFire on 2013-02-13 16:18:00 UTC Reply

...that they undergo Kolinar. Silly Sues.

I can see why Emotional!Spock* is one of your biggest pet peeves--he's painful to read. And I can see that...although I haven't actually met Seven of Nine yet.

I completely support Logic Class. It sounds like a good thing. And you have a *very* good point about the Spock/McCoy friendship. I mean, the bit where Spock leaves his...my brain is saying 'fea', but it's katra, right? Too much LotR/Silm today...we'll go with katra. As I was saying, the part where Spock leaves his katra in McCoy's mind before he dies would be a heck of a lot less meaningful if he came up to Bones, and cried, and said, "Doctor, I need you to keep my soul in your head for me! If you don't, I might never be able to come back! Do you hear me?? Never!!"
*coughs* I, uh, may have just spent about 20 minutes on Tumblr. But...hopefully you get my point.

I would go so far as to say that *anything* involving Spock is a lot less awesome when you make him emotional. Except for the episodes where he's supposed to be, of course. Although, again, those are awesome because they're done well, and because they don't happen all the time.

I am happily new to the woes and ways of ST badfic, and so have yet to meet any Vulcan/half-Vulcan Sues. If you want to toss a particularly bad one my way, though, I'd be happy to claim her. (And possibly give her to OFAS a la Andromielle Zinnia--she was a really bad one, I read the MST once and wanted to punch through the screen--assuming you want her).

(Who is T'Mel? A Vulcan from TNG? Voyager? Somewhere else...?)

Ah, well, ranting is fun. It's also easy to do. Fortunately, it's generally not *too* hard to stop...otherwise my posts would be about three times longer :)

Concert at OFAS! That sounds amazing! Can I come? Er, can an agent of mine come to OFAS on a brief vacation and sit grinning in the audience?

...Klingon opera. Now there's an...interesting thought.

~DawnFire

--

*I kind of feel like that should be Emotional!!Spock, just because of how unlikely it is.

About OFAS... by hermione of vulcan on 2013-02-13 17:26:00 UTC Reply

T'Mel is a character at OFAS who applied as a Vulcan because she's a Spock luster. So, she has pointed ears and slanted eyebrows, but acts like a teenager because that's what she is.
And as soon as I got that idea, I thought that I should let PPC agents come to the concert.
(And yes, it is katra.)

Ooh, I see by DawnFire on 2013-02-13 19:54:00 UTC Reply

I need to reread OFAS, methinks. Oh, wait, now I remember her! Well, vaguely. Rereading still sounds like a good idea, though, especially since I'm pretty sure there are some new chapters by now...

Well, when you reach the concert, sign me up :) Or rather, let me know, and I'll organize a vacation...

(Every agent who goes to the concert is going to come back to a BEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEPing Console of Doom, aren't they.)

(Oh, good. I was pretty sure it was, but I've been trawling through badfic of everything except Star Trek today, not to mention awesome things on Tumblr, and 'fea' was honestly the first thing that came to mind. Glad to know my mind still remembers details properly).

~DF

Re: *takes deep breath* by stripey_cat on 2013-02-10 23:13:00 UTC Reply

Oh Gosh. I think I need to read those books. And I can only condole with you about a loved work being turned into a travesty.

I do disagree with what you said about the LOTR films "I don't think any characterization was so far off as to nearly character replace someone": I thought nearly everyone was replaced with podpeople, starting with Frodo and Aragorn, and the entire Steward's Family. (It's quicker to say that the only major characters I'd actually consider consistent-ish with the book were Eomer, Gandalf and Saruman. And Shadowfax and Asfaloth, if horses count.) But then, one of my favourite things about Tolkien is that his texts offer so many different interpretations, and I guess mine is no more valid than anyone else's.

Probably shouldn't have made that assumption.. by hermione of vulcan on 2013-02-11 01:50:00 UTC Reply

Because it's been a while since I read the books, so I really shouldn't be trying to compare them to the movies, which I've seen more recently.
I like what you said about different interpretations. That is the mark of true genius in fiction, when the stories and characters have so many layers as to be interpreted differently, sometimes conflictingly, sometimes not to one person's taste but to another's. Those fanbases always have the most divisions. But they are also the largest, because stories that are three-dimensional appeal to so many people.

I actually wouldn't call the Percy Jackson movie a travesty, because on its own, it was a good movie. As an adaptation of the book, it was bad. I mean, some things need to be changed for cinematic reasons, say, cutting unnecessary scenes for the sake of keeping the movie down to three hours, but there's a limit. Which, as I said, lands at a different place for everyone. All we have to do is accept each other's views and just share our love!

And to get off the sappy note, I guarantee that you will enjoy Percy Jackson. :)