Ugh, Rose.

Subject: Ugh, Rose.
Author: SeaTurtle
Posted on: 2015-04-16 02:53:00 UTC

Unpopular opinion: I don't really like Rose. Something about her just rubs me the wrong way and it wasn't just the age difference. I can't really see her as anything else but "the love interest who fawns over the Doctor". I'm watching a TV show about this awesome time-travelling alien who goes on epic adventures 13 times per year, plus a Christmas special. IMO, Donna Noble was the perfect companion: snarky, capable, quick-witted, and just there for the thrill of the ride. Just get this romance mush out of my TV show, thank you very much.

...but that's besides the point. I tend to lean away from romance/relationship stuff in what I read and write so my opinions are rather half-baked in that department. The most I can say is "be within the same age group". Of course we're dealing with interspecies romance in Doctor Who--- Rose is a young adult barely out of her teens and the Doctor is a man who's lived long enough (assisted by a time machine, yes, but you get the point) to see entire species rise and fall. In that case... maybe have both characters be full-fledged adults? Like I said, I'm no romance expert or anything but this is what my gut tells me.

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New mission! Sort of. by Desdendelle & Iximaz on 2015-04-16 00:17:00 UTC Reply

On hindsight, Des shouldn't have needled Rina and the Librarian about them being in love in the end of "Misophist". Why? Well... One of Iximaz's friends wrote a Librina PPC Badfic as a result.
We hope to heaven it's bad crack and not honest, because it's mission material. Screw Loose indeed.

Rassilon's funny hat. by eatpraylove on 2015-04-16 03:52:00 UTC Reply

Here, have a bowl of Every Flavor Beans and a remote-control K-9 toy. It's also one of those ones that talks if you press a button on its back. ("Affirmative.")

Also, may you never find badfic about yourself or Rina again.

Troll confirmed. by Iximaz on 2015-04-16 12:24:00 UTC Reply

I decided to talk to my friend and she just fell over herself laughing before saying "I got you!" ^^;

Anyway, I think I almost feel worse for the Librarian. First there's his partner, then there's the badfic... But still, yeah, hopefully there won't be any real badfic about these two.

Ah, agentshipping. by Voyd on 2015-04-16 02:40:00 UTC Reply

That one subject I wouldn't know how to write if I were to read half of the romantic stories out there.

Seriously, I applaud the people who made believable relationships between agents. I could probably pull off a ship tease, in fact I think I have, but an actual romance? No.

Anyway! The mission. I actually didn't know we sporked PPC badfic. Still, it was nice and surreal!

Well, we don't spork PPC badfic because... by Iximaz on 2015-04-16 02:45:00 UTC Reply

There's not really any to spork. There's a reason why we have the Permission system. (Plus, how do you explain a badfic like this one in-universe?)

Also, I have a fic all lined up and ready for the Fanfic Land reopening in September that will hopefully pull off an uncanon agentship. :3

We donÂ’t spork Â– donÂ’t say this! by Hieronymus Graubart on 2015-04-16 10:21:00 UTC Reply

The threat of merciless sporking is all that keeps badficcers from ignoring the Permission system. Well, that and just not knowing about us. But this may be changed by attempts to re-popularize the PPC on ff.net.

I’ve not been around so long, but I’m certain that there has been PPC badfic. The badfic games didn’t come out of the blue, parodying something that never existed.

The in-universe explanation for PPC badfic is obvious: Mary Sues and Gary Stus disguised as agents undercut PPC HQ (not in the big invasion emergency way), or assorted wraiths try to possess agents. Sporking this kind of badfic is actually what the DIO would have been made for, if it had ever existed.

HG

Yeeeeees they did. by Huinesoron on 2015-04-16 10:51:00 UTC Reply

Jaycacia came into existence to answer the question of 'what if there was PPC badfic', not because any actually happened.

The DIO is a better angle to take, but even there... well. I never actually used them to kill a real story. There've been a few which might have deserved it, but we didn't go that far.

And honestly, a lot of it is hindsight. We look back at some early stories and see how horrible they are - because they don't feel like what we think the PPC should, nowadays. But back in the day, our modern concept didn't exist; there's a lot of 'bad' which is just 'different'.

'course, there's also a lot of bad which is bad. In fairness, we should probably be sporking half the PPC's early fics. Some of them throw spelling and grammar out the window; some turn the agents into ludicrous Sues; some directly attack authors. We've got quote-talking Flowers, plagiarised agents, Lux's rapid descent from 'lustbunny in a steady relationship' to 'sleeps with literally anything' (oh wait, that one hung around)... yeah, it's been a rocky ride.

But the PPC canon is inclusive. Even the bad stories contributed things we still use today (such as, um, the Department of Floaters). Going back and attacking them would be... ungrateful.

hS

Ugh, Luxury. by Voyd on 2015-04-16 15:05:00 UTC Reply

Luxury is actually my least favorite PPC character.

Literally her entire personality is "sex maniac," and that's just not interesting to me.

Didn't used to be. by Huinesoron on 2015-04-16 15:17:00 UTC Reply

Think about her TOS appearances. She's a nymphomaniac, sure - she sleeps with Shaun on the joint mission with J&A, and later shows up (after breaking up with Shaun) with a... nurse?

But she's also crafty - she can draw pretty well, and she's into taxidermy in a big way. She's a... well, pretty incompetent agent, from what I remember, which is also an aspect of her personality. She doesn't take things particularly seriously. She's also a fervent shipper of her fellow agents: she's the first known Byrdtree shipper!

I think the worst thing to ever happen to Lux was her acquiring a backstory in the Shipverse. That makes her absolutely a sex maniac with no inhibitions - which gives her a very flat (har, har) character. It's much too late to change, but really, I would've rather seen her with more nuance. A nympho serial monogamist would've been more interesting, for instance.

But that ship sailed many, many years ago. Now I just try to stay out of her way. ^_^

hS

But Luxury is serially monogamous. by Hieronymus Graubart on 2015-04-16 17:50:00 UTC Reply

We just happened to see her mostly between relationships, when she was frantically looking for a new one.

Seriously, even if Luxury originated from the Shipverse and could genuinely not understand why nearly everybody was freaked out by her when she arrived, she isn't stupid and had over twelve years to adapt to the new environment.

HG

I should write the story where she meets Jenni. by Neshomeh on 2015-04-16 18:23:00 UTC Reply

That's my headcanon, because it just makes sense. Jenni's one of the few people who wouldn't be completely freaked out, and could maybe even give Lux a few pointers on toning it down a little. This would've been back in the day a bit, but it would have to be after the nurse in Medical, of course. Maybe Lux was on a "sexy professional lady" streak?

Anyway, I've never actually written Jenni in a relationship with a woman before, and it's high time I put my money where my mouth is... or something.

~Neshomeh

There's a reason why I haven't written her. by Iximaz on 2015-04-16 15:33:00 UTC Reply

I'd be too tempted to give her her TOS personality, which would be very strange in today's PPC. Bit of a shame, really, she was interesting.

As Nesh mentioned... by PoorCynic on 2015-04-16 19:09:00 UTC Reply

...there have been portrayals of Luxury beyond "walking sex joke" in the modern PPC. I'd argue that most stories which show Luxury actually in the field doing agent stuff manage to capture that original portrayal to varying degrees of success. It's just that we almost always see Luxury as either a quick exaggerated cameo or indirectly through the statements of other agents.
You should totally do it! by Neshomeh on 2015-04-16 15:40:00 UTC Reply

There ARE more modern examples of Lux having a personality beyond "let's do it!", actually, so it wouldn't be that weird. Check out her appearance with Nin Brandt in That Series, and also anywhere she shows up in Miah's and Caddy's works. I don't think it's too late at all. {= )

~Neshomeh

OwO by Iximaz on 2015-04-16 15:55:00 UTC Reply

In that case, I might just have to bring her in sometime! XD

I would love to read this. by Hieronymus Graubart on 2015-04-17 08:28:00 UTC Reply

Luxury is special, but we shouldn’t believe all the rumors spread by people who probably think that three boyfriends in three years constitute promiscuity. Like Huinesoron suggested, she probably adapted to being serially monogamous, but her sex drive is still so overwhelming that she can’t keep any partner for an extended period of time.

BTW, she apparently is in a semi-stable relationship right now. Some (probably new) agents trying to find their RC met Lux (who had just a background cameo) and her current boyfriend in a mission or interlude that must have been published during the last six to nine months (obviously not by Voyd, Skarmory, Iximaz or TheShyIon, but who else might it have been?). I’m quite sure that I didn’t just dream this. Why, oh why didn’t I comment on Luxury’s cameo then? It would be so easy to find it now.

HG, ashamed

I don't even know what to say. (nm) by Omega on 2015-04-16 01:58:00 UTC Reply
I... I... just have no words... OnO by Edhelistar on 2015-04-16 01:10:00 UTC Reply

Here, have this Eevee plush doll for Rina, so she can forget she ever saw this... thing...

*cuddles the Eevee doll and curls up in a corner sobbing* (nm) by Rina Dives on 2015-04-16 01:15:00 UTC Reply

Oh dear. by SeaTurtle on 2015-04-16 01:09:00 UTC Reply

I don't even know what to make of this. Rina is 18 and the Librarian is... old? Ew. Oh, god, ew. Seriously, ew.

...where did you guys find the original? FanFiction.net?

Now that I think about it, though... by Iximaz on 2015-04-16 02:16:00 UTC Reply

I mean, it's squicky now, sure, but then again, Rose was 19 when she met the Doctor, who was, what, 900? You'd have to ask Des, but I'm fairly sure the Librarian isn't much older than 300. Don't take my word for it, though.

But anyway, the age difference ain't nearly as bad, especially considering Rina would one day close the age gap. When you think in terms of incredibly long-lived or immortal species, a few centuries' difference isn't that bad. What's three hundred years' difference when you're both thousands of years old?

Actually, this could make for an interesting topic: Age differences in shipping. When and where do you draw the line? Does it vary for different circumstances?

Ugh, Rose. by SeaTurtle on 2015-04-16 02:53:00 UTC Reply

Unpopular opinion: I don't really like Rose. Something about her just rubs me the wrong way and it wasn't just the age difference. I can't really see her as anything else but "the love interest who fawns over the Doctor". I'm watching a TV show about this awesome time-travelling alien who goes on epic adventures 13 times per year, plus a Christmas special. IMO, Donna Noble was the perfect companion: snarky, capable, quick-witted, and just there for the thrill of the ride. Just get this romance mush out of my TV show, thank you very much.

...but that's besides the point. I tend to lean away from romance/relationship stuff in what I read and write so my opinions are rather half-baked in that department. The most I can say is "be within the same age group". Of course we're dealing with interspecies romance in Doctor Who--- Rose is a young adult barely out of her teens and the Doctor is a man who's lived long enough (assisted by a time machine, yes, but you get the point) to see entire species rise and fall. In that case... maybe have both characters be full-fledged adults? Like I said, I'm no romance expert or anything but this is what my gut tells me.

Heck yeah, Donna was awesome. by Iximaz on 2015-04-16 03:06:00 UTC Reply

Her eventual fate made me sob like a baby, but then again, I get overly-attachef to characters.

I liked Rose well enough until she got stuck in the alternate universe. The writers just couldn't let her go, though, and kept dragging her back even though they originally tried to establish movement between dimensions was a difficult thing to achieve. Keep her in Pete's World alr, for God's sake!

Sorry, got off on a tangent there. ^^;

I'm a sucker for shipping, I'll admit, but I just can't stand it when romance is the end-all, be-all of a story. I prefer it as a side dish to the main course of adventure and excitement.

I hear you. by SeaTurtle on 2015-04-16 03:22:00 UTC Reply

I find that I can't really relate to any romance themes so it's all literary deadweight to me. When it does crop up, I'm a sucker for unrequited love-- you see the ship? Are the characters made for each other? Do they like each other?

Good. Now Yank the Dog's Chain so hard that the "loser" of the two gets a severe case of whiplash. Hilarious-- and it works every time. Er, no offence to any Real Life cases, of course.
I'll disagree with that by [EvilAI]UBEROverlord on 2015-04-16 03:12:00 UTC Reply

Of the 2005 Series, Donna was my least favorite. She just was too abrasive in my opinion. Very difficult to like. I would say Amy or Rose were my favorites personally. I will agree they probably should have kept her in Pete's World. Though I did not think the times she came back were that bad. They were basically for end of the universe type events. The kinds of things the universe might bend its own rules to prevent.

A friend of mine wrote it. by Iximaz on 2015-04-16 01:14:00 UTC Reply

Handed me the sheet of paper and everything. She seemed so pleased with it, how do I tell her it's horrid? :/ I hope to god she was trolling or writing very bad crackfic. ...come to think of it, that seems like the sort of thing she'd do, but still...

Count yourself lucky. by SkarmorySilver on 2015-04-16 01:57:00 UTC Reply

There was at least one incident during my fanbrat years in which I angered someone enough for them to actually send me hatefic of my characters, and if something similar happened today and my agents got dragged in... well, I'd be too much of a mess IRL to mission THAT, I'll say that much.

I lol'd, by the way. Though I'm a tad surprised your agents didn't charge their fake duplicates before killing them...

They were just a tiny bit pi**ed off. XD by Iximaz on 2015-04-16 02:02:00 UTC Reply

Put yourself in their place. Would you have the patience to do that?

Pretty sure this is a joke. by SeaTurtle on 2015-04-16 01:20:00 UTC Reply

After all, she's aware of the context of the PPC and all of the badfic that agents have to go through. She's almost certainly trolling; it's what I'd do to mess with a friend!

She only has passing knowledge, though. by Iximaz on 2015-04-16 01:23:00 UTC Reply

Still... yeah, it does seem like a troll. Sure hope that's what it is. ^^;

I'll have to update the Wiki tomorrow. by Iximaz on 2015-04-16 00:31:00 UTC Reply

But it WILL get done, promise.
Okay, this was GREAT. by Darkotas on 2015-04-16 00:27:00 UTC Reply

I bet it must have felt somewhat surreal for the agents to murder themselves, huh?