Subject: Well guys, there's a reason...
Author:
Posted on: 2015-04-14 00:37:00 UTC
... about why Potterverse Agents don't take their wands to continua other than their home-continuum. Mainly because their Magic doesn't usually work on other continua and each continuum has its own rules for Magic.
So I was thinking about his earlier today, and I am curious to know what you all think. I was wondering what would happen if an Alchemist from the Fullmetal Alchemist Continuum were taken elsewhere. Would their alchemy work?
In the FMA universe Amestrian Alchemy has two basic sources, either the Philosopher's Stone source which is mostly used through the series up until basically the very end, or movement of the Earth's crust.
As it does not appear that the Wiki Page answers the question, I would like to know what you all think?
Background reading if you want it
This is more going off the comment about science vs. magic, but there's a difference between Real World science and fictional science. While alchemy may be powered by a real concept, it doesn't exist in reality, so it's not just the movement of the tectonic plates that makes alchemy work. While that's the in-universe explanation, the out-of-universe (between-universe?) reason is that the Words are what makes it work.
That said, I'd say that alchemy would possibly function in badfic, especially ones that have a tenuous grasp of their own continuum's mechanics. Basically, the badfic weakens the solidity of the Words by creating contradictory elements, and the agents can bend it further to cheat a bit. It's frowned upon, because they're making a bad thing worse, but in a sticky situation it might be the only way out.
To use a concrete example, I'd say that alchemy wouldn't work at all in the canon Potterverse any more than it would in World One. In a badfic that clings pretty close the mechanics of the original, it might be possible for an agent to make it work, but it would destabilize the continuum and exacerbate the issues caused by the badfic. It would probably be less effective overall and require more effort, and the Flowers would be likely to be displeased if they found out. On the other hand, in a badfic that makes major alterations to the Potterverse magic system, or is just so poorly structured that canon in general is being stretched to the braking point, a bit of alchemy would be a drop in the ocean, though a lot of alchemy might make things better, not worse.
In the case of a crossover, the agent would have to follow whatever rules were established by the fic, no matter how bad it is. If it's specifically stated that Ed can't use alchemy at Hogwarts, neither can an agent, even if the logic used violates canon (or is just really, really stupid).
Finally, I don't think that an alchemist agent would be useless just because they can't use their powers. After all, a lot of agents don't have any kind of powers whatsoever, and they contribute just as much. Plus, a character used to relying on their abilities, especially ones as flexible as alchemy, having to cope without them would make for a good story.
That would be breaking point, not braking point, and the end of the third paragraph should say "though a lot of alchemy might make things worse, not better."
As for why, spoilers for anyone who hasn't seen the first anime.
Basically, in the first anime, Edward gets stuck in an alternate reality. Our reality, in fact. And his alchemy doesn't work. Admittedly, I haven't seen The Conqueror Of Shamballa, so I don't know if that was a temporary thing for Edward, but I'm pretty sure it just doesn't work over here. And this is the first anime we're talking about, so it is sort of it's own continuum, but it is also the only adaptation to deal with alternate reality, so I would apply its rules to this situation. Of, course, I have no idea what would happen if an agent got their hands on a Philosopher's Stone, but it would be... interesting. Also, my memory is terrible, so correct me if I got anything wrong.
You are right about Conqueror of Shambala from what I remember, but I was more so honing in on the Manga/Brotherhood Continuum. I do consider the 2003 Anime a separate thing all together.
If the Alchemist was form the 2003 Anime Universe then I think you are right. But I was more curious about the Manga/Brotherhood Universe. Because, frankly if I were to use a character from the FMA Universe it would be Manga/Brotherhood not 2003 Anime. Just because of personal tastes.
And an agent with a Philosopher's Stone, would be bad. Just very bad. I see a Kimbley-like character with that. No one is going to be looking pretty with that.
But even if we were to hold the 2003 Anime as true as what would happen, which makes a certain degree of sense, except things end up substantially different, even in how certain things work (Like the homunculi). Even some of the Alchemy rules seem different between the 2003 Anime and Brotherhood.
But now a follow up. Do you think that even if it were not possible in this reality, what about a reality that clearly has magic? Like the Tolkienverse for instance? Would it still not work there?
So I suppose the real next question is, would it not work because of its Magic Nature? Or because of the raw source? Is there something inherently different about the tectonic movements of the FMA world than our own?
...Then screw it. It doesn't say that alchemy doesn't work in alternate realities, so do whatever allows you to provide a better experience for the reader. If you were considering an agent from that continuum, then they have to bring something to the table. Alchemy could be useful. I was only using the 2003 anime because it, conveniently enough, provided a less murky book of guidelines on how alchemy works. Although on the subject of the Philosopher's Stone, then it might be funny to have an agent trying to make a stone from sues. Especially if it doesn't work, or does work, but it just makes glitter objects. So, to summarize, if you can write a good alchemist, then do so. But I would just restrict them to magical continuums, if only for the sake of drama. You can't have a good fight if your agent just turns the sue's sword into cheese and then shanks them.
It would only be used in very specific situations. Namely Magical Continua or Sues/Possession Sues that normal tactics wouldn't work on. Like someone mentioned an Alucard Possession Sue from Hellsing. Or a Muto Sue from Godzilla. Things were the "Godzilla Threshold" would have been crossed, wherein the agents could do no more real harm to the cannon than what the Sue would have done. Military training on the other hand, is a different story.
And a Sue Philosopher Stone? I feel like it would probably cause really nasty rebounds.
I do not even know if I plan on going that route anyways. I would not necessarily restrict Alchemist Agent to those continua, but would restrict the use of Alchemy to those. Or alternatively give him/her an Achilles Heel not unlike Mustang's ignition gloves and water.
Alchemy as a Godzilla threshold measure sounds very good to me. And you also mentioned a way to prevent them from being useless outside of those continua, which is to say, training. I would just be careful about skirting the boundary between "Oh god why did we hire this guy, he's completely useless" and "Ok, this guy just blew up a sun with alchemy and litmus strips combust in his presence" because it's a very fine line to walk. But I think you could probably walk it, and an agent who can use alchemy could be very useful indeed. If you do go this route, I would be quite fascinated to see where it goes!
I am thinking of something similar to Mustang. I.e., career officer who happens to be an alchemist. I might use electricity as the type of alchemy, because it seems under represented in FMA as a whole, and it also would be useful as a tool, because of things like undervolting, etc., where it can be at different levels without breaking either the rules of Alchemy or Electricity. It allows a greater degree of flexibility.
For example PPC Regulations might prevent him from using it (even if it would work) in a non-magic universe. Then only up to a certain level in magic ones. And if it were to be in either the FMA universe (either of them) or you hit that Godzilla Threshold, then all bets are off. That way the theoretical agent would not upstage any cannon character. Even in the FMA universe I only imagine the power comparable to Mustang pre-Promised Day.
But the way I see this character, he would not work well with the prospective agent I already have created. Its more of a back-burner thing now.
... about why Potterverse Agents don't take their wands to continua other than their home-continuum. Mainly because their Magic doesn't usually work on other continua and each continuum has its own rules for Magic.
But, what I am kind of getting at is the source is something that all continua have in common, i.e., tectonic movements. Also in the FMA world it is science not magic.
So using what is known about the rules of Alchemy is that the power used comes from using the natural energy of the planet. Now to be fair, I do not think Arakawa was particularly clear in explaining all the finer points of how Alchemy works.
But as I said I am just kind of looking for ideas on it. Not sure if it will come to anything.