Subject: That should say "responses." (nm)
Author:
Posted on: 2014-12-26 07:47:00 UTC
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Happy Holidays from RC #227! by
on 2014-12-25 16:47:00 UTC
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And on that note, I might as well leave this here...
Carnage for Christmas
And now you know why I asked about stuff related to animated movies a few times recently. If anybody's willing to write an official fic concerning the OFU of Disney Infinity, please let me know, and don't forget to credit me for the idea!
As always, expect some explicit language on Rashida's part. XD -
*unboxes all Pokémon again* by
on 2014-12-26 18:52:00 UTC
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Applaud! Applaud! That was equal parts awesome, silly and adorable!
... Hey! Urist! I know you're a Gyarados and have no arms, but you have a tail and you have the ground. Make do. Applaud! -
*reads the rest of the posts* by
on 2014-12-26 18:55:00 UTC
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... but then again, I evidently have atrocious taste. I liked it, I didn't see anything wrong with it.
I am eighty kinds of derp today. -
Don't feel bad... by
on 2014-12-26 19:57:00 UTC
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I thought it was good too until PoorCynic and doctorlit pointed out everything wrong with it. I guess I just wasn't in my game as much as I thought when I wrote it in the first place.
Oh, well. Back to the drawing board, I guess. -
After careful consideration... by
on 2014-12-26 16:03:00 UTC
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...I've decided, based on the feedback I have received, to withdraw this story from the PPC canon.
The reason for this is twofold. Firstly, PoorCynic makes a very good point about Disney Infinity being completely different from *any* of the continua featured, especially with most of the story elements being changed to the point that they can't be considered canon to those continua. To be fair, I have not played that game even once (don't have the required equipment or any of the toys), so no, I am not familiar with that game, and I should have realized that when I wrote this. Again, I would gladly work on an OFU of some sort if I get the time, but it won't be for a very long while because of real-life reasons.
Secondly, and more importantly, the main pitch I had in my head when writing this story was, in fact, a series of stupid self-inflicted Mary Sue/Gary Stu deaths in a manner akin to "The Game of the Gods". I now realize that in the context of multiple Disney continua, it simply doesn't work, even if some of the events from certain Disney canons can get pretty dark sometimes (the Feminist!Sue's death was based off that of Scar from The Lion King). As it stands now, though, it stands in stark contrast to both the canons featured and the fact that this was supposed to be a holiday special. I'm reminded of that one fiasco from my first mission, particularly the death of that Character Replacement, though to be fair, it was in the context of a continuum where gore is somewhat expected. There is no such context here, and in hindsight, there was no way I could have work around that.
Finally, I will confess that I was being lazy, selfish, and reckless when I said what basically amounts to 'anyone can write this as long as they credit me'. Again, I will reiterate that I have very little time as it is to write any OFUs, but that is not an excuse to pawn them off to other people, especially not one as broad in scope as this. What I said was uncalled for and I cannot apologize enough for it.
So, yeah. I'll edit the Wiki accordingly, and probably start work over with a much more innocuous holiday special in the future. Sorry, everyone! :( -
Re: special Christmas episode by
on 2014-12-26 05:46:00 UTC
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This got rather opinionated, for which I apologize, but I feel it's an important thing to discuss.
I don't like the heavy focus on the gore of the Sue deaths. Partly, this is because it flies in the face of how PPC agents do things. Showy, dramatic displays of skill and arrogance are Sue things, not PPC things. Now, I know some of these Sues' deaths were brought about by canon characters, or, in the case of the chef Sue, her own illogical behavior, but you wrote those; hence, they are still deaths caused by a PPCer.
I think the worst example is the feminism Sue. It actually starts out excellently: an agent and Sue in a Mexican standoff, with the tension suddenly being broken by another agent singing a Christmas Carol. That's fantastic: there's danger there, but it gets interrupted by bizarre and slightly awkward humor. Now Rashida has the opportunity to put a bullet through the temple, and the scene can go on—
Except that the scene doesn't go on. Rashida disarms the Sue instead, giving said Sue the opportunity to fight back (read: show off and garner more screen time). This fight then leads to a horrific accident involving parts of a Christmas tree, followed by a slow, loud death by being eaten alive by sentient predators while the Sue begs.
Here's a brief list of things I don't find funny or entertaining to read about:
-dying people begging for mercy
-a detailed description of someone being literally eaten alive
-someone's internal organs being punctured by ornaments from a Christmas tree, a symbol of bringing together my loved ones
I mean, this is sadistic. To put this kind of scene in a story that a) purports to take place alongside some of Disney's animated canons, and b) in your obligatory Christmas episode is just very, very bothersome to me. I would charge for a scene like this being included in a badfic for any of the canons you represented here.
But a further problem, to get back to what I was saying about that particular assassination: when you give a big, dramatic fight scene like this to a Sue, it's reinforcing the Sue's power, whereas the purpose of the PPC is to take away power from the Sue, and give it back to canon.
Now, I'm not saying missions should never end in big, dramatic scenes, because there have been some good ones here and there. But I find it more satisfying when a Sue is defeated, not because xir power was matched, by a stronger (more Suish) force, but because xir power was subverted, rendered immaterial in the grand scheme of the re-emerging canon. (I know this wasn't a mission, and that the Sues were made up, but the treatment of them still matters.)
Now, you actually had an excellent example in your Friendship Is Magic mission below. (And I apologize for not responding to both separately, but I read both during the same work shift, and I need to get to sleep.) I liked the outcome you gave to E.V.L.'s attempt to dispatch the replacement villain: E.V.L.'s Suvian assumption of "I do thing and succeed" falling flat on it's face against the fully powered Sue is a great example of why taking on a Sue on xir own terms is a terrible idea, not only because it's dangerous for the agents, but because it gives the Sue a chance to shine even brighter than before. The replacement's eventual successful assassination is better, as it involved a distraction, followed by stripping of the powers. It's still marred, in my opinion, by the violence inherent in the scene (in a My Little Pony story!). The snapping off of the horn I could have forgiven on its own, since it's a logical way to deprive a unicorn of xir magic, but coupled with the blood draining assassination method . . . it's just gross to read. (How did that work, really? Wasn't E.V.L.'s head detached while she drank that blood? Where did it go?) I actually wasn't initially planning on commenting on it, since you gave signs at the end of that mission that both agents are due to have their powers hobbled, but I decided to bring it up, too, after reading the Christmas story.
Okay, I feel like I rambled maybe too much (and deleted a good deal of what I wrote, may it please thee). Part of this got very opinionated, and again, I apologize for that, but I can only review from my own point of view, and sometimes it's unavoidable. Let me just summarize what I was aiming for:
1. I'm not saying never have dramatic fight scenes that show off a Sue's powers. They can be fun, but they should be a sometimes food, like cookies or ketchup sandwiches; otherwise, they get tiresome and boring to read, and miss the point of the PPC-as-a-whole's problem with Sues.
2. I personally hate reading gore. (Or watching it, but that's not relevant.) It's especially off-putting in situations where it doesn't belong (kid-oriented continua, love-themed holidays, etc.). Obviously, I can't stop you from being the violence-themed PPC spin-off, if that's what you like to write, but . . . I'm unlikely to keep reading your work if it's going to continue featuring scenes of this borderline-sadistic nature. That's just how I feel. -
Hrm. by
on 2014-12-25 22:21:00 UTC
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Before we begin, my usual disclaimer: I apologize if my opinions and points seem to be presented harshly. My intention is neither to belittle nor insult.
This story... this story is not good. I am struggling to think of anything that I liked, which is not what my reaction should be after reading a PPC fic.
First off, there's the OFU itself. It bothers me that you seem to have just created an OFU with which you intend to do nothing. It is especially bothersome since you made this OFU so broad in its scope (despite it supposedly being just about Disney Infinity, which I will get to in a second). If canon-specific OFUs can just supplant it, then why does it need to exist in the first place? Disney has no shared overarching canon. What benefit does this provide to these smaller fanfiction schools?
I must also protest your use of Disney Infinity for one major reason. The game might not have a lot of canon to it, but there is one important point that you have either forgotten or not researched. The characters in Disney Infinity are not canonical transplants. They did not jump universes. They're toys. Literally. That's the central focus of the game. That's why all the levels are based off of toy boxes and why the characters fall to pieces when they run out of health. It therefore makes no sense that the original canonical characters would go to teach at this OFU (expect maybe the Toy Story characters). You also included characters who are not actually part of the Disney Infinity line like Tiana. I suppose that ties into the "all-purpose OFU" excuse.
That bothered me a lot when I read through this the first time, and it took me a few minutes to figure out why. Ignoring or overlooking key canonical details for the benefit of your own characters or plot is something that happens in badfic.
I'm not even sure why this needed to be a crossover at all. Very few of the Disney characters outside of those from The Incredibles, Frozen, and Tangled did anything. Mickey Mouse was pretty much entirely ignored, which is weird since he literally is the face of Disney. His speeches were bushed off in a couple of sentences.
Some of the canonicals felt OOC at times. Elsa and Anna seemed the most prone to this (although that could be because I saw Frozen most recently of any Disney film). Wh would Elsa care about statues? I don't recall that particular aspect of her character.
Finally, and perhaps most importantly, I didn't see the point of this story. Your characters didn't seem to develop in any significant way apart from what I felt was a very weak token lesson about respect at the very end. Stories need to have a point; something that drives the characters and invests the audience. This whole fic just seemed to be a excuse to have your characters interact with certain members of the Disney canon. If that was indeed the point, then color me a little concerned.
This is a weak effort, all in all. I know you're capable of better.
PoorCynic -
Re: Hrm. Again. by
on 2014-12-26 04:34:00 UTC
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Okay, I've edited the story a bit so that it now explicitly mentions the whole matter of the characters being toys here. I've set it up so that when the characters enter this universe for real, they become the AU toy versions in a similar way to the toys being brought into the actual game. Again, it was my mistake to forget that fact initially, though I'm also open to other suggestions about how to integrate the toy aspect into this OFU as well.
And while I'm at it, I should also retract what I originally said about intending to pawn the OFU fic off to someone else. I should have said outright that I *do* plan to work on the OFU proper, but it will be a while before I can get to it because of real-life responsibilities. Hopefully, though, I should still be able to start up at least something by next year. We'll see how it turns out! -
Re: Hrm. by
on 2014-12-25 23:05:00 UTC
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Okay. Um. Well.
I guess I'll have to address all of your points pretty carefully here, as I could've sworn this went over well with my betas. Hmmm...
If I had any time available to myself, I would gladly write about the OFU in question and explore what coursework for it is like. The problem is, I DON'T. At least, not yet. I have enough projects as it is on both a personal and academic front, so that means that if I do end up starting work on the OFU, it wouldn't be until after I graduate from my degree sometime next year. That's part of the reason why I had the characters note that the classes wouldn't start until that time.
As I've noted here, this is intended to be a general-purpose Disney fanfic university. My reasoning was that the smaller fanfiction schools aren't suitable for those who write Disney fanfic in general without preference for any particular continuum, rather like an OFU for Anime (which was listed in Miss Cam's OFU catalog) as opposed to OFUs for specific animes like Madoka, Trigun, Black Butler, etc.
My betas and I agreed on Infinity because an OFU of Disney/Pixar just didn't seem right. Infinity at least provides a general universe for Disney and Pixar characters. The point that all the characters are toys in this continuum is something I failed to consider in the writing process, however, which now presents the problem of how to integrate that into the story. I'm tempted, very tempted, to have the canons be transformed into toys upon entering the universe of the OFU, and once they return to their home continuua, an AU version of them splits off and stays behind to continue teaching there.
The fact that I unintentionally ignored a lot of other characters was partly due to making the Christmas deadline and partly due to this being told from the POV of the agents once they entered the picture. It's like you're listening to a speech and you don't remember half of what they were saying afterward. If I do get the time to work on the OFU (and I may end up collaborating with someone else if things don't pan out for a solo effort), I'd be more than willing to expand upon what the other characters will do there.
Lastly, this was first and foremost a holiday special, and the key thing I had in mind was Rashida's mentality and how she comes to warm up to the whole thing. I don't know if I accidentally covered it up amidst the rest of the fic, but the idea was to have her start out as not wanting to even be at the party because she needs to get back to HQ, becoming increasingly angry that she doesn't get to do so, finally snapping after too many mishaps and ruining her partners' good spirits, and then regretting her decision to storm off on her partners and coming back to apologize to them. Again, I don't know how well I did it, though, and I may rewrite this to emphasize that at a later time.
I wonder what some of the other Boarders around here have to say about both your feedback and my response. Starting up a new OFU honestly makes for a fascinating avenue of discussion, especially since most of them have recently stopped updating for some reason or another. -
Some reponses. by
on 2014-12-26 06:23:00 UTC
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First off, you're still ignoring the fact that Disney Infinity is a stand-alone canon. It has its own rules and its own storylines. The worlds in Disney Infinity are not the same as the regular Disney worlds, just as the worlds in Kingdom Hearts are not the same as the regular Disney worlds. Making the characters all toys does address that issue. For example: in the game's version of The Incredibles, Infinity!Syndrome survives and sends more Omnidroids to Metroville. It is not the movie verse. To conflate the two is a rather strange canonical error.
As I obliquely noted in my original post, that indicates to me that you either did not know about Disney Infinity and did not bother to research it, or just didn't care and wanted to write the story regardless. The PPC community is supposed to be one that prides itself on its knowledge and love of canon. The attitude I see in this story does not seem to fit that.
Secondly, what exactly do you mean by "general-purpose Disney fanfic?" What is that supposed to entail? The only thing I can think of are crossover fics that just cull from all of Disney. You cited that Anime OFU, but did you actually read it? To me it seemed just kind of generic and unremarkable, which is sort of what I expected. That's the risk you run when you make crossovers like this too broad.
And there's another thing. How much of Disney would this all-purpose OFU actually cover? Your other post specifically mentions Pixar, but what about other Disney subsidiaries? Would this cover Lucasfilm? Or Marvel? There are three Marvel-themed playsets in Disney Infinity, so it could theoretically stretch to cover that.
The plot with Rashida definitely did not feel like the central focus, especially since you start out on the Incredible family rather than your own agents. I get that she didn't want to be there, but that felt irrelevant. The canon characters overshadow your own at almost every point (which is part of the reason why agents typically don't interact with the canons outside of dragging them to Medical or FicPsych).
And also, honestly? Rashid was kinda right. I agreed with what she said when she had her meltdown in the kitchen. Most of her points were valid, which ultimately made her apology feel hollow and disappointing. At least to me, anyway. -
That should say "responses." (nm) by
on 2014-12-26 07:47:00 UTC
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Brilliant. by
on 2014-12-25 18:17:00 UTC
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Good work as usual. I like the ides of the OFU, and I just had to chuckle at how you lampshaded the fact that you deliberately wrote in those Sues.
One question, though: What was the point of the impromptu rendering of Adeste Fideles ("O Come, All Ye Faithful") near the end?
However, I did spot one error:
Her regenerative powers alone kept her from breaking her neck upon impact.
Since you have two females fighting, then you should replace that first "her" with a proper noun. As currently written, the reader assumes that it is Sarah, not the Sue, who has the regenerative powers.