That's the attitude Sister!

Subject: That's the attitude Sister!
Author: James Shields
Posted on: 2014-09-18 20:02:00 UTC

Really, if you can see them in that light, then all the more
power to you Star. (Can I call you Star?)

Yeah, I can why those other ones would hurt you. I guess you should take Neshomeh's advice to heart. Those are clearly on the exclusively negative category, and if you genuinely think that the story is neither unoriginal nor unfunny, which in my opinion you would be correctly assuming so, then there is nothing good that can be taken from it. I do realize that just saying this can't make it stop hurting you, but I hope it helps.

I will go over the story once more, this time carefully and analytically, to see if I can provide with some helpful
concrit.

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On dealing with bad reviews by LonelyStar on 2014-09-16 03:32:00 UTC Reply

So, the My Immortal parody I had up? It's gotten a few bad reviews (two out of five- the fic itself has 7 reviews, but two of them are me flaming myself for story purposes) saying that I should stop because it's unoriginal and unfunny.

I don't want to become the kind of author who ignores all signs that her story is turning out horribly, and I don't want to go over to the Board one day to find out that it's been killed by the Department of Bad Parody.

Should I discontinue/delete it?

Can I help you out? by Seychelles on 2014-09-17 00:24:00 UTC Reply

If you haven't got your plans set in stone, would you mind if I sent a few critiques for your Suethor to take the wrong way?

Sure. (nm) by LonelyStar on 2014-09-18 01:46:00 UTC Reply

Okay reveiw posted. by Seychelles on 2014-09-20 04:11:00 UTC Reply

Do you think it will work for your story

Everyone here is the best internet friends I could hope for. by LonelyStar on 2014-09-16 19:15:00 UTC Reply

Thank you all.
It's a process. by Neshomeh on 2014-09-16 18:55:00 UTC Reply
1. Remember that writing is first and foremost something that you do because you want to. It's very, very nice if it ends up pleasing others, but if that's the only reason you're doing it, 90% of the process is not going to be much fun. Writing is hard work and takes a lot of time, so make sure you're doing it because you enjoy it. If that's not the case, then yeah, you might want to give it up and find a hobby that actually makes you happy.
  
  2. Assuming that you're writing this story because you love the idea and you're excited to create something with it: You can please some of the people some of the time, but you can never please all the people all the time. There will always be someone who disagrees with you or doesn't like what you're doing, but don't let them make you forget about the people who like it—including yourself.
  
  3. Getting negative reviews sucks, but it never hurts to think earnestly about what they have to say. In this case, can you make your story more original and more funny going forward? If so, do it! Always push to make your work better than it was before, and remember that you can't make that happen by quitting.
  
  ~Neshomeh

thank you. by LonelyStar on 2014-09-16 19:12:00 UTC Reply

I do write because I love writing (as you say, it would be a very bad business to get into if you don't like it), but I want to be a good writer, and I don't have too much confidence that I am one.

On insecurity. by Neshomeh on 2014-09-17 18:40:00 UTC Reply

A lot of writers, and artists in general, are insecure about their abilities. To some degree, this is a good thing: it can push you to take steps to make sure you don't screw up for stupid reasons like failing to do the research, use a beta-reader, or double-check the meaning of that unusual word you just used. There's a good saying that goes roughly like this: the minute you think you're done improving is the minute you start to suck.

Of course, it can also be really discouraging. One way to avoid letting self-doubt hold you back is to choose very carefully whose opinions you put stock in. Personally, my ranking goes something like this:

1. Concrit from people I don't know. (Not likely to be biased.)
2. Concrit from friends and family. (Probably biased, but those who know me best know that I value honesty over flattery.)
3. My own judgement. (I am often my own harshest critic, so I trust others more than myself to tell me when I've done well.)
4. Exclusively negative comments from anyone. (Not pleasant, but can still be used to find areas to improve as long as they're more than mindless flames.)
5. Exclusively positive comments from anyone. (Nice to hear, but unreasoned "This is so awesome!" type comments are completely useless and, IMO, more insulting than flames.)

Hope that helps. {= )

~Neshomeh

It's an anon, so . . . by Thantosiet on 2014-09-16 16:21:00 UTC Reply

I'd say you have one reader who thinks spamming you will make you take the story down. Have you, by any chance, recently given any negative reviews to other stories? Most of the flames I've gotten in the past have been attempts at revenge-reviewing.
Can you give the link? (nm) by Tigeress on 2014-09-16 04:18:00 UTC Reply

On the link by LonelyStar on 2014-09-16 05:39:00 UTC Reply

I can't give you a link, because, unfortunately, I don't know how to put links here.

However, I can tell you that it's on Fanfiction.net, is called Till the World Ends, and this is its current description:

Ebony D. D. R. Way had a sister, a year younger: Ivory Lightness Inno'cence Dove Way. Ivory comes to Hogwarts for her 7th year, finds the chaos Ebony left, and takes it upon herself to find the calm in the goffic storm and to redeem all those tempted into falling for the dark, wicked charms of Ebony Dark'ness Dementia Raven Way. Discontinued until further notice due to bad reviews.

Alright! by Tigeress on 2014-09-16 06:26:00 UTC Reply

Found it!
Also... You just copy/paste the link:
https://www.fanfiction.net/s/9450972/1/Till-The-World-Ends

Thank you! (nm) by LonelyStar on 2014-09-16 06:32:00 UTC Reply

Also, I think you should keep going. by Tigeress on 2014-09-16 06:36:00 UTC Reply

Ignore the haters- I think it's good! Some people don't recognize what constitutes an intelligent parody...

Thank you. by LonelyStar on 2014-09-16 07:50:00 UTC Reply

That means so much to me. I trust all the people here, but don't have much confidence in myself as a writer.

I second what KittyEden said! by James Shields on 2014-09-16 18:12:00 UTC Reply

Seriously, keep going! This amazangly awesome! The world needs something like to counter the chaos that is My Immortal.

Add me is a third member to The Brotherhood of Unconfident Writers. I have write some good stuff and some bad stuff online, but whenever I got really bad and flamy reviews, I always got the urge to cry and then took the thing.

So please, don't do that. This just too brilliant to let some
flamers make you stop, don't them win. Let's make a promise.
I will never run away from my stories again and you don't stop because of such horrible people. That a deal, Brother?

Deal. by LonelyStar on 2014-09-16 19:14:00 UTC Reply

You've got yourself a deal.

Only thing is, it should be 'sister'.

I'm a girl.

Regarding the reviews of your story by James Shields on 2014-09-17 19:11:00 UTC Reply

I assume the first two reviews, the guest ones, were your self
flamer reviews for story purposes, right?

It seems you got a couple of new bad reviews, one for each chapter. The content is already bad enough, but that not even my real concern. The author of both of them - Michelle the Editor - that's Thantosiet's fanfiction.net profile.

Now, those were post after you posted this thread, so I have to ask. Is she perchance helping you out with the intentional
flamer reviews angle?

On Michelle the Editor's reviews by LonelyStar on 2014-09-17 21:25:00 UTC Reply

I've chosen to see them as compliments on the 'bad on purpose' parts of the story. It's the "unoriginal" and "unfunny" comments that really get me down, because all of the bad writing is completely intentional, but I was intending to be funny, so saying it's not hurts.

You took those as bad reviews? by Thantosiet on 2014-09-18 20:10:00 UTC Reply

"Compliments on the 'bad on purpose' parts of the story" is exactly what I meant. It takes someone really good to execute really bad writing effectively. I'm tremendously sorry that didn't come across the right way.

*Feels guilty* by Thantosiet on 2014-09-18 20:18:00 UTC Reply

I've always been bad at conveying my emotions properly through text, particularly when it comes to snark, or when I can't go back and edit my words. What I was trying to say was that you managed to create a parody Sue that was believable enough to be good, but still over-the-top enough to be fun to read. The part I liked most was how you managed to swing to the opposite extreme of Suefics from My Immortal. Where that fic was crude, "goffik" and abrupt, full of horrible spelling and author's notes, yours tilted towards purple prose, extreme niceness and fluffiness and run-ons. Just the kind of thing someone who knows the vague symptoms of a Sue, but not the underlying problem, would do to "fix" a story like My Immortal. It's already my favorite parody of that story.

Again, I am so sorry I bungled my words badly enough to seem like I disliked your story, because the whole reason I went to review them was because I thought it deserved more positive ones.

* Feels guilty for making you feel guilty * by James Shields on 2014-09-19 18:49:00 UTC Reply

Actually, I was the who mistook them for "bad" reviews.

If anyone fumbled their words here it was me. I meant to convey to LonelyStar that " Hey that person who seemingly posted a bad review is a boarder. Is she helping you out?"

LonelyStar truly seems to have taken them as compliment from the start.

honestly, the most I meant to say was asking if maybe you had contacted her and then "flamed" her on purpose
to help with the in-story Suethor aspect. I was the one who missed the whole 'compliment on the intentionally bad parts of the story thing'

I just saw that 1)it was your Pit profile and 2)they were posted after this thread already up, so I thought you were
helping a fellow boarder. It just may have come out badly
on my post.

So if anyone hurt anyone here, it was me by indirectly causing you to feel guilty. And for that I am sorry.

It's okay by Thantosiet on 2014-09-19 18:54:00 UTC Reply

At least my motives were never in question; that would have been pretty awkward.

Would flames be wanted, though? It would fit with the whole parody element to have parody flames, I suppose.

Glad that was sorted out by James Shields on 2014-09-19 20:45:00 UTC Reply

No, I don't they ever were. You conveyed it pretty well to LonelyStar herself, and that is what matters.

Well, yes I guess parody flames would be wanted. I don't know if you saw the first post the thread or not, but LonelyStar actually flamed herself for plot purposes. Those two "guest" reviews were the ones she responded to in Chapter 2. I take it this is one of them: "Ivory is a self-righteous bitch. And hypocritical, too: She's wearing a SEE THROUGH dress. And, BTW, you said that the sun was one- fourth through its daily revolution. That would mean that it was 6:00 A.M. Seriously.

Take writing lessons."

I don't know which is the other one .

Seychelles has asked to post parody flames as well, and Star accepted it, so I guess it would be okay.

Also, how are you? I haven't seen you around here for a while.

Of course, parody flames on FF dot net . . . by Thantosiet on 2014-09-19 22:42:00 UTC Reply

. . . May be a little questionable now that the system has the author moderate any anonymous reviews that come in. I suspect a real, sensitive Suethor would just delete them.

Otherwise I am good! I've started working at a friend's restaurant and I'm really enjoying it (feet excepted). And you?

Yeah, that would a good corcern. by James Shields on 2014-09-19 23:12:00 UTC Reply

Of course, it is generally not good practice to leave anon reviews in the first place. In this case it was needed because, well, she couldn't very well flame herself under her own name. But if I someone were to want to leave a parody flame to another author, I suppose they would use their own profile.

I am doing fine thank you. Just trying to navigate the chaotic waters of college life.

Good to hear you are liking your new job. Lets hope you never any Not Always Right.com- level Bad costumers.

You didn't. by LonelyStar on 2014-09-19 01:54:00 UTC Reply

I took those reviews as compliments from the start. Thank you for considering me so great at being a bad writer.

Wait, that came out wrong...

That's the attitude Sister! by James Shields on 2014-09-18 20:02:00 UTC Reply

Really, if you can see them in that light, then all the more
power to you Star. (Can I call you Star?)

Yeah, I can why those other ones would hurt you. I guess you should take Neshomeh's advice to heart. Those are clearly on the exclusively negative category, and if you genuinely think that the story is neither unoriginal nor unfunny, which in my opinion you would be correctly assuming so, then there is nothing good that can be taken from it. I do realize that just saying this can't make it stop hurting you, but I hope it helps.

I will go over the story once more, this time carefully and analytically, to see if I can provide with some helpful
concrit.
I think that's pretty clearly what they are, yep. by Huinesoron on 2014-09-18 11:47:00 UTC Reply

Less so the first, but definitely the second.

hS

Well, Sister it is then! by James Shields on 2014-09-16 20:13:00 UTC Reply

Sorry, I couldn't tell. I had never met you before. Well,then
we got a deal, Sister. Lets spread Goodfic to the world!

Lets make it a trinty by Seychelles on 2014-09-17 00:20:00 UTC Reply

I've kinda been having a tough time. I haven't got any reviews at all.

I don't see why not by James Shields on 2014-09-17 02:25:00 UTC Reply

Consider yourself inducted. I don't think Lonelystar will have a problem with either. Us unfortunate writers need to unite.

For matter, maybe you could link to your stuff so that you get some concrit from me and other PPC-cers. What do you think?

Can I join too? by 7.65x54R on 2014-09-17 03:16:00 UTC Reply

I have difficulty writing in a novel-style, but I can write documents.

that being said, I do have confidence issues with my writing. Specifically the fear that they are too unorthodox to be good.

Sure, pile up! by James Shields on 2014-09-17 03:52:00 UTC Reply

The more, the merrier? Do you want to show some of your writing too?

I totally get you on the novel part as well. I had my first original fiction idea about 6 years ago. While I did sort of complete a book, I will have to be honest and say it was a complete mess. I still gotta a few novel ideas and I hope I will complete them while still in.my twenties...

As for fanfic, I have to a Harry Potter OC cooking up, the first chapter of should be up for betaing in a couple of ...days I think?. Wish me luck!

I also possibly get you on the fear of being unorthodox part as well, could you exemplify it though?

Exemplifying the unorthodox by 7.65x54R on 2014-09-17 04:22:00 UTC Reply

well, I'm working on a game Idea.

problem is I intend this game to start the next big kid's franchise (think Pokemon or Power Rangers), but it is a Roleplay-FPS. My fear is that someone will believe this game to be impossible to make and not believable. the same thing happened to this game's predecessor, and I do not want it to happen to this one.

I would gladly like to show you some of my writing, but I don't know how to make links on the board.

I'd prefer If I showed it to you through Email. is that okay?

Umm.. Sure why not? by James Shields on 2014-09-17 18:55:00 UTC Reply

I mean, I don't have technical experience with making games, that is to say, programming, graphicd or designing.

I am a gamer, for what it is worth, and the genre of your project seems similar to the one of my favorite gaming franchises, Mass Effect.

I don't know, maybe I could help you to polish the writing, plot and charactes and things like that?

My E-mail should be linked to my username, so send away!

sorry if it was confusing by 7.65x54R on 2014-09-18 02:08:00 UTC Reply

Yeah, Everyone I ask to beta it says it's similar to Mass Effect.

Yeah, I could really use some feedback since I've been coming up with this on my own.

I don't have any technical experience with making games either.

Oh, and thanks for offering.

Aw. by KittyEden on 2014-09-16 12:54:00 UTC Reply

Seriously, you're a brilliant writer, I can tell.
(To be honest, I don't have much confidence in my writing either.)
But don't be afraid to share. WE ARE NOT FLAMERS, HERE. WE WEAR FIRE-PROOF SUITS ALL DAY.
...no, we don't. That would look silly.
But we are all nice/crazy/both. And that's good enough.

~Kitty
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