Subject: Well, now I just look silly.
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Posted on: 2016-06-22 04:43:00 UTC
Especially because it was one of the stories that convinced me to join the PPC. Scapegrace's stuff is brilliant.
I suppose it's one of those things determined largely by Legal.
There's definitely a lot of comedic potential, there...
So... I've been wondering something... If an agent from the Star Wars continuum were in another continuum, like Harry Potter or something, would they not have their Force abilities? Given that DORKS change DNA, and the ability to sense and use the Force comes through special cells in the blood, it could... But then again, that means they wouldn't have an ability that they have always had. The Jedi/Sith/Adept/etc. would suddenly be without an ability that they literally use 24/7, an ability that is a big part in making them who they are. So... Yeah. That's what I'm puzzling over.
The Force is a mystical energy field that binds all life - from an ant to the universe and all galaxies - together. It's always there, wether you can sense it or not. And the way you sense it, and the measure of how well you can use it, depends on the number of midi-chlorians in the body that the Force can use to communicate with an individual. According to Qui-Gon Jinn, "Without the midi-chlorians, life would not exist."
Life in other canons can have no midi-chlorians just fine, so I would think a lack of them in disguise would make sense. Certainly using the Force in a flashy manner, e.g. Sith lightning, would be out of place in non-Star Wars realms. Disguises tend to be maintained even when making arrests; ergo, no Force abilities for the whole sporking.
As for really subtle powers, e.g. "Jedi Mind Tricks" or passive senses, are more dicey. I realize I'm just repeating myself when I say that senses are "translated" from the disguise to the mind of the Agent, solving the problem of blind Force-sensitive Agents, but I'll say it one last time here anyway.
I think that each world works differently, down to the smallest level. Certain powers just wouldn't translate. If you need to draw energy from some source for your powers, that would be a problem. (ex. The people on Lore from various Artix Entertainment games live on a planet with a core made out of mana, which gives them their magic.) But since The Force comes from the midi-chlorians in your bloodstream, it all depends on whether the DORKS simply overwrites your appearance, or your body, down to the smallest level. In a continum, I believe that a Force-user would not be able to sense anything, simply because there are no midi-chlorians present within the organisms in that continum. Of course, I do not know whether The Force allows you to sense life, or midi-chlorians. So someone from the Lands of Rising Evil would be without magic, but I do believe that someone who is Force-Sensitive would be the same, but externally, the powers would work differently.
And so much more...
It's established on the Wiki somewhere that the DORKS changes biology, rather than simply projecting an image; hence, Agents Jay and Acacia not feeling getting shot with an arrow until they switched out of their disguises.
Force powers, as I understand them, vary significantly depending on the author in scope and potency, so I wouldn't consider that a safe source for powers. Then again, I haven't read any of the Expanded Universe.
It's never mentioned in the Original Series nor in other stories I've read that there's an Animorphs-style "instinct transfer," but I'm the newest person here.
According to the wiki, obviously, the DORKS changes the actual body rather than projecting an image, but you already mentioned that point.
My personal preference is for Force abilities to not be allowed outside of Star Wars stories. Imagine if you had Mass Effect biotics running around a Redwall fic; it would be ridiculous, overpowered, and completely non-canon, all of which (other than some ridiculousness) the PPC is against.
Logic would also state that if you can give midichlorians to any form to maintain being a Jedi/Sith, then there's nothing stopping other Agents from giving themselves similar powers for no reason; that would be getting into Mary Sue territory.
Besides, lacking the Force provides an interesting challenge to the Agents in question, and they'd still be expert melee weapon users due to lightsaber training.
...allow agents to go flinging people and objects around on a whim. IIRC, it enhances their mind, allows them to sense things around them, and probably a heck of a lot of other stuff I can't think of right now because I'm just a casual fan.
As long as they don't go showing off with the flashier aspects of their powers, I think it would be fine; the Aviator, for instance, always gives herself her time sensitivity while in disguise, first because she knew she would have to get used to it at some point and later because it had become such a natural thing to her that taking it away makes her feel blind.though she's probably not the best example in things not Suvian...
There is more to the problem than the powers of the Jedi. If they got really angry during missions, something that will happen someday, would that lead them towards the Dark Side? Even in worlds where there is no Force?
And I'm not even talking about other powers linked to the mental state of the person too, and/or to some more-or-less mystical thing, like Personae, or the consequnces of black magic for Dresdenverse magic practicioners, for speaking about things I know well. (glitterbags don't have the soul to trigger te problme, but possessed characters for instance?)
Personally my stance on it is the old "power corrupts" cliche. It's a personality thing, not a mystical one, which is why certain Jedi can live their entire lives without succumbing to the Dark Side, some fall almost immediately, and some realize both sides are rediculous and go live in a cave as Grey Jedi.
As for using the Force outside of Star Wars fics, my take on it is the same as all special powers: If your powers rely on the existence of an outside force (The Force, ambient magic, the Dark Dimension, whatever) then they don't work in verses where that force is absent. If they are natural born or otherwise part of you (mutants, super soldiers, timelords, aliens, etc.) then you can use them, though doing so may not be the best idea. Because even if you buy into the whole midichlorians thing, they only allow you to tap into the Force. Without the Force there to tap into, you're just a person with really odd cells in your bloodstream.
I mean, the Jedi are all talking about the lifee and harmony with the Force, but life implies emotions, and you cannot run away from the forever. Besides, some emotions, like compassion, are worth feeling. And in my opinion, the best way to keep emotions uncer control is by acknowledging them, then compose with them, not suppressing the heck out of them. That's recipe for a total breakdown.
When I began thinking about this, I always found this ridiculious that Jedi are all talking about compassion and harmony when the real logic end of their argument would be something like a living droid, feeling no emotion, and a total, uncopromising justice. In fact, I came to see Light/Dark dichotomy as a Chaos/Order one, with both of the extrems just as harmful as the other. (Although the DS seemingly goes to the extreme faster, leading to the 'evil')
In short, you can rsume my opinion about the 'sides' to the Yin Yang symbol: You can only begin to have an order once you admit the existence of your inner weaknesses and limits, and you have to be the eye of the storm if you want to follow your emotions, or they'll chain you more than anything else could ever do. (A reason I liked the fact the first Force practicioners had to balance both sides.)
They are a species born without eyes who use the Force to see. If we say that the Force cannot be used in continua that don't have it, then the Miralukan would be permanently blind while in those continua.
Y'know, temporary force bubble generator sort of thing, or a helmet that gives them, er, force eyes. Would have to be similar to their natural senses, as Data pointed out.
Some sort of technology that is sufficiently advanced, is what I'm trying to say.
There's potential for drama, there, I imagine.
It's possible they would just have to deal with being blind. It's also possible whatever verse they're in would compensate by giving them Daredevil-like senses.
Either way, people born blind are pretty much universally better at navigating life than those suddenly struck blind, and are usually pretty awful at anything requiring vision if they have their sight "restored" so I think just suddenly giving them eyes would be a bad idea, since I am pretty certain Force-Sight is less like regular sight and more like Daredevil or Terezi's heightened senses that let them "see".
It allows the user to see through walls and doors, perceive organisms both living and dead, and see a person's Force alignment/aura. But they cannot perceive colors. And that's only for Miralukas or any other individual who is highly trained in the ability. It's also a Miraluka's only way to see, as they are physically blind from birth.
If shown life not connected to the Force, then the Miraluka would become uneasy at the very least, or at the very worst become traumatized and have their Force Sight damaged, as with what happened to Visas Marr.
So, Data, I'm confused. Are you saying that, taking this hypothetically, a Miraluka in the PPC wouldn't work because of sight complications?
I'm saying either the Miraluka would be just like anyone else who was born blind (ie still better at the other senses than a seeing person, and therefore still able to make their way around. Possibly even better at navigating HQ because it can't pull any visual tricks on them), or they universe they're in would compensate by heightening their other senses to the point that while they still can't "see" they have virtually no difficulty with perceiving things aside from colors and, like, celestial objects.
Though there are certainly some creatures from some continua that simply couldn't exist in what would essentially be "hostile" continua, or wouldn't be suited for the PPC because without benefits that they have in their home world they are severely disabled.
native to the continuum they're in, I assume they would obtain eyes.
Which could be an excuse to use the Force only for sight, and nothing else. But yeah, them having eyes could be a possibility.
Probably, they would remain blind even if they changed species; after all, the DORKS handles sensation "translation." Perhaps they'd perceive the world as if they still had the Force, only not be able to see through walls and whatnot.
Considering the HQ is constructed across several worlds, it would be funny to see these characters intermittently losing their powers just wandering to the cafeteria!
The operation of the disguise generator is very much in the 'unless you hadn't noticed' vein. Selene, for instance, is always a vampire, whatever her disguise. Dafydd always has exceptionally good vision (due to being an elf). But a Pokemon agent doesn't keep their powers when disguised as a human.
If you want an answer, I'd say it depends on how skilled the person setting the disguise is. The default disguises overwrite you completely, down to DNA and microbiome level, so you lose the Force, the ability to regenerate, immunities, even any diseases you might have. When you take the disguise off, it reverts you to the exact state you were in.
But most agents don't like being completely not themselves. It probably has a big, Animorphs-flavoured downside: either it recreates your brain and leaves you half-thinking like your disguise, or it doesn't and you end up with instincts that don't match your body. So they practice, and fiddle with the advanced settings, and customise their disguise settings.
Some agents simply change their appearance, keeping their bodies the same - Selene and Dafydd probably do this. Some will change specific parts of themselves, keeping some attributes as normal and losing/gaining others. It depends on the agent.
Other disguise-related thoughts:
-It's clear that the generator stores your old bodyplan in a format that maps 1:1 to your new one. When something changes - an arrow gets stuck in you, for instance - that change is carried over when you change back. When something changes to the point that it would be incompatible with life - such as your entire DNA structure changing in a regeneration - it becomes impossible for you to change back.
-I imagine the mapping goes the other way, too: if you're missing a hand and put on a disguise, the disguise will also lack that hand. You don't have the nerves and muscles to move it any more. But Dafydd doesn't intend to put on a disguise ever again, so this is just my thought, not canon.
-I bet people use disguises for way more than just missions. ^~ In a <a href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/14UrOpK7pBImoK0cdvBkBrVK9KVJRj6Og2THWBjmYhQ/pub">canon-friendly AU fic, I coined the terms 'wrought' and 'mardy', meaning 'attracted to a specific person whether they’re currently your preferred sex or not' and 'someone who’s attracted to their partner, but only when they’re both in disguise' respectively. Given that disguise generators let you change sex on a whim... yeah, there's a reason they're not supposed to work in HQ, no-one would get anything done.
-Come to think of it, there are probably some agents running around in mild disguise all the time. You know how some people are severely uncomfortable with their bodies? This is a technology that can just change that. And let's not even start on the possibilities for advanced mental tweaking...
hS
and with all of the other points and the text above them, I'd imagine it'd be safe to assume that, as it knocks about with DNA and whatnot, it won't work on non-organics.
Immortality continues to be out of reach for Finch, the poor bugger.
I just wonder what would happen with people who have prosthetics.
It's probably just as safe to assume that they go the same place clothes go, but I do like the image of a hulking troll-beast with a wooden peg the size of his toe for a left foot.
You could play some brilliant pranks with a disguise generator. 'Footstool in my appendix' type brilliant pranks.
Doctor Fisch of the Department of WhatThe was turned into something non-organic.
Especially because it was one of the stories that convinced me to join the PPC. Scapegrace's stuff is brilliant.
I suppose it's one of those things determined largely by Legal.
There's definitely a lot of comedic potential, there...
Ssshhhh! That was my idea! I thought I was being creative!
...oh, I think that was just a spoiler for a spinoff I don't even have Permission to write yet. Great.
Anyway, expect an exploration of the topic... Eh, some time in the future, there's no way to predict how long this will take me.
--Key
P.S. I really like "wrought" and "mardy." I may find a use for them in Real Life, even...
Chakkik is almost always in disguise, because he's gotten sick and tired of people screaming at his natural form.