OK, here comes another rant

Subject: OK, here comes another rant
Author: Pippa's Ghost
Posted on: 2015-10-13 23:42:00 UTC

The Eleventh Hour shows the the eleventh Doctor has an eidetic short-term memory. He recalls every insignificant detail of the last few seconds. That's all we see.

Despite what the DW wiki says, there's nothing to suggest he has a similar long-term memory too. Even if he has, there's still no reason to assume that the other Doctors have any kind of eidetic memory, never mind the other Time Lords. (If anything, it probably owes more to the eleventh Doctor as a Moffat protagonist than as a Time Lord. Sherlock and Jekyll both have eidetic memories too. Moffat obviously loves this gimmick!)

I've edited the DW wiki to make it more accurate. But it'll probably just get reverted back. DW fans tend to get rather - well - fanatical about their pet theories.

That's the main reason I didn't want to continue this debate. I wasn't ignoring what you said, just trying to avoid a long, pointless argument that will eventually sink into bickering about UNIT Dating. (All DW continuity debates eventually end up bickering about UNIT Dating. It's DW fandom's equivalent of Goodwin's Law.)

Oh, let's get it over with...

The tenth Doctor couldn't remember whether his third incarnation worked for UNIT in the seventies or the eighties. Yes, that was an in-joke, but it's still evidence he doesn't always have a perfect memory.

Reply Return to messages

Jump to this post's position in the thread ↴

New mission! by Desdendelle on 2015-10-13 13:14:00 UTC Reply

Yep, I can still write on my own. And stuff.
This mission is historical and happens a short while after Little Miss Mary.

Without further ado: anybody in need of a Prosthetic Conscience?

My usual nitpicks by Hieronymus Graubart on 2015-10-14 11:10:00 UTC Reply

Des sighed. He stroked Khatalelet’s back, muttering under his breath.
Who is Khatalelet? The fire-lizard’s name apparently is "Khataltelet".

Doctor who the mini-Reaper screeched a greeting in reply and began to gesticulate widely.
I can see some sense in gesticulating widely, but I’m not entirely sure whether you didn’t intent to write "wildly".

... fortunately, Anakin, Obi-Wan and Jenna have already left the elevator, so they didn’t hear him complain.
Should be "had" (past perfect).

HG

Fixed everything. by Desdendelle on 2015-10-14 13:15:00 UTC Reply

It was, indeed, supposed to be 'wildly', not 'widely'. Thanks, Mr Greybeard!

Memories by Pippa's Ghost on 2015-10-13 19:57:00 UTC Reply

I would've enjoyed this mission except there were twontimes when you said Time Lords had perfect memories. The first time I forced myself to ignore it, but the second time had me literally shouting at the screen. (My throat is now sore, and my cat is terrified.)

Anyway, just look at the trouble the first Doctor had remembering Ian Chesterton's surname. (And that wasn't deliberate teasing, because he still had trouble getting it right talking to himself after Ian had left.)

Then there's the second Doctor's famous line about the Daleks: "I know the misery they cause, the destruction. But there's something else more terrible, something I can only half remember."

In case you think this only applies to the Doctor, just look how absent-minded the Time Lords are in "The Deadly Assassin". They've even forgotten most of their own history.

This also continues into the new stuff. Look at all the effort it takes before the Doctor finally recalls the planet Raxacoricofallapatorius in "World War 3".

And, of course, Time Lord memories can also be temporarily wiped by Timey-wimey stuff, as in "Trial of a Time Lord" and "Day of the Doctor". (Maybe Time Lord agents should get temporary amnesia when fics have timeskips or tense shifts!)

So, while I can imagine the Librarian promoting the myth of Time Lords having perfect memories, Des should've challenged him on it. ("Did you forget how easily your people forget things?")

Uh...

Sorry, for ranting on like that, but I can get a bit obsessive about Classic Who. The rest of the mission was good.

Well... by Desdendelle on 2015-10-13 20:19:00 UTC Reply

1) According to the , which in turn bases itself on "The Eleventh Hour", Time Lords have "a form of eidetic memory, able to recall every detail of even the most insignificant moments in time". Since I (and other writers here besides) have mentioned this more than once, I'm going to stick with this (and at least be more consistent than the show in that regard).

2) Des' knowledge of Time Lord physiology is limited; what's more, other people beside the Librarian have told him that Time Lords can't forget, so why should he challenge that claim? And anyway, I don't know if you've noticed, Des doesn't go challenging every absurd claim the Librarian makes. The reason is that he simply doesn't bother; he's got better things to do with his time.

Aaaand I forgot to close the link tag. *sigh* (nm) by Desdendelle on 2015-10-13 20:29:00 UTC Reply

Forgetting like that, you could almost be a Time Lord! (nm) by Pippa's Ghost on 2015-10-13 21:05:00 UTC Reply

... Right. by Desdendelle on 2015-10-13 21:47:00 UTC Reply

There are polite ways to debate things. Being sarcastic about the other person isn't one of them. That's rude and uncalled for. Simply put: I'm insulted.

Sorry. It wasn't meant to be sarcastic or personal. by Pippa's Ghost on 2015-10-13 22:14:00 UTC Reply

It was just supposed to be a light-hearted, friendly joke to show that I'm trying not to take this seriously despite my earlier rant. (Maybe I should've put a smiley on there to make it clearer?)

Well... by Desdendelle on 2015-10-13 22:27:00 UTC Reply

Apology, such as it is, accepted.
It's OK to be serious about fandom (though you need to beware the SRS BSNS, of course). It's also OK to rant, everybody does that every once in a while. There was nothing wrong in the way you've ranted; it's the bit where you ignored what I've said in favour of an unfunny joke at my expanse that is insulting.
That said, forgiven. Everybody makes mistakes and it's hard to convey (or judge) tone over the Internet. Just, think before the next time you post such a thing, OK?

OK, here comes another rant by Pippa's Ghost on 2015-10-13 23:42:00 UTC Reply

The Eleventh Hour shows the the eleventh Doctor has an eidetic short-term memory. He recalls every insignificant detail of the last few seconds. That's all we see.

Despite what the DW wiki says, there's nothing to suggest he has a similar long-term memory too. Even if he has, there's still no reason to assume that the other Doctors have any kind of eidetic memory, never mind the other Time Lords. (If anything, it probably owes more to the eleventh Doctor as a Moffat protagonist than as a Time Lord. Sherlock and Jekyll both have eidetic memories too. Moffat obviously loves this gimmick!)

I've edited the DW wiki to make it more accurate. But it'll probably just get reverted back. DW fans tend to get rather - well - fanatical about their pet theories.

That's the main reason I didn't want to continue this debate. I wasn't ignoring what you said, just trying to avoid a long, pointless argument that will eventually sink into bickering about UNIT Dating. (All DW continuity debates eventually end up bickering about UNIT Dating. It's DW fandom's equivalent of Goodwin's Law.)

Oh, let's get it over with...

The tenth Doctor couldn't remember whether his third incarnation worked for UNIT in the seventies or the eighties. Yes, that was an in-joke, but it's still evidence he doesn't always have a perfect memory.

Hum, guy. by Hardric on 2015-10-14 09:26:00 UTC Reply

I suppose you did not want to sound like this, but this post feel a bit too rude. You say that there is no solid proof of eidetic memory for the Time Lords, and that continuity can be really screwed if we think about this too hard, fine, you are making your point alright, but here you're treating the other side of the debate like fanbrats without any ability for judgement and discussion.

Once again, this only the feel I get, I sure hope I'm dead wrong, and I'm sorry for bringing this up.

Last point, you ranted in the first place because Des said Time Lords got eidetic memory... Sorry for rocking your boat, but it's not exactly the first time it was mentioned in a mission, the Reader and second Rina/Aviator were also talking about this, and this is even a major point in Rina's slipping, so why did you let this past for ranting about this now?

I apologize if I'm being rude here, but you seemed to ignore past references to this ability in other missions, so it feels really unfair now you're shooting down Des for this reason.
Semaphore. by Huinesoron on 2015-10-14 07:42:00 UTC Reply

The Twelfth Doctor has very recently (2 episodes ago) explicitly stated that he's forgotten sign language in favour of semaphore. This proves two things:

1/ Time Lords are capable of forgetting things.

2/ Time Lords (at least sometimes) get to choose what they forget.

You may notice that this supports both sides equally. "Do not go to the Elves for counsel..."

hS

Great job. by Hardric on 2015-10-13 15:40:00 UTC Reply

It's good seeing more of fleshy Desdendelle, and his reaction to the LMM mess, and being sent in such a stupid mess. Would he happen to be interested by some White dragon tea? (Oh, the crest on the boxes? Well, it's not exactly as if Hou-Ting can complain now, right?)
As for the Librarian... *begins whacking his head with my canne* I'll let you know that even a single live of the "faker", especially her human one, is worth all of your thirteen wastes of oxygen.
(Seriously, this guy is always so fun to dislike, and I'm really curious of what thing he showed to the Reader to earn her pity like this, hope you'll write this.)
Congratulations! by eatpraylove on 2015-10-13 14:19:00 UTC Reply

A Star Wars/Doctor Who crossover sounds like it could go any number of interesting/awesome places. It's such a shame that characters like her have to muck it all up.

It's also a shame that Des is all broken up over Rina's death/disappearance/whatever the heck happened. Would some Bleepolate and a hug help? *politely hugs agent!Des* *also smacks the Librarian for being a jackass*
So Rina's a "faker," is she? by Tira on 2015-10-13 13:58:00 UTC Reply

The Librarian's going to start calling people mongrels next, if he hasn't already.

On the subject of the actual mission, good job. It's very solid, and it's nice to see the Librarian be slightly less of an ass. He might not care much for Rina, but I do think he likes Des, at least on some level.