Not really.

Subject: Not really.
Author: TheShyIon
Posted on: 2015-09-01 05:26:00 UTC

The way action departments work is "withstand the fic, read charges, kill the Sue/exorcise the canons/etc.," right?

So. Imagine that hypothetical Agent Dinah here is autistic. She has sensory problems, is nonverbal, and wouldn't be able to handle the stress of combat.

But she can still kill a Sue. She wears headphones and uses the Words as subtitles if she needs to, uses sign language to talk to her partner, and her partner reads the charges at the end before Dinah drops our little Sue into our volcano with her RA. Furthermore, if the canon is one of her special interests, she probably knows it very well.

Yes, she probably relies on her partner for a lot of things. But that doesn't mean she's unsuitable.

(Also, Asperger's Syndrome is just autism now. It's a somewhat outdated diagnosis, and while some people still identify with it. And... I'm sorta concerned that you're saying that we're suffering here. Please tell me that that's just me reading it badly! :P )

Reply Return to messages

Jump to this post's position in the thread ↴

On Writing Autistic Characters by Calista on 2015-08-30 15:23:00 UTC Reply

So I wrote an essay on writing. (Ooh. Recursiveness.) And I'm hoping to get some feedback.

I keep seeing badly-written autistic characters, and it bugs me; therefore, I wrote a guide to good autistic characters.

Any thoughts, replies, concrit, etc., are appreciated.

RE: Autism by dramaticsoprano on 2015-09-01 01:36:00 UTC Reply

I myself struggle with Autism, so if you have any questions whatsoever, feel free to ask.
I have a suggestion. by James Shields on 2015-08-31 16:00:00 UTC Reply

This is really well written and well researched. I think it is important to raise awareness around representation of autism on all fronts, including fiction. Though I have not encountered them myself, I too have heard about the misrepresentation and steriotypes affecting autistic characters.

I think that maybe you could continue to delve into this issue by analysing both good and bad examples in depth to show what should and shouldn't be done.

For good examples in published fiction, I can offer Max Braverman from the TV series Parenthood and Hikaru Azuma from the manga With The Light

On the fanfiction side of things, both Riko Tasogare from Twilight Pretty Cure and Chika Senri from Puzzle Hunt Precure have been praised for providing good portrayals of neurodiverse characters.
Ooh by firemagic on 2015-08-30 20:17:00 UTC Reply

This is well-done! I think I've known I was autistic for a few years now (though good luck getting parents to believe that - when I was in middle school I had a test for that and autism was disqualified on the basis that I was capable of making jokes/conversation, which... ugh.)

The only thing I can think of that might be worth elaborating more on is the fact that being autistic and happy are not mutually exclusive (and not happy in the too-dumb-to-be-otherwise sense.) Because a lot of people seem to think that autism is a permanent misery for everyone involved, except when it's ~*INSPIRATIONAL*~.
Thank you! ^^ by SMF on 2015-08-30 18:48:00 UTC Reply

That was a very good, on-point piece, and covers pretty much what I've heard from my (also autistic or otherwise non-neurotypical) friends already.

We're a spectrum, not a scenario!
Look at Valon. by Voyd on 2015-08-30 18:10:00 UTC Reply

He is all my good and bad points writ large, including my autism.

I have Asperger's, and thus Valon does as well. I'm very high-functioning, and I'm normal for the most part. The things that stick out are my lack of common sense and the fact that my mind is incredibly surreal (reread my fourth mission). Also the fact that I am very inept in social settings, and prefer to be alone, sometimes with a friend or two.

The only way I can tolerate more people is if they're all weirdos like me, or if they share one of my obsessions. Pathfinder, for instance.
You make good points. by Iximaz on 2015-08-30 16:15:00 UTC Reply

Story time: my first serious boyfriend was a sweet guy. He was shy, but he loved hanging out with his friends; we and a mutual buddy got together one Halloween to dress up in menacing robes and scare little kids. ^^; Lots of fun.

He was a very talented saxophone player, and a fan of the Beatles; he drove everyone in band crazy by constantly playing "Yellow Submarine" during individual warmups (though the one time he didn't, everyone freaked out, heh heh). He was a huge Lord of the Rings fan and an avid Minecraft player. He had two dogs that he loved, a little sister (who... actually ended up dating my little brother for a few months, that was cute. But weird. But also cute.), and very nice parents.

All in all, a pretty normal guy. He is also autistic, and I didn't find out until about a year and a half after we broke up.

My brother was also tested for autism and he narrowly avoided being diagnosed with Asberger's, and he later told me he cheated because he didn't want to be labeled a 'crazy' like me. So it's very possible I have an autistic brother as well. Aside from liking to make hilariously inappropriate jokes at the worst possible times, he's also pretty normal. Very smart kid, straight As, lots and lots of Advanced Placement classes, plays tennis for the varsity team, and he's built himself a couple of robots as well. He loves to play World of Warcraft and Minecraft, and he has the D&D fourth edition Monster Manual memorized.

You wouldn't look at this stuff and say "Aha! Autistic!" You'd say "Yeah, he's a geek."

My dad has a friend whose son (a few years older than me) is also autistic, and the only clue to people who don't know is that he sometimes has to get away from a loud party by going to a separate room. And considering I'm the same way, albeit for different reasons, it's not a massive tip-off by itself.

Tl;dr, you can't always tell. :)

Autism can be quite subtle. :) by Calista on 2015-08-30 17:17:00 UTC Reply

You know how they talk about an "autism epidemic" and all that? Most of that is new diagnosis in mild cases, which beforehand would not have been diagnosed because the disability associated with it is mild and the individual usually only needs intermittent support. The other part of it is the decrease in intellectual disability (UK would call it "learning disability") cases, which are increasingly being recognized as autism. So, increasing awareness has put autism in the public eye, and of course they will be writing about it.

I went undiagnosed until 23 years old, myself, though that was mostly because my mom (who as an occupational therapist had worked with autistic children) was so paranoid of having me "labled" that she took me out of school to avoid evaluations. That and because if I stayed in, sooner or later someone would believe me about what things were like at home. Let's just say I'm glad to be on my own, hey? :)

The trouble with writing about autism is that we're just at the beginning of working specifically for autism rights/autism acceptance, and that much of the "awareness" out there is fear/pity hype. So you get a subject that a lot of people are thinking about, but about which there's not a lot of unembellished, everyday-life information. The result is skewed characterization and messed-up writing from authors who don't do their research.

I think the trick to writing an autistic character... by Scapegrace on 2015-08-31 12:31:00 UTC Reply

Is first figuring out where on the autistic spectrum they fall, and how it will affect their work. Taking the PPC as an example, someone severely autistic would be completely unsuitable for work in an action department, but might find a calling in one of the quieter bits of DoSAT or FicPsych. Whatever they want, really. Contrast someone who "only" has Asperger's Syndrome; it would be interesting to see how someone like that can function in an action department.

Of course, in a comedy setting, it's trickier - you don't want to make jokes about other people's suffering.

Not really. by TheShyIon on 2015-09-01 05:26:00 UTC Reply

The way action departments work is "withstand the fic, read charges, kill the Sue/exorcise the canons/etc.," right?

So. Imagine that hypothetical Agent Dinah here is autistic. She has sensory problems, is nonverbal, and wouldn't be able to handle the stress of combat.

But she can still kill a Sue. She wears headphones and uses the Words as subtitles if she needs to, uses sign language to talk to her partner, and her partner reads the charges at the end before Dinah drops our little Sue into our volcano with her RA. Furthermore, if the canon is one of her special interests, she probably knows it very well.

Yes, she probably relies on her partner for a lot of things. But that doesn't mean she's unsuitable.

(Also, Asperger's Syndrome is just autism now. It's a somewhat outdated diagnosis, and while some people still identify with it. And... I'm sorta concerned that you're saying that we're suffering here. Please tell me that that's just me reading it badly! :P )

Agent Dinah sounds really interesting! (nm) by Alleb on 2015-09-04 19:29:00 UTC Reply

Sadly, she was just an example. :P (nm) by TheShyIon on 2015-09-04 20:40:00 UTC Reply

I know, by Alleb on 2015-09-04 21:08:00 UTC Reply

but if you ever write a mission for her, I'd like to read it!

Why's that? by firemagic on 2015-08-31 21:53:00 UTC Reply

I mean, for one thing 'severely' autistic is generally a useless measurement. Do you mean someone nonverbal? Because that really wouldn't interfere as long as their partner understood them. And they could be affected more by Sue phenomenons, but then there are a lot of Agents who have heightened senses that are bothered by that kind of thing.

Also, don't most Agents work in 'whatever they want'? I mean, there doesn't seem to be too much in the way of someone transferring departments as a matter of course.

...We make jokes about people's suffering all the time. That's kind of part of the PPC's humor, how overworked the Agents are and how bad their jobs are.

Not to mention teaching people... by N. Harmonik on 2015-08-30 17:39:00 UTC Reply

...that autism is NOT caused by vaccines and that, even if it was, it's NOT worse than dying from a preventable disease!!

Requisite linking of by doctorlit on 2015-08-31 14:20:00 UTC Reply

"If Anti-Vaccine Parents Rode the Magic School Bus".

Also, requisite plugging of Kippur's book again, because . . . it's technically on topic? And . . . SEND KIPPUR MONEY

*snort* (nm) (nm) by N. Harmonik on 2015-08-31 18:03:00 UTC Reply

*snatches bag of NM&NMs* by domirossi on 2015-08-31 19:25:00 UTC Reply

I think I'm gonna need those, I'm gonna read some badfic for a potential future mission.

Oh gosh, I see *so* many bad ones. D: by TheShyIon on 2015-08-30 15:25:00 UTC Reply

May I have the link?

*points to link below* Sorry! (nm) by Calista on 2015-08-30 15:35:00 UTC Reply

It's no problem. by TheShyIon on 2015-08-30 16:12:00 UTC Reply

I was writing the post while the link went up. I don't have the spoons to give any in-depth critique right now, but I enjoyed it immensely. While my own trouble with autistic-character-writing is "oh gosh, I see none written well and I feel like I'm relying on my own experience too much," it is *really* useful to see someone else put into words how I've been feeling about how people write us.

Have you seen a site called "Disability in Kid Lit?" They've done quite a bit on books with autistic characters, and have (IIRC) found a few that they thought were quite good.

And forgot the link. by Calista on 2015-08-30 15:24:00 UTC Reply

On Writing Autistic Characters

There is now a link.

THANK YOU!!! by N. Harmonik on 2015-08-30 17:35:00 UTC Reply

Granted, I haven't read or watched that many stories where an autistic person is a main character so I'm less annoyed by the stereotypes you described than I should be but I loved the essay anyway. And, yes, I'm an Aspie.