There's a few more points worth mentioning.

Subject: There's a few more points worth mentioning.
Author: Scapegrace
Posted on: 2017-03-29 12:03:00 UTC

When it comes to building weird sets, there's no better mon for the job than Smeargle. Sure, its stats are fairly garbage, but through Sketch it can learn almost ANY move (there are some exceptions, but I forget precisely what they are). You can get a few moves that change the opponent's type - Soak, Forest's Curse, and Trick Or Treat all change the opponent's type rather than your own, and since your objective with this is to keep them off-balance and off their guard, these moves are very definitely your friends. Well, maybe not Trick Or Treat, but wevs. =]

As you rightly attest, Kecleon's abilities make it really fit in with the theme, but it's not the only person to get them - Greninja is a really cool Pokémon and popular in OU for exactly this reason. Access to Protean allows you to constantly deal extra damage from your attacks, switching it up constantly. It's a really powerful ability and I think you could do a lot worse than have a Protean user on your team, though there isn't one that learns Metronome apart from top kek. =]

This has been really enlightening discussion - thinking about battling ideas that are weird and unexpected is good for both of us! =]

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For the PPC tournament... by Hardric on 2017-03-26 17:21:00 UTC Reply

Sorry about that, but I saw I forgot to add my team's composition, so here it is:

Chandelure
Gengar
Cofagrigus
Jellicent
Sableye
Golurk
Alola-Marowak

That would make me the 10th member of the tournament... Anybody else interested?

Added. Reminder that tournament signups end in April. by Iximaz on 2017-03-27 03:52:00 UTC Reply

The rules and signups document can be found here.

Oh dear. Ten? by Huinesoron on 2017-03-27 15:20:00 UTC Reply

That's going to make for a seriously messed-up bracket. There is only one solution: I'm going to have to replace my entire team with Pokemon whose skill is Intimidate and force two people to drop out. >:D

... maybe not?

...so the trollish nature of that idea leads me to another, even trollishier idea: making a team where every member knows Explosion, which they will use at will. It's perfectly legal unless it forces a tie! I'm sure there's something in all of Pokedom that will prevent an Exploding Pokemon from fainting... :D :D :D

(Will not be doing this. Hilarious though it would be.)

(Reminder that there is no such PPCer as 'Storme Hawk' - what kind of ludicrous name is that?! ^_~ Does that count as a mini-Novastorme?)

hS

Whoops. by Iximaz on 2017-03-27 15:26:00 UTC Reply

Thanks for the reminder, I forgot he changed his username. -_-

(And just as a heads-up, if you do go the Explosion route, I will make a team of all Pokémon that have the Damp ability. Nyah.)

Oh but it's not that easy. by Huinesoron on 2017-03-27 15:45:00 UTC Reply

Entrainment. Simple Beam. Worry Seed. Arguably Mummy, though Cofagrigus can't learn Explosion. It can pick up Destiny Bond, though, which also isn't strictly banned... though it rather makes negating Damp a bit pointless. ^_~;

Your move.

hS

Ghost-types. Your move. by Scapegrace on 2017-03-27 19:10:00 UTC Reply

More seriously, it's not actually possible to win a battle with just suicide mons. Leaving aside physical walls, types that resist or are immune to Normal-type moves (your exception there being Mega Glalie, which gets an Ice-type boom courtesy of Refrigerate), and moves like Protect, you can, at best, get a draw - and because you killed your own 'mon to do it, it still counts as a loss for you.

It's a nice idea, but there are much more irritating troll teams out there. Paraflinch-heavy teams, for instance. Those are the strongest arguments against the existence of a kind and loving god. =]

Nah, I'm not trolling the match. by Huinesoron on 2017-03-27 20:19:00 UTC Reply

I'm trolling the tournament rules, which specifically allow Explosion except under certain circumstances. This is a team that would provoke repeated "that's not allowed"s, even though it is. ^^

Oh, and: <a href="http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Foresight(move)">Foresight. Odor Sleuth. Scrappy, though that one's rare enough that it might not pair with Explosion. Over to you.

Mega-Glalie is totes going on the team. ^_^ Iceplosion outta nowhere! (Also the image of blowing a mega-evolved, full-health Pokemon up just amuses me immensely.)

hS

Jellicent. by Scapegrace on 2017-03-28 12:21:00 UTC Reply

Ghost-type and has Damp. While there are a few Pokémon with ability-negation attributes, some with Ghost-type negation attribute, and some that can blow themselves up, I don't think there are any that can use all three. =]

Aha! You'd think so, but you are by Huinesoron on 2017-03-28 13:16:00 UTC Reply

right. :(

The Pokemon lines which can both negate Damp and hit Ghosts are: Psyduck, Zigzagoon, Skitty, Spoink, Buneary, Deerling, Sawsbuck, and Pancham. None of them are also capable of blowing themselves up. :(

Though they should be. I want an exploding Zigzagoon.

... but wait! What about Pokemon who learn Skill Swap? They could steal Damp, swap out, and come back able to go kablooey! Ha-HA!

... which adds Venonat, Duskull, and Spritzee, none of which are detonatable. :( You win this round, Jelliscape.

(Though, there's always Metronome... :D :D :D)

hS

If you make a full Metronome team I will love you forever =] (nm by Scapegrace on 2017-03-28 21:11:00 UTC Reply

Highly unlikely to ever use, but... by Huinesoron on 2017-03-29 10:17:00 UTC Reply

HYPNO (Psychic)
-Metronome
-Assist
-Skill Swap
-Future Sight

GOLEM (Rock/Ground)
-Metronome
-Explosion
-Hidden Power (Electric)
-Magnitude

TOGEKISS (Fairy/Flying)
-Metronome
-Fling
-Covet
-Telekinesis

SPINDA (Normal)
-Metronome
-Teeter Dance
-Hidden Power (Ghost)
-Last Resort

HITMONCHAN (Fighting)
-Metronome
-Mega Kick
-Role Play
-Mimic

LUDICOLO (Grass/Water)
-Metronome
-Knock Off
-Attract
-Snore

The theme here, of course, is 'I have no idea what's happening'. All six Pokemon lean heavily on Metronome, but also have other specialities/reasons they're bewildering:

-Hypno will nick your Ability, chuck another monster's move at you, and then you get hit out of nowhere by the attack you were too confused to remember it used.
-Golem will hit you with the RNG of attack strength, then suddenly lightning - and then it explodes, probably while you're a Ghost-type and can't be hit by it.
-Togekiss will chuck its item at you, nick yours to replace it, then levitate you into the air and hit you with Metronome three times for mostly-guaranteed hits.
-Spinda will literally confuse you, turn into a ghost to hit you, and then out of nowhere hit you with massive power.
-Hitmonchan will copy your moves and your ability - and then kick you, because it's also roleplaying as Hitmonlee today.
-Ludicolo will make you love it, throw your item away, and come after you if you try to put it to sleep.

They say the world's greatest swordsman doesn't fear the world's second-greatest swordsman - he fears the world's worst, because he has no idea what the idiot will do.

Well, this is Team Worst Swordsman. They could be anything.

hS

Y'see, that? That's an awesome team. by Scapegrace on 2017-03-29 10:35:00 UTC Reply

There aren't that many ways around it. It's just such a shame Arcanine or Typhlosion doesn't learn Metronome; if it did, you could use Burn Up, a very powerful and highly accurate move that makes Fire-type Pokémon lose their Fire typing. Which is pretty cool.

"There aren't that many ways around it." by Huinesoron on 2017-03-29 10:55:00 UTC Reply

Quite how you'd even try to work around a team that can literally throw any move in the game* at you, I'm not sure...

*Minus a few, I know.

See, now you're making me want to revamp it so that they both Metronome you out the door, and randomly change various at will. Togekiss can learn Roost and stop being flying... and that Telekinesis is a sort of pseudo-Flying-imparter... but wow, the type-changing moves are really restricted.

Kecleon can learn both Metronome and Reflect Type, plus of course its Abilities would make it the mascot for that team... tell you what, let's add a seventh member:

KECLEON (Normal, Colour Change)
-Metronome
-Reflect Type
-Skill Swap
-Synchronise

What type are you? Oh, looks like I'm the same now! SYNCHRONISE TO THE FACE.

(Attack pattern is Skill Swap > Metronome until the target is weak to Psychic > Reflect Type > SYNCHRONISE TO THE FACE.)

hS

There's a few more points worth mentioning. by Scapegrace on 2017-03-29 12:03:00 UTC Reply

When it comes to building weird sets, there's no better mon for the job than Smeargle. Sure, its stats are fairly garbage, but through Sketch it can learn almost ANY move (there are some exceptions, but I forget precisely what they are). You can get a few moves that change the opponent's type - Soak, Forest's Curse, and Trick Or Treat all change the opponent's type rather than your own, and since your objective with this is to keep them off-balance and off their guard, these moves are very definitely your friends. Well, maybe not Trick Or Treat, but wevs. =]

As you rightly attest, Kecleon's abilities make it really fit in with the theme, but it's not the only person to get them - Greninja is a really cool Pokémon and popular in OU for exactly this reason. Access to Protean allows you to constantly deal extra damage from your attacks, switching it up constantly. It's a really powerful ability and I think you could do a lot worse than have a Protean user on your team, though there isn't one that learns Metronome apart from top kek. =]

This has been really enlightening discussion - thinking about battling ideas that are weird and unexpected is good for both of us! =]

Nah, Smeargle is cheating. by Huinesoron on 2017-03-29 12:20:00 UTC Reply

Unless there's a really solid set of four moves that you can't get anywhere else, I don't think I'd want it on the team. Though, that said, the Soak-F'Curse-ToT-Metronome setup would be suitably hilarious. Sure, Smeargle couldn't take advantage of it, but it'd be worth it to see the look on their faces! Maybe. Sorta.

I did debate between Protean and Colour Change for Kecleon, but Protean looks too much like it might be useful. It's far funnier to shove Colour Change on the opponent than to boost my own attacks. And this conversation is alll about fun.

I will gleefully offer to fight your tournament team with Team Worst Swordsman.

hS

PS: Apropos the start of this conversation: in addition to Mega-Glalie's Refrigerate Explosion, it seems Alolan Golem can use Galvanize to make an electric-type Explosion. Sadly it can't learn Metronome, otherwise I would absolutely have used it here.

Challenge absolutely accepted! by Scapegrace on 2017-03-29 12:37:00 UTC Reply

This'll be a right laugh. Also, I miiiiiiight have named everyone on my team after the House Robots. I'm not obsessed, you're obsessed, I'VE NOT DOWNLOADED A CAD PROGRAM TO BUILD AN ANGRY BREADBIN WHY DO PEOPLE KEEP ASKING THAT? =]

I think I've got an answer to the individual Pokémon on Team Worst Swordsman, but not the moves. Obviously. Either way up, it'll be a ton of fun to fight. =]

I can't believe I forgot Alolan Golem! So dumb of me. I've just got this massive blind spot when it comes to that Pokémon, and I have no idea why. Anyway, apropos Alola, there's another couple of abilities that could fit right in - Alolan Muk and Passimian. Their abilities allow them to take on the ability of a dead target or teammate respectively, which is surprisingly useful. =]

I put them together on Showdown... by Huinesoron on 2017-03-30 09:30:00 UTC Reply

... and fought against my tournament team. Turns out they have a glaring shared weakness to Giant Stompy Kaiju - Tyranitar is faster than most of them and can one-hit almost the entire team.

Part of the problem is that I let some of them focus on defence. Pfft, who needs that? If we're going full ridiculous, then we need to be all about the (Sp)Attack and Speed - get in fast, hit the enemy with a Metronome, and hope it's a good one.

I did have to make a couple of changes to the team, too - apparently Metronome isn't compatible with using a hidden ability, and Kecleon isn't allowed both Reflect Type and... either Skill Swap or Synchronise, not sure.

Still, I've managed to sneak a few extra surprises into the hold items... heh heh heh...

hS

Anyway, we should set a date and time for the challenge. by Scapegrace on 2017-03-30 09:43:00 UTC Reply

How does tonight at 7:00 pm GMT sound? =]

Uhm. by Huinesoron on 2017-03-30 09:49:00 UTC Reply

Can we make it eight? Might still be eating tea at 7.

hS

Sure! Whenever's convenient for you. =] (nm) by Scapegrace on 2017-03-30 09:50:00 UTC Reply

I'm around now. (As Huinesoron, of course) (nm) by Huinesoron on 2017-03-30 19:22:00 UTC Reply

Lemme guess: the held item Metronome shows up. =] (nm) by Scapegrace on 2017-03-30 09:42:00 UTC Reply

Actually, no. by Huinesoron on 2017-03-30 09:48:00 UTC Reply

It's very tempting, but it seems it doesn't boost Metronome-the-move, so it wouldn't be any use at all. I'm trying to make them at least slightly helpful. ;)

(Might shove one of the OHKO-protectors in there somewhere to avoid the Tyranitar effect, though...)

hS

Hmmm... by Scapegrace on 2017-03-30 09:55:00 UTC Reply

I'm guessing there might be some weird stuff like Eject Button and Red Card. I need to look through the item registry again, there's a bounty of odd items in there. My favourite back in Gen 5 was Flame Orb Sigilyph with Psycho Shift, which allowed it to burn the opponent reliably. It was great for crippling physical attackers, and it might still work in Gen 7 now that the Burn status's damage has been nerfed. =]

I yield. (nm) by Iximaz on 2017-03-27 16:17:00 UTC Reply

Aww. :( (nm) by Huinesoron on 2017-03-27 16:42:00 UTC Reply