Eeeep! Wait... are we talking in terms of lore or gameplay?

Talion and Celebrimbor are back! by Matt Cipher on 2017-02-27 16:14:00 UTC Reply

*steals Pinkie Pie's Party Cannon!*

A sequel to a pretty fantastic Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor has been scheduled for release in AUGUST, 2017!!!

And there's a trailer: by Huinesoron on 2017-02-27 16:56:00 UTC Reply

eg here

Which raises an important question:

What do the Tengwar say?

(What, you thought there was any question more important?)

The text on the anvil is fairly predictable - it's the Ring inscription. The lower-right segment is readable as 'ashnazggimbatul', which... yeah.

The ring itself, though... (oh, btw, that's a New Ring of Power - where does that come on the charge lists? ^^ But if there's one person allowed to make one...) well, it's not part of the Ring text, and it's not even written in the same mode. Note the lack of vowel-signs over any of the letters.

Instead, it looks like the Mode of Beleriand - the mode used for the inscription on the Doors of Moria, so points there. It says:

... mmof cwch hw(?) (?)occh...

... which you may note is gibberish.

Okay, so maybe it's upside-down? Except it can't be, because there's a very clear hwesta sindarinwa in there - it's the one that looks like a lowercase d with a tail.

It's not a portion of the inscription on the Doors of Durin, clever though that would be. So let's try the next theory: that it's actually English text typed using a Tengwar font. This is an unfortunately common problem: Tengwar fonts are laid out differently (so the series 1 't-p-c-q' runs along the first column of the keyboard, '1-q-a-z'), so it's worth a stab:

...em the and of Shad...

Dingdingding! There it is. It's pretty clear that last word is 'Shadow' (capital included - it's the weird both-up-and-down letter on the last word visible). Hilariously, this means the word front-and-centre is actually 'and' - nice symbolism there, guys!

Looking through the trailer again, there's another shot that shows a little of the word at the start - I see '... deem', and while it's not legible in its own right, the word 'redeem' would fit the letter-forms. (Suddenly I know how Christopher Tolkien feels trying to interpret his father's writing!) I think that 'and' is supposed to be 'Land' - capital-L gives a dot on the font I'm using, so they could've cut it out.

Going back a bit earlier in the trailer, we can get a decent read during the next-to-last strike of the hammer - it actually shows the same side of the ring, and confirms the 'Shadow' reading. There might be an extra letter on the end, but it's definitely not 's'; I'm guessing it's just a flourish. It also shows us the inside of the ring, which sadly seems to be mirrored.

So! The New Ring is inscribed to 'redeem the land of Shadow', by someone who doesn't read very well. So now we know. ^^

hS

PS: Oh, yeah, was the first game any good?

Eeeep! Wait... are we talking in terms of lore or gameplay? by Matt Cipher on 2017-02-27 17:04:00 UTC Reply

Because the latter it's pretty darn sweet - the combat is simple, the open world is really neat and the Nemesis System is arguably the best element the studio had done: it ranks the Uruks in sections, each led by a Warchief or a Captain and if you take one out an Uruk of lower status will be promoted to the spot if you take too long or die.

As far as I know, some criticism was aimed at the story and boss battles. I know one Grump here (coughDescough) who is not the fan of the game's story connecting to the lore.

*grumpy grump grumps* (nm) by Desdendelle on 2017-02-27 19:33:00 UTC Reply

So what's the cause of the grumping, then? (nm) by Huinesoron on 2017-02-28 12:09:00 UTC Reply

It's basically just wrong about nearly everything. by Neshomeh on 2017-02-28 16:29:00 UTC Reply

I haven't played the game, nor heard anything about it for a while, but what I did pick up back when it came out makes me curl my lip. It doesn't feel like the Middle-earth we know at all. This thread on Stack Exchange should shed some light on it: http://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/70777/how-well-does-shadow-of-mordor-fit-into-middle-earth-canon

War in the North is a much better M-e game lore-wise, though I understand the gameplay leaves something to be desired.

~Neshomeh

And Huinesoron said, Let there be analysis. by Huinesoron on 2017-03-01 09:37:00 UTC Reply

And there was analysis.

So it looks like the issues fall into a few major areas:

1. Mordor is a lovely place until that nasty dude Sauron comes back after the fall of Dol Guldur. This is massive time compression, obviously - but I think it also follows the precedent of the Hobbit films. Remember 'gasp, there's SPIDERS in MIRKWOOD?!?!'? It's pretty clear that in the Movieverse, everyone's opinion is that Sauron and everything associated with him (eg, the Nazgul) are dead, dead, dead. M-e has been a lovely partyland for millennia.

Is that wrong? Heck yeah. But can we fault a movieverse game for following the movieverse premise? ~~Yes of course we can!~~ It's tricky to justify.

2/ Celebrimbor. The game has him a) associated with forging the One Ring, and b) hanging around Middle-earth after dying.

As far as a) goes, while 'Brim's knowledge was used by Sauron to make the One, that's as far as it goes. The only contact 'Brim had with Sauron after the latter went off to make the One was when he was captured, tortured, and murdered during the fall of Eregion, well after the One was forged. So... no.

For b), this is actually possible! The idea that Sauron (or Morgoth) could stop elven spirits from heading to Mandos - or that they could refuse the call themselves, if they were messed up enough - is mentioned in HoME. And if there's anyone Sauron would one to force to stick around - and, for that matter, anyone whose family history might make him do it of his own accord...

c) Gollum hanging out in Mordor. This is... accurate? I mean, people are complaining about it, but after Bilbo took the Ring, Gollum left his cave and made his way to Mordor. He was captured there, but nothing says he was captured immediately. And we know what a fawning stinker he can be (though the idea that he could see a wraith is... problematic).

d) General feel. Black magic, mind control, Sauron's groovy lieutenants, the "good guy" murdering his way through Mordor, the whole resurrection malarkey... you could probably justify each bit of it by reference to various chunks of canon (Sauron was called the Necromancer, afte rall), but put together it feels... yeah, wrong. The magic in particular - I've just (re)played the Battle for Middle-earth II: Rise of the Witch-king campaign, and the Angmar Sorcerers, while cool, give off the same vibe: it's something that's never even been hinted at in canon, and feels like an imposition from some other world.

I'm inclined to agree that it has capital-p Problems with canon, and that the sequel will only make things worse. It looks like the issues get bigger in the details, too, which would bother me immensely.

I see it's available on Steam; I've put it on my watchlist. Maybe if it drops down to £5 or so I'll buy it and find out for myself.

hS

Clock test. (nm) by Huinesoron on 2017-03-13 17:07:00 UTC Reply

Excellent resume of the adventures of the Half-Nazgul. by Hardric on 2017-02-27 21:15:00 UTC Reply

((Yes, I know it's not exact, or his name of subtle foreshadowing is Talion. The plot remains... doubtful.))