Paper Mario was, at its core, an RPG.

Subject: Paper Mario was, at its core, an RPG.
Author: SeaTurtle
Posted on: 2016-08-05 13:27:00 UTC

Mario levelled up, gained companions, explored large worlds filled with NPCs, and the game actually had a concrete plot and chapters had interesting twists: for example, the Glitz Pit and Excess Express chapters in TTYD and the Shy Guy toybox of PM1 stand out in particular. It was fun-- and your companions made the ride even more memorable.

SPM was a platformer/RPG hybrid. Not a terrible game-- I actually like it-- but I wanted a bit more focus on the RPG side of things.

With Sticker Star, we have none of the above. No levelling up, combat is entirely item-based, no companions, no complex plot like the previous instalments, no open world to explore. I was promised an RPG-- instead, I felt cheated.

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Opinions on new Paper Mario? by OrangeYoshi99 on 2016-08-04 22:30:00 UTC Reply

Yaaaay. Sticker star 2.0. Dull suprise. And yet, somehow I have hope. But only some.

I yearn for the days of the original... by SeaTurtle on 2016-08-04 23:21:00 UTC Reply

...or its masterpiece sequel, Thousand Year Door.

No gimmicks. No minigames. Just action.

In my opinion, Super Paper Mario is The Best. by DCCCV on 2016-08-05 01:44:00 UTC Reply

It was the first game I played that had a plot.

Me too! by Seafarer on 2016-08-05 05:19:00 UTC Reply

...because it's the only Paper Mario I've played.
I like it on its own merits, though. It has a great soundtrack and a pretty dark plot for a Mario game. I tend to get annoyed when people claim it's where the series started going downhill, because it was really fun!

Stop making me look like an elitist, guys. by SeaTurtle on 2016-08-05 13:36:00 UTC Reply

I feel really bad about saying this, but you have to see what PM1 and TTYD were like to see how much the series has diverged from its roots.

I'm not saying that SPM was a bad game-- on the contrary. It was a twist on the first two games' RPG style and kept the charm and humour of the series alive, but some people preferred the turn-based combat of the first two, myself included.

And then Sticker Star came along...

Elitist turtle spotted! by Desdendelle on 2016-08-06 06:02:00 UTC Reply

Hoi, where did you get that picture? by SeaTurtle on 2016-08-06 16:37:00 UTC Reply

Gee, thanks for posting my beautiful face all over the internet. How shall I ever live in privacy now?

I'd say that... by Seafarer on 2016-08-06 02:32:00 UTC Reply

Paper Mario and TTYD were more divergent from the series' roots than SPM, given that the series' roots were a couple of platformers. :-P
And don't worry; you're not an elitist until you say that we're not allowed to like SPM because we haven't played the first two.

Ah yes, but... by SeaTurtle on 2016-08-06 16:35:00 UTC Reply

... PM was a spinoff designed to be an RPG and so was TTYD. SPM and SS broke the trend :P

That being said, do try to get your hands on a copy of TTYD or PM. I know that the latter is available on the Wii and Wii U's virtual console platform. Treat yourselves to the masterpieces!

It's on my list. by Seafarer on 2016-08-06 21:12:00 UTC Reply

However, both of them are traditional JRPGs (which I've recently found myself being terribly slow to complete) on consoles (when I far prefer handhelds for their portability), and my backlog is sufficiently large that I'm not keen on getting more games right now (I don't ever want to go over 20 unfinished games again).

(Plus my brain keeps saying "fireemblemfireemblemfireemblemfireemblem...")

Heh, Fire Emblem. by SeaTurtle on 2016-08-07 02:51:00 UTC Reply

Excellent choice! Which title are you playing at the moment? I'm currently halfway through the Conquest plotline of Fates. It's really a pain, since I am firmly a Hoshido supporter (aside from the obvious Revelation-is-the-best-outcome) and that the flimsy excuses that are thrown up to support the invasion of Hoshido are... nonsensical to say the least.

Then again, the writing in Fates isn't exactly stellar so...

On Fates. by Seafarer on 2016-08-07 05:51:00 UTC Reply

Yeah, the writing's bad. Twilight-level bad, in some cases (the worship of the royals springs to mind).

It's really a shame that they didn't do a better job of making the two routes more morally ambiguous, rather than black-and-white. Conquest has some fantastic maps, though. Right now, I'm doing second runs on Normal to practise my class routing for higher difficulties. Just finished C10 on Conquest (man, screw Takumi).

And I really really really want to play Heirs of Fate, but I can't afford it. :-(

I'm actually considering getting that one actually. by SeaTurtle on 2016-08-07 16:33:00 UTC Reply

Oh boy, here we go delving into the Bad Ending Timeline DLC again...

Oh yeah, question: who are your favourite character(s) in Fates? On the Hoshido side of the border, it's Oboro while it's a tossup between Benny and Ignatius on the Nohr side.

All three of them can pretty much be airlifted to a hot zone and do considerable damage to anything that dares attack them. I call them my little ODST trio.

I really like archers in this game. by Seafarer on 2016-08-07 20:33:00 UTC Reply

So... Takumi and Niles. Especially Niles. And then Midori with a Killer Bow and Spendthrift... "My diagnosis? You're done!" after every single attack.

Other than archers, Elise is adorable, and her Mag is just ludicrous, so E-lock on Tomes isn't much hindrance. Effie hits like a truck, and of course Wary Fighter exists to keep her from being doubled. And Hinoka's grown on me, too.

But yeah, I call Takumi my eraser, because with Pursuer he can choose an enemy every round to simply delete, and Fujin Yumi's Acrobat effect is passive, so that irritating Waste terrain is no obstacle.

(Since you're playing Conquest, you'll really want a bow-user in C24. Be warned.)

And Ignatius? I've recruited him once, and that was after Endgame, so... his Paralogue was not fun.

Do give his supports a whirl. by SeaTurtle on 2016-08-08 02:50:00 UTC Reply

He's one of the more interesting characters in Fates— see his interactions with Asugi and Siegbert for the good stuff.

As for me, it's Ryoma keeps on dealing crits like a maniac. The Raijinto is such an OP weapon, it's ridiculous.

Lobster is OP, yes. by Seafarer on 2016-08-08 07:34:00 UTC Reply

So what's your favourite Fire Emblem? I've only played five of them, and so far, Gaiden is my number 1 (and FE1 is at the bottom, because man, it's terrible).

I jumped in the bandwagon really late. by SeaTurtle on 2016-08-08 11:56:00 UTC Reply

And as such, I have only played FE13 and 14, with the latter being my favourite entry in the series (pathwise, Revelation. Corny and cheesy to heck and back, but if you take it like a Saturday morning cartoon, it's a pretty fun ride). Plus, you really know you're a scrub when your favourite character in the series is Kellam...

Yes, yes, I know, shame on me for not playing through the classics and developing a taste of what true Fire Emblem is :P

I am eyeing some of the titles available on the Wii U's Virtual Console though. It looks like it's the two GBA releases: Rekka no Ken and Sacred Stones. Are these any good? I've been meaning to play some of the classics recently.

You mean 14 and 15... by Seafarer on 2016-08-08 21:00:00 UTC Reply

No, there's no shame in only having played those two. I'm not elitist (unless you haven't beaten Lunatic+ Awakening; then you're just a noob.) :-p

Honestly, Conquest without DLC is true Fire Emblem. It's probably the best in the series from a gameplay perspective; Attack and Guard Stance really added to it, especially since the enemy can do it too.

A lot of people will tell you that Blazing Sword is the greatest Fire Emblem game evar and you're a noob if you haven't played it... but I haven't played it, so I wouldn't know. I got Sacred Stones through the 3DS Ambassador Programme way back when, though, and it's pretty good. It has very similar grinding opportunities to Awakening, so it's overall pretty easy, too.

As for Shadow Dragon (which is also on Wii U VC), it's a remake of the first game in the series, and they pretty much decided to only update the graphics. I'd only recommend that one if you're really hardcore into the series. (never play fe1 it is seriously terrible)

(Wait you have a Wii U I thought I was the only one :-D)

Noted. by SeaTurtle on 2016-08-08 23:55:00 UTC Reply

...though I think I'll start by getting the second map pack for Fates. That's a good idea.

(There are dozens of us that own a Wii U! Dozens! Personally, I'm just waiting for Breath of the Wild to come out and knock my socks off. Until then, I guess that I'll languish in the lack of good games for the console :/)

Which brings us neatly back on topic. by Seafarer on 2016-08-09 00:16:00 UTC Reply

So how about that new Wii U Paper Mario? :-P

I've heard that ~~Chrom~~ Shigure sings at the end of HoF6. I'm looking forward to hearing it!

I watched the E3 gameplay. by SeaTurtle on 2016-08-09 03:42:00 UTC Reply

What I like:

-It looks like Paper Mario. I love how the characters' bodies behave like actual pieces of paper, I love the environment design, and I love the vibrancy of the colours here. Check.
-The dialogue and atmosphere are done right. Not much else to say here. Check.
-Breakdancing pig. Unexpected check.

What I dislike:

-THE CARDS THAT REPLACE THE ATTACKS UUUUUUGH
-No partners. The old turn-based battles made full use of each partner's strengths and weaknesses and forced you to be tactical about your choice; their absence makes combat a little bit more dull.
-Battle mechanics look repetitive and tedious. However, you have that colour meter thing that limits the use of certain attacks— this could prove to be interesting. Furthermore, if you only have access to a limited range of cards while on the offensive, that could force the player to develop some strategies...
-No obvious level-up system: why bother fighting enemies? What's the point if you don't get stronger as a character?
-ATTACK CARDS
-Seems to have an over-reliance on the colour hammer gimmick to make the thing interesting.
-Level-based world. Please, no, give us an open world again.
-Toads. Toads everywhere— the old entries in the series had a greater variety of friendly NPCs: Bomb-omb folk, Koopas, Paratroopas, Goombas, Boos, Doogans, Mowz, you name it. Their appearances made the world feel that much more alive, y'know?

Verdict:

I have mixed feelings. I want it to be good. What has been shown has some promise and could make the game fun on its own— but I don't think I'll be able to call this a proper PM game. The spectre of the dreaded Sticker Star looms above this title, casting a shadow of doubt over this entry.

I'll need to see the full release to make a decision.

As for Fire Emblem... Shigure singing? I'll have to see that. Is it really Matt Mercer singing, though? After his recent appearance as everybody's favourite fan-hammering, flashbang-slinging, time telling Hero from Overwatch I can't wrap my head around the concept of this guy voicing Shigure, of all people.

Yes it is. by Seafarer on 2016-08-09 04:01:00 UTC Reply

Keep in mind that Mercer also voices Azama - the guy is seriously versatile.

I'm tentatively optimistic about Colour Splash, though I don't approve of them being lazy about the PAL localisation. It's pretty clear that you preferred it when they were RPGs, but I reckon that they can take it in whatever direction they choose, so long as they do it right. So, yeah: cautiously optimistic, hoping they don't screw it up.

Maybe. Maybe. by SeaTurtle on 2016-08-10 04:21:00 UTC Reply

~~I still want a proper RPG, darn it~~

Aside from that, anything else you're looking forward to? For me, Yooka-Laylee is a big one: it's from the same team that made the venerable Banjo-Kazooie games and DK64.

The hype is unreal.

The Last Guardian by Seafarer on 2016-08-10 22:50:00 UTC Reply

So I watched Sony's E3 last year, and seeing TLG made me want a PS4.

I guess Pokémon, too, but it's starting to look like they're prioritising gimmicks for the sake of gimmickry. I am most upset about "IV training", which seems to me to imply genetic recombination.

(apparently I'm against a new game mechanic for moral reasons go figure)

What I learned today: by Seafarer on 2016-08-10 23:19:00 UTC Reply

Markup doesn't work if you're posting from a 3DS. The top line was meant to be:
~~Play Mario and Luigi, then.~~

Superstar Saga! by SeaTurtle on 2016-08-12 00:02:00 UTC Reply

Another great game. Oh, they don't make games like they used to.

I have to admit that I haven't been following Sun&Moon too closely-- I want it to be a surprise for when I'll get it. IV training sounds... good, actually. I'd like to be able to take the 'mons that have accompanied me along my adventures and augment them into SPARTAN IV supersoldiers and--

Wait, no, wrong franchise. But I digress: what specifically seems like gene therapy/mutation/what-have-you? Again, I'm a little in the dark and am trying to avoid spoilers.

Partners in Time, dammit! by Seafarer on 2016-08-12 21:36:00 UTC Reply

IVs have always seemed yo me to be genes; heritable limitations on the upper limits of a Pokémon's power (as opposed to EVs, which represent training/practice). Hence, increasing an IV would require modification of the Pokémon's DNA in every cell in its body. This honestly seems rather painful.

Besides, making IVs just another number that you can increase kinda takes away from the uniqueness of Pokémon's system. There's no longer any practical variation between individuals within a species (other than natures, but I bet there'll be a way to change those in short order...)

I see the headlines now. by SeaTurtle on 2016-08-14 19:41:00 UTC Reply

"Designer Pokémon— why bother with low IVs when you can have perfect 31s across the board?"

It's a shift towards the competitive scene, IMO. Dunno how that will pan out in the long run.

>Implying that TTYD didn't have an awesome plot by SeaTurtle on 2016-08-05 04:16:00 UTC Reply

Just kidding.

I was really a fan of the turn-based style of the first two entries in the series— and the timing attack combat mechanics that went with them. Actual combat strategy was a thing and I felt that the game wasn't being overshadowed by too many gimmicks. TTYD refined what made Paper Mario a great game and thus turned it into one of my all-time favourites.

SPM was okay, but I missed the turn-based combat of the previous games.

And we don't speak of Sticker Star. Nope. Not ever.

What'd Sticker Star bugger up, then? by Larfen J. Stocke, esq on 2016-08-05 07:25:00 UTC Reply

I've only really played Super Paper Mario, which I bloody loved.
I've heard that it's messed up here and there, but nothing specific.

A lot of things. by OrangeYoshi99 on 2016-08-05 13:33:00 UTC Reply

It was story-light, had a limited amount of times you could use an attack, and everyone was painfully generic. And bosses could be defeated in about 3 seconds flat if you had the right Thing sticker. It did have some good ideas, and the Enigmansion was good, but the game as a whole was poorly executed and very un-Paper Mario.
Paper Mario was, at its core, an RPG. by SeaTurtle on 2016-08-05 13:27:00 UTC Reply

Mario levelled up, gained companions, explored large worlds filled with NPCs, and the game actually had a concrete plot and chapters had interesting twists: for example, the Glitz Pit and Excess Express chapters in TTYD and the Shy Guy toybox of PM1 stand out in particular. It was fun-- and your companions made the ride even more memorable.

SPM was a platformer/RPG hybrid. Not a terrible game-- I actually like it-- but I wanted a bit more focus on the RPG side of things.

With Sticker Star, we have none of the above. No levelling up, combat is entirely item-based, no companions, no complex plot like the previous instalments, no open world to explore. I was promised an RPG-- instead, I felt cheated.