Hmm. Okay. (nm)

Few questions: two complex, one simple. by twistedwindowpane on 2018-06-01 23:42:00 UTC Reply

Hypothetical questions about interpreting canon:

1. Is there a way for a canon character to be against the existence of the PPC, whether from their opinions or being convinced so by someone other than a Mary Sue? Could some canon villains who get portrayed as heroes a lot like that fact and thus generally like badfic? Could someone whose motivations include creating a perfect being/race be ticked off by the fact that those pesky agents manage to destroy all the Suefics starring a success at that endeavor? Or at least, could someone who doesn't have an Aura of Smooth convince them of this?

2. What does one do if very little or no personality is shown in a canon for given character? How would that affect what's "canon" with regards to their personality, and how should they be portrayed as true to canon as possible/when not OOC in a PPC fic?

And the simple question:

3. Is there any good reference source with regards to hS's PPC video game? For next Badfic Games, I'm planning on writing a glitched copy cruddypasta of it, so I'd like to know how the game actually goes and such. Preferably without having to download it, because parents.

Thanks,

-Twistey

A thought... by Snowy the Sane Fangirl on 2018-06-04 08:18:00 UTC Reply

When you brought up villains being portrayed as heroes, my mind immediately went to Loki. Characters of his type (not villains, per se, but incredibly adaptable trolls) would probably be amused to no end by a lot of badfic. If they were more or less in their right mind they would probably try to take advantage of the situation.

Not that I imagine Loki particularly would have many opportunities to do this, because he tends to be one of the most butchered characters I've seen in MCU fanfic. I think his opinion of his portrayals in fanfic would range from amusement to anger, depending on the particular portrayal.

Loki doesn't think of himself as a villain, and neither do a lot of fanfic writers. Fundamentally we see agreement, but the problem arises when you look at the way the fanwriters tend to defend him, which more often than not is portraying him as weak, or more victimized than he was in canon. I don't think Loki would appreciate that.

And I also think he wouldn't much like any fanfic that had him too far out of character. Fundamentally Loki and most other villains like who they are. Seeing someone twist their personality to the point most badfics go to would probably not make them happy.

Besides, I've seen a fair amount of goodfic that's managed to portray villains as good guys to at least some extent. If it can be done well, there's no need for them to approve of it being done badly.

TL;DR: Using Loki as an example, I think that it's unlikely that badfic interpretations of villains as good guys would please the villains much, since it usually involves some warping of character. Also I've seen that done well, so there's no real use to doing it badly.
Answers by Calista on 2018-06-03 18:52:00 UTC Reply
1. It's possible for a canon character to hold any opinion they might canonically hold. Any canon character who would agree that mind-controlling people against their will in order to make them more like what you want them to be might think of a 'Sue as working toward their own ends. However, such characters almost always don't want their own minds tampered with; so once the 'Sue pulls them out of character, they tend to be pretty annoyed once they come to their senses. Of course, they would need to be aware of the PPC, either temporarily or permanently, in order to have any opinion at all.
  
  Since badfic usually ruins characterization even when it attempts to perfect a species, most mind-controlling canon villains would actually see the 'Sue's efforts as an amateur, horribly executed attempt at doing what they've been trying to do.
  
  2. Imagine covering up a photograph, and poking a hole in the cover. Anyone trying to recreate the photograph from just what they can see through the hole can do whatever they want with the covered-up parts, but their guess needs to be consistent with what's visible.
  
  Depending on how complex a character is, they may be a Generic, a bit, a minor character or a major character. If they're in-character, whatever you can see of them will be consistent with what you saw about them in canon--even if canon doesn't explicitly state those parts.
  
  In the PPC, many agents started out as bit characters or minor characters whose personalities were not completely determined when they joined the PPC. Gaining a personality can be part of these agents' stories. I've never written any missions, but I did create an agent, Jane Doe. She started out with practically no personality except for "Generic Tolkien Dwarf", and over her introduction gained only a love for coffee and a tendency to pay attention to details. Luckily, Jane Doe comes from a strong canon with a well-defined species, so she has a lot to build from.
  
  Bit characters and minor characters gain their three-dimensionality from the canon they come from. If the canon is strong, they're fully-realized people who simply aren't very visible. If the canon is weak--as a badfic storyline is--they can even be completely non-sentient, unable to do anything but stand there unless the fic tells them to do something.
  
  What your agent does with them depends on how much they take from the host canon and how much they take from the fanfic.
  
  Bits and minor characters relatively unaffected by the fanfic can be allowed to assimilate into the canon, optionally after some kind of memory modification, and live as fully-realized people.
  
  Bits and minor characters strongly associated to the fanfic but without any real characterization will generally poof out of existence along with the non-canon furniture when the biggest canon breaks are fixed.
  
  Minor characters strongly associated with the fanfic but with too much characterization to disappear or assimilate on their own have to be removed. Options include assassination, relocation to a more appropriate canon, or recruitment.

Hmm. How could a canon come to know of the PPC? (nm) by twistedwindowpane on 2018-06-04 01:44:00 UTC Reply

It's rare. by Calista on 2018-06-04 02:38:00 UTC Reply

The PPC tries to keep themselves secret. Most of the time, the canons are ignorant. But some canons know.

1. Omnipotent/omniscient deities who can be expected to have knowledge of the full multiverse know without having to find out. Aslan, Illuvatar, and Madoka have been established to know of the PPC. Omnipotent/omniscient deities tend to be hands-off and to care about the free will, but will occasionally step in when they have been maligned directly.

2. Very powerful characters, though not omniscient, are more likely to find out. Death from Discworld is aware of the PPC; so is Father Christmas from Narnia and Ponch from Young Wizards. They tend to be the type not to interfere with agents' work, and to be quite cordial when encountered.

3. Characters who are insane enough to see through SEP fields and perceive the multiverse. Discworld's Altogether Andrews has one or more personalities that know about the PPC. The A-Team's Murdock has managed to retain vague memories between neuralyzations, probably because of his unusually flexible mind, but seems content to stay within his own world. Characters whose mental illness or insanity or strange outlook lets them see the PPC tend to also be pretty accepting of the PPC's presence, since it's no more odd than any other part of their lives, and are unlikely to be believed by other canons in any case.

4. Characters who are very, very good at analysis, to the point that they can detect tiny clues that the agents left behind before the canon snaps back. So far the only character in this category is Sherlock Holmes, who has on a few occasions figured out that something odd is going on. The more in-character he is, the more likely he is to use his detective abilities to suss out the PPC. Luckily, the closer to IC he is, the more likely he is to be fighting the Suefluence and to recognize the PPC as allies. He is usually neuralyzed at the end of a mission, but because of his abilities, is likely to figure it out all over again.

5. Characters who live in a metafictional continuum and can recognize the PPC as multiverse travelers. In this category: The characters in Gorillaz and the Doctor's TARDIS. Characters like Deadpool and the inhabitants of the Thursday Next continuum are likely to figure it out, too, but this hasn't yet been observed.

6. Gaspode and other minor characters who are both very perceptive and very easily overlooked. When they repeatedly see the PPC fix problems in their continuua, and the agents forget to wipe their memories because they're so forgettable, they may become allies. Gaspode from Discworld was the first, and can be expected to help agents. Luckily his awareness doesn't harm his home continuum because he canonically knows a whole lot more than he tells.

7. 1984's Big Brother, who was directly clued in by a rogue PPC agent. Unfortunately, Big Brother could be anything from a figurehead to a concept to an icon of the government of Oceania--he may not be a person at all. Luckily, 1984's technology is stuck at the 1950s Earth level thanks to constant warfare and a repressive government, and he's unlikely to ever make his way out of his own world. That does, unfortunately, mean that any agents doing a mission in 1984 have to stay constantly disguised and in character, making sure to use their technology only when they are not on camera. Whether Big Brother wants to steal PPC technology or actually invade the multiverse is unknown, but the PPC isn't keen to find out. Luckily 1984 badfics are rare.

Hmm, that's interesting. Thanks for the info. (nm) by twistedwindowpane on 2018-06-05 00:07:00 UTC Reply

Go ye and read the wiki! More interestingness awaits. (nm) by Calista on 2018-06-05 17:14:00 UTC Reply

Alrighty then! (nm) by twistedwindowpane on 2018-06-17 22:52:00 UTC Reply

Question 1: 61516planation by 61516 on 2018-06-02 20:02:00 UTC Reply

If a villain was often portrayed as a hero, that would be an example of the Aura of Smooth affecting them, and people generally don't like being mind controlled.

As for the "perfect race" question, I think a non-'suefluenced character could tell something was wrong with the result, as 'sues tend to stand out.

Hmm. Okay. (nm) by twistedwindowpane on 2018-06-02 23:31:00 UTC Reply