You call it silly...

Subject: You call it silly...
Author: Huinesoron
Posted on: 2017-09-12 16:15:00 UTC

... but it actually goes back to the early stages of the Board/Chat divide.

This would have been late '05, early '06, when it was becoming increasingly obvious that something was rotten in the Chat. (This isn't the IRC, but the one before it - the Wiki says Bravenet.) It had started out fun, but it had gradually developed its own, separate culture, with - shall we say - a distinctly higher rating than the Board.

I forget who it was that first coined the Boarder-in-Existence backronym (I wanna say Newmoon?), but I do remember having a conversation with her about it on MSN. It wasn't discussed on-Board, but her goal in coming up with it was to deliberately draw a line between the Board and the collapsing Chat. It meant that 'time in the Chat' didn't, in some sense, count - if you introduced yourself here, wandered off to the Chat for a year, and then tried to post on the Board again, you'd be a returnb(oarder)ie, not an oldbie.

It was subtle, it was clever, and given the Bravenet chat's vanishing in '06 or so, I think we can say it worked.

Any speculation about my own use of -bie terms, and how it ties into the timeline of the IRC's rise and fall, is left as an exercise to the reader.

hS

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Introducing Wasted Moth (formerly Dark Brother 16) by Wasted Moth on 2017-09-10 17:18:00 UTC Reply

Hello, everyone! My name's Wasted Moth, and I am returning to the Board after I-don't-know-how-long. Finally!

Yes, that's returning, because I used to go under the pen name of Dark Brother 16. Here's an explanation (which I probably don't need to provide, but which I will give anyway, because I feel like it).

Back when I was Dark Brother 16, I hung around the Board a while, and every now and then, I tried to get Permission, but could never really manage it. I then took a break to focus on going to college. I am currently in my Senior Year, but I will now occasionally be able to post here.

As for my previous attempts at getting Permission, I've learned a few things from them, most notably what NOT to do. For the time being, I'll continue learning what NOT to do by reading random badfics, as well as expanding my literary horizons. And in the meantime, I'll only seek permission when I have good ideas.

As an aside, a little "survey" is in order. For those who have read them, what are your favorite books written by Stephen King? I've been looking to expand my reading into horror.

Hail to the King by Grundleplith The Dorf on 2017-09-18 19:59:00 UTC Reply

Dark Tower is and always will be my favorite Stephen King work/works. More of an epic than horror though.
It (the book by that name, not the aforementioned series) is also good. New movie just came out.
The Shining is a classic and it more recently got a sequel in the form of Doctor Sleep.
Insomnia was a very good read and is, IMO, underrated, and ties into Dark Tower--similarly to The Stand, another good one, but better-known.
'Salem's Lot ties into Dark Tower as well but is more horror than that. I'm currently reading Needful Things and loving it so far.
King's short fiction is good too--The Langoliers is nightmarish, and I really enjoyed The Library Policeman.
By the way, you can enjoy any of the DT tie-ins I've mentioned above without reading DT. It's more easter eggs and in one case DT ties up a loose end in one of those.
Hey, welcome back! by Diana Cribbet on 2017-09-13 13:11:00 UTC Reply

Here is a waterproof paperboat, just for you. I'm glad you returned!
Hello returnbie. by Hardric on 2017-09-11 20:48:00 UTC Reply

Please have some black-hole chocolates.
Hello returnbie by CodeCom on 2017-09-11 13:26:00 UTC Reply

Have a pile of multi-coloured pens.
Welcome home! by doctorlit on 2017-09-11 12:30:00 UTC Reply

My absolute favorite King novel (of the ones I've read so far) is From a Buick 8. It's a bit more sci fi/cosmic horror rather than Gothic horror, but the horror elements aren't really the focus of the story anyway. It's a very character-driven, dialogue-heavy story about a group of good people who suddenly find themselves interecting with, and trying to keep control over, an inexplicable object that doesn't seem to follow the laws of space or logic, and shows how they come together to cope with it.

Also, while King's novels are all very well known names, I have to recommend trying some of his short story collections. I actually think he's much better at writing short stories than novels, as he has a major talent for setting up scenes and characters in very few paragraphs and leading all the action up to a big punch in the end.

—doctorlit, a Kingly fanboy
Welcome Back! by OpinionedAngel on 2017-09-11 03:05:00 UTC Reply

I haven't read any Steven King novels, though I'm curious to know if the Dark Tower books are any good.

Anyway, have some chocolate and enjoy your stay!
Welcome back! by Maxewell on 2017-09-11 01:05:00 UTC Reply

My personal favorite novel was Under The Dome. I really liked it.
Cheers, mate! by Matt Cipher on 2017-09-10 21:28:00 UTC Reply

For the book question, it's without a doubt "Needful Things". What can I say, I'm a sucker for a good 'Deal with the Devil' story.
Welcome back! by eatpraylove on 2017-09-10 20:14:00 UTC Reply

I've never read Stephen King, so I can't help you there, sorry.
Eyyyyyyy returnbie! by twistedwindowpane on 2017-09-10 18:24:00 UTC Reply

Cool that you're coming back stronger and whatnot! I'm Twistey, a lightly-used-bie with really weird interests (need I say more?) and it's great to meet you. Do you have any ideas or tips for fanfic, considering I myself might want to try for Permission soon?

As for the Stephen King question, I've only read The Eyes of the Dragon and his memoir/writing advice book, since I'm too chicken to read any of his other stuff. Obviously, those two would be my favorites as a result. ;P

As a returnbie gift for you, here, have several large chunks of blueish metal. No, that's not paint, they came that way. Whether or not they can get oxidized and if so, what color that is have yet to be found out. Do whatever you wish with them! Nice to meet you!

-Twistey

Actually, I've been meaning to ask... by Thoth on 2017-09-11 00:09:00 UTC Reply

What the heck is a bie?

Boarder-In-Existence. by Iximaz on 2017-09-11 01:20:00 UTC Reply

With various prefixes added on to distinguish between new, middle, old, and return Boarders.

Hope this helps! :P

Well, what might've happened by Tomash on 2017-09-11 15:55:00 UTC Reply

is that, long long ago, we reanalyzed the "bie" in "newbie" as a suffix on "new", and then started applying it to other stuff that made sense, getting us "oldbie", "returnbie", and so on.

And now Ix has shown up with neat-sounding etymologies that might not be super true (that is to say, first I've heard of this).

[Adjusts spectacles] Well, actually... by Huinesoron on 2017-09-12 09:19:00 UTC Reply

'Bie' coming from 'Border-in-Existence' is a backronym; the actual history is much more interesting. Pronounced Bee-yeah (yup, you've been saying it wrong all this time, just like 'meme'), it comes from the Albanian word for a decline or collapse. (I think it came into English by way of a tiny failed Soviet era revolt - instead of things like the Prague Spring, Albania had the Bie Revolt, which lasted about two days. But don't quote me on that, we might have had it earlier.)

Its usage on the internet was, as you say, first in 'newbie'; it literally means 'everything is rubbish because of the new people'. The idea is that the presence of the new causes the decline which was the original meaning of the word - thus, 'oh no, more newbies!' (remember that one? Ah, the heady days of flash animation...).

The extension of its use in the PPC to 'oldbie' and 'returnbie' is partly self-effacing joke - 'we all make things rubbish, not just the new people' - and partly an attempted reclamation of the term. Just like we're trying to make the world of fanfic a better place, we will make being a -bie - old, new, or return - something to be proud of, not ashamed.

hS, oldbee-yah

I can verify... by Thoth on 2017-09-12 14:14:00 UTC Reply

[Put on Internet Historian hat]

Well, I can't verify that first part, but the negative connotations surrounding newbies trace their roots all they way to the origin of the Internet itself, with Newbies blamed for just about anything. Any large enough community will develop its own newbie mythology.

On Usenet, this manifested itself in manners such as the "September" meme (although they were not called that at the time), seguing into the idea of the "eternal september", and a burning hatred of AOL, among other things. On 4chan, it's Summer and the summer[CENSORED], as well as other new[CENSORED], and constant demands on blatantly new users to "lurk moar". In many gaming communities, it appears as general attacks on "noobs", and a general expectation that they will complain about "hacking".

But in every community large enough, you should expect disdain for anyone foolish enough to reveal, either explicitly or through their mannerisms, that they are new.

Y'all are having too much fun with my silly answer. :P (nm) by Iximaz on 2017-09-12 15:44:00 UTC Reply

... I was actually being serious (nm) by Tomash on 2017-09-12 19:24:00 UTC Reply

Are you implying I wasn't? >:( (nm) by Huinesoron on 2017-09-12 19:53:00 UTC Reply

Just a bit (nm) by Tomash on 2017-09-12 21:06:00 UTC Reply

Good, just checking. OKAY, so for the record... by Huinesoron on 2017-09-12 21:41:00 UTC Reply

... here are the things I said in these three posts which are actually true:

-'Bie' is a real Albanian word with the approximate meaning I gave, pronounced the way I said.
-Albania was Soviet during the Cold War.
-Flash animations were fun.
-There was a PPC Bravenet chat, which petered out somewhere around 2006.
-It was, I'm told, a fairly risque place.
-Newmoon was a PPCer (and I may even have talked to her via MSN Instant Messenger!).
-So were all the people I named in the third post!
-I don't remember Doc Filth and Dor from the Board.
-Araeph and I did indeed start the PPC Manual, and July started the Wiki.

So, really, there's a lot of truth in there! ... which was the point. A flagrant and ridiculous lie is far more believable when you construct it on true (or at least truthful-sounding) foundations.

-bie doesn't mean anything. And there is no conspiracy.

hS

But that's what you would say if there WAS a conspiracy! (nm) by Thoth on 2017-09-12 22:23:00 UTC Reply

Out of sheer curiousity... by Huinesoron on 2017-09-13 09:32:00 UTC Reply

... I went through the archives to see if there were any patterns in the use of -bie words. Here's what I found:

['2008' runs from 18th June; '2017' ends on 19th July; '(Posts)' has been divided by 500,000, with actual values running from 6093 (2017) to 22873 (2015).]

I think those spikes this year all come from one particular thread, so they can probably be ignored. What can't be ignored is the rise in the use of 'Returnbie'. It's been wandering steadily upwards since first appearing in '13, and I have no idea why. I guess that's when someone coined it, and it's just been picked up by more and more people ever since?

('Middlebie' also includes 'Midbie', by the way; the two terms enjoy roughly similar currency, except for in this year.)

For the record, the highest actual count of 'Newbie' uses is 578, in 2013; it only showed up 130 times in the whole of 2009, by comparison. 'Oldbie' is much lower, ranging from 16 (2009) to 76 (2012).

Anyway... graphs!

hS

This is just too funny! by twistedwindowpane on 2017-09-14 01:15:00 UTC Reply

Everybody suddenly started replying to my "nice to meet you" because of somebody's question. That's great!

-Twistey

P.S. I need to make a doodle of this.

I made hS in Walfas. by twistedwindowpane on 2017-09-14 01:46:00 UTC Reply

http://www.makemegoogly.com/HDH15

(Yeah, the googly eyes thing is one of the few sites I know where you can post stuff to the Internet but you don't need an account. Enjoy the slight extra derpiness it lends to the picture.)

-Twistey

I'm pretty sure... by Huinesoron on 2017-09-14 08:58:00 UTC Reply

... "Anyway, Graphs!" is the title of the second volume of my autobiography. ;)

(The first volume is, naturally, called "Growing Up Elvish", and every chapter is named after a Middle-earth song. In "Anyway, Graphs!", they're probably called... I'unno, obscure mathematical things.)

hS

(I will never grow tired of google-eyed fanart.)

Oh boy, that's going to be great! by twistedwindowpane on 2017-09-15 01:00:00 UTC Reply

Can't wait for you to publish it. I would buy copies.

-Twistey

(Well, I'm glad, because there's going to be a lot of it.)

(Dunno if I should post this in a new post, but...) by twistedwindowpane on 2017-09-23 20:35:00 UTC Reply

(I did a little memeing with PPC Boarders. In Walfas. With googly eyes.)

http://www.makemegoogly.com/YY5UL

(A thing with hS)

http://www.makemegoogly.com/FR32B

(A thing with Nesh)

http://www.makemegoogly.com/E3JFN

(A thing with me)

-Twistey

You call it silly... by Huinesoron on 2017-09-12 16:15:00 UTC Reply

... but it actually goes back to the early stages of the Board/Chat divide.

This would have been late '05, early '06, when it was becoming increasingly obvious that something was rotten in the Chat. (This isn't the IRC, but the one before it - the Wiki says Bravenet.) It had started out fun, but it had gradually developed its own, separate culture, with - shall we say - a distinctly higher rating than the Board.

I forget who it was that first coined the Boarder-in-Existence backronym (I wanna say Newmoon?), but I do remember having a conversation with her about it on MSN. It wasn't discussed on-Board, but her goal in coming up with it was to deliberately draw a line between the Board and the collapsing Chat. It meant that 'time in the Chat' didn't, in some sense, count - if you introduced yourself here, wandered off to the Chat for a year, and then tried to post on the Board again, you'd be a returnb(oarder)ie, not an oldbie.

It was subtle, it was clever, and given the Bravenet chat's vanishing in '06 or so, I think we can say it worked.

Any speculation about my own use of -bie terms, and how it ties into the timeline of the IRC's rise and fall, is left as an exercise to the reader.

hS

Oh, jeez. by Iximaz on 2017-09-12 17:39:00 UTC Reply

I'm sorry for bringing up bad memories.

Nah, not bad memories. by Huinesoron on 2017-09-12 18:47:00 UTC Reply

This was the old days, when we were mostly fine with the Board and Chat being virtually separate manifestations of the idea of 'PPC community', rather than two parts of the same community. Some people I met on Gatherings - Doc Filth in '04, Dor in Philly - I'd never even seen on the Board, and that was fine. It's only the people who were in both communities that really saw it as a problem.

The shift, by the way, can be seen through the growth of other community spaces, and how they were presented. Check out the profile for the LJ comm - it's very clear that it's ancillary to the Board. FlamingoFeathers' backup Board, Araeph's and my Manual, July's Wiki - they were all tied to the /Board/, not the general concept of PPCishness.

It kind of ties into the rise in power of the Permission Givers, too. Why do you think we started electing them on the Board? Right - so that they'd be a feature of the Board, not someone you could just hit up in the Chat.

I wouldn't call it a conspiracy - that would imply active collusion - but Bodldops, FF, Newmoon, Araeph, the PGs pre-me... make no mistake, they all had the same goal in mind.

hS

fascinating by Thoth on 2017-09-12 17:38:00 UTC Reply

I mean, to this day, the Board and the Chat have different cultures. They're similar, but they remain noticeably different.

...Also, your post seems to imply that there was more to the story of IRC's death than merely the stated fall into disuse. Which is also interesting.

Ah... (nm) by Thoth on 2017-09-11 01:36:00 UTC Reply

Fanfic Advice: a Response by Wasted Moth on 2017-09-10 18:36:00 UTC Reply

My general advice would be to try and keep the dialog for your characters as realistic/natural as possible without making it too weird or obvious. Other than that, research always helps. Research of the canon, obviously, is a must, but also, it helps to research the conventions of the fandom you're writing for. This can help you come up with material that hasn't been used before (or is rarely seen), and it can help you toy with the usual fanfic tropes, which is fun.

Hey, good to see you again! by Iximaz on 2017-09-10 17:27:00 UTC Reply

Have a plate of welcome-back SPaGhetti!

I've only read Cujo and Carrie, so I don't think I'm of much use to you there, sorry to say. The TV Tropes page of Pet Semetary was enough to give me nightmares, though, so maybe try that one if you haven't already?
Welcome Back! by Thoth on 2017-09-10 17:22:00 UTC Reply

I haven't read any King.

Anyways, welcome! Take this Bolter and a bottle of Fenrisian Ale.