Subject: Hmm...
Author:
Posted on: 2018-10-03 00:30:00 UTC
I dunno about you, but I'm already shipping Eowyn and Arwen. Sorry, Aragorn!
Also, your depiction of Angelica is absolutely precious and I want to protect her.
Subject: Hmm...
Author:
Posted on: 2018-10-03 00:30:00 UTC
I dunno about you, but I'm already shipping Eowyn and Arwen. Sorry, Aragorn!
Also, your depiction of Angelica is absolutely precious and I want to protect her.
It is well known that one of the most popular activities for girls in Middle-earth is joining the Fellowship of the Ring and saving the day; I mean, given a choice between that and dying of dysentery, wouldn't you?
Most female Walkers are Suvians, of course, but a while back Kaitlyn and Selene took on a fic where Rosie, Diamond, and Estella tried to join the Ringbearer's party. That got me thinking: is there a way to get a woman into the Fellowship that works?
In fact (thought I), let's go for broke: is there a way to get nine women into the Fellowship?
The answer, it turned out, was (at least in the Movieverse) yes:
(deviantArt: The Inopportune Storm: The Fellowship of the Ring)
The full account of how this came about is up on deviantArt, but a quick summary goes like this:
My Middle-earth knowledge isn't as good as it could be, and my movieverse knowledge is virtually non-existent, but I'll try anyway.
I have a feeling that they might take the Gap of Rohan to pass the mountains - after all, that is (presumably) where Eowyn's going and she could reassure the others that the Rohirrim aren't working for Sauron or Saruman.
That could lead to a different route to Amon Hen, and beyond that it depends on whether the individual members want to go to Minas Tirith or press on to Mordor... that's assuming they even get that far!
Galadriel is there to say "No, that's a terrible idea. No really, we have long suspected that some evil of the ancient world sleeps there, and it's right next door to my house. Let's not wake it up, please."
I don't know about Éowyn being able to assure them the Gap is safe, though. I'm not sure how things stand in Rohan at the time she would have left in this version, but my sense is that it was bad and getting worse for some time before the Three Hunters turned up there in canon. And even if things were okay when she left, and she fully believed they would have nothing but support, she would be wrong by the time they got there. And they would still have to deal with Saruman, either way.
And, if we go this way, do the Ents still get involved to help defeat Saruman? How?
~Neshomeh
It's worth noting that Galadriel and Treebeard have met before, though not for a long time. From RotK:
Then Treebeard said farewell to each of them in turn, and he bowed three times slowly and with great reverence to Celeborn and Galadriel. ‘It is long, long since we met by stock or by stone, A vanimar, vanimálion nostari!’ he said. ‘It is sad that we should meet only thus at the ending. For the world is changing: I feel it in the water, I feel it in the earth, and I smell it in the air. I do not think we shall meet again.’
And Celeborn said: ‘I do not know, Eldest.’ But Galadriel said: ‘Not in Middle-earth, nor until the lands that lie under the wave are lifted up again. Then in the willow-meads of Tasarinan we may meet in the Spring. Farewell!’
Significantly, Galadriel's line here quotes Treebeard's song back in TTT, which means she's had contact with him since the First Age. Add in the fact that the forest is literally named after him, and she definitely knows he lives there.
So, knowing that Saruman has turned, would Galadriel consider taking Isengard out of the picture? With Eowyn at her side, she could definitely pull together a three-pronged attack (Rohan, Lorien, Fangorn) - and with Goldberry (and movie!Arwen) there, she might be able to count on the River Isen itself helping out.
Of course, doing that would require some assurance that Sauron wouldn't move against Lorien while the army was out - Dol Guldur is close enough to do that. And this is where EAIUO's point comes in: what about the guys?
Well, how about we send out a second Fellowship, with a different goal: to contact Mirkwood and Erebor (and the Beornings, for that matter) and get them to attack Dol Guldur. That's something Gandalf could do - he's got Gimli and Legolas to hand, remember - and it's an excellent way of drawing Sauron's eye away from the Ringbearer's party.
We know from canon that both of these attacks could work: that Erebor+Mirkwood were able to at least hold off the armies of Dol Guldur, and that Rohan+the Ents were able to defeat Isengard. So this could be an opportunity to weaken Sauron, distract him, and keep his attention away from the Ring (now hurrying through Rohan).
Slight problem, though: when Sauron gets stirred up, he's going to start moving armies out of Morgul and Mordor. That could mean Gondor gets hit, unsupported in this timeline. It could also mean that the full strength of Mordor moves north, waging a war of annihilation on the Lonely Mountain and the Woodland Realm. At minimum, it means the Mountains of Shadow are going to be crawling with Orcs, leaving the Fellowship without an obvious way in.
Hmm... one possibility is, rather than crossing Rohan, the Fellowship could keep going south. The bulk of Gondor isn't under much threat (at least while Minas Tirith stands), and if they cross Anduin and head up the Poros, it looks like the mountains might be low enough to let them cross into Nurn. That would let them sneak into Mordor 'the back way', while Sauron's armies were all heading out the front.
Of course, this is now becoming a longer and longer journey. I estimate it as at least 1500 miles. The canon trip from Rivendell is around 1000 miles, and took 3 months; this would take nearly 5. They might succeed, but I'm not at all sure there would be a Middle-earth left to save.
hS
EAIUO said something about the Three Rings being in the party, and that got me thinking, even if it's just Galadriel with Nenya, would Sauron notice if it leaves Lothlórien? The Elven-rings are hidden from him, but Nenya's power is part of what makes Lórien the refuge it is, right? If the ring isn't there, suddenly it's more exposed, more vulnerable.
Gandalf potentially giving Narya to Éowyn is an interesting idea, because its power to inspire and put heart in people is very useful when you need people to keep fighting against overwhelmingly bad odds. On the other hand, if it stays with the Other Fellowship and joins the fight of Mirkwood and Erebor against Dol Guldur, does it help them win that fight more decisively? Could those factions then proceed south to come to Rohan's and Gondor's aid?
Meanwhile, what does Nenya's influence mean for the main Fellowship? Does it let them move with greater secrecy, perhaps? Can they slip through the Gap of Rohan unnoticed by Saruman and reach Meduseld in good time to bring Théoden around and get the Rohirrim into the fight? Or, if not Théoden, since Gandalf (with Narya) isn't there to stir his heart, perhaps they just get Éomer on board and stage a bit of a rebellion?
~Neshomeh has more questions than answers.
Obligatory sheet-anchor: this all goes back to the powers of the Three, about which we have few firm statements. So I'm going to have to speculate quite a bit here. We do know that all three could ward off the decays of time and postpone the weariness of the world ('Of the Rings of Power').
Nenya is the Ring of Adamant, and is also connected to water (hence its name). We know, or think, that it directly protected Lothlorien, as well as altering the flow of time there.
We know that Sauron and Galadriel directly contended (Galadriel mentions it at the Mirror), but I don't know that he can have the same sort of interaction with Lorien as a whole. Certainly if Dol Guldur came out to attack the Golden Wood, they'd notice a difference, but I don't think it's necessarily true to say Sauron could perceive it from a distance.
Narya is the Ring of Fire, and Cirdan helpfully tells us (well, Gandalf) exactly what it does:
...but in all it will support thee and defend thee from weariness. For this is the Ring of Fire, and herewith, maybe, thou shalt rekindle hearts to the valour of old in a world that grows chill. ('Of the Rings of Power')
So you're exactly right that Narya could help in the battles of the North. Would that help save Gondor? I feel like the time-lag might mean they only get there to interrupt the Orcs' victory feast - though if the Lord of the Nazgul was elsewhere, Minas Tirith could probably stand a long siege, so that's a possible.
Whether Gandalf would surrender Nenya to Eowyn is an interesting question, but on balance I think not. Galadriel said:
Did not Gandalf tell you that the rings give power according to the measure of each possessor? Before you could use that power you would need to become far stronger, and to train your will to the domination of others. (FotR)
While Gandalf might like to send Narya with the Fellowship, none of the members of the party would be able to wield it effectively. (The same, sadly, goes for giving Vilya to Arwen.)
But Nenya is definitely there, and Galadriel does imply that its powers include hiding. It's also thematically appropriate for water to be a concealment - this goes back to Tuor, who was given a cloak of invisibility by Ulmo. So yes, they probably could get through the Gap unseen.
Without Gandalf, I think you're right that Theoden would be too 'help help, I'm old and feeble' to do much good - but without a month's stay in Lorien, the Fellowship would reach Rohan long before the Battle of the Fords of Isen. Saruman wouldn't yet have openly declared his army of Uruks - and Theodred, Theoden's son, would still be alive.
It is noteworthy that at this time, there was no First Marshal of the Mark - the position of 'supreme commander' of Rohan lay fallow (because of Theoden's weakness and Grima's influence). But the Second and Third Marshals, Theodred and Eomer, showed that they were definitely willing to take the fight to Isengard.
The image I'm getting here is of a War of the Ring made up not of brief, heroic battles, but of a string of sieges. The North lays siege to Dol Guldur. Rohan lays siege to Isengard. Sauron, alerted by Saruman, sends out his own armies and besieges Minas Tirith. And all of this takes place in January (yikes!). The armies of southern Gondor have not yet been mustered - but nor have Sauron's Southrons and Easterlings (and Corsairs) arrived. They'll be trickling in over the next couple of months, and who arrives where and when is likely to be critical.
One thing I'm even surer of now is that the Fellowship has to go through South Gondor. Ithilien is going to fall quickly, and everything east of Anduin and north of Minas Tirith is going to be stuffed with Orcs. The only hope of maintaining secrecy is to get down to what Sauron thinks of as the back-lines, and hope to avoid all the troops coming up from the south.
(Which may not be as hard as I'd supposed; I forgot the month in Lorien when I worked out the timings before. I think, if all goes well, they'll still hit Mordor sometime in March.)
hS
I think Gandalf would still insist on accompanying the fellowship as Sauron was his Enemy. But another thing that might have changed is, there may have been two of Elven Rings of Power in this new fellowship.
Galadriel has Nenya
But it is possible that both Vilya and Narya may have changed hands. If Gandalf could not accompany the fellowship, given that Cirdan gave Narya to Gandalf because he knew who he was and what his goal was and that it was given to him to help defeat Sauron, he may have passed it to another possible wielder, possibly Goldberry.
It might also not be to far to believe that Elrond may have transferred Vilya to Arwen, though perhaps not. Having all three Elven Rings in one party might be a risky idea.
I do think that if they still had to go through Moria, I think that the encounter with Durin's Bane would be different. Galadriel could solo it like Gandalf, but given the way Goldberry/Tom Bombadil are portrayed they appear to be somewhat close to the Maia, so Goldberry would probably be able to help. Also the Elves are strong enough that alone Arwen (without Vilya) would probably not be able to, but with Tauriel the two Elves may be able to assist. Alternatively if Arwen was granted either Vilya or Narya she might be able to help as well. But short version Durin's Bane would be facing between 2 and 4 opponents, quite possibly keeping all 9 members together for Amon Hen.
I do not think Angelica would be able to resist the influence like Frodo did, because we know it is incredibly corrupting and we do not know enough about her to make a decision. However, with both Goldberry and Galadrial present I think it would be able to be resisted.
I dunno about you, but I'm already shipping Eowyn and Arwen. Sorry, Aragorn!
Also, your depiction of Angelica is absolutely precious and I want to protect her.