Subject: Arrival is the closest I can think of off-hand. (nm)
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Posted on: 2019-05-11 11:21:00 UTC
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Genuinely alien. by
on 2019-05-10 13:03:00 UTC
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We, the fans of space-year 2019, are spoiled.
Back in the proverbial Day, you could wow your audiences with very minor deviations from the real world. "Begads!" your Victorian reader might say. "A Machine which can travel through Time? What manner of mind could conceive such a thing?!"
Nowadays? A movie like, let's say Guardians of the Galaxy, has shapeshifting spaceships, weird hexagonal jump-gate travel, a talking tree, and a glowy rock that lets four people blow up a dude with a hammer. Do we go "inconceivable!"? No - we go 'oh, cool, they reskinned a wormhole and got a shiny macguffin of power'. Spoiled.
What would it take to give today's SFX-hardened audiences a truly alien experience - something that's so outside our frame of reference that we can't fully comprehend it (and not just because it's badly-written, I'm looking at you, every time travel plot ever)? Ideas on a postcard, please.
For myself, I'm thinking of a proper 4-dimensional entity - one which doesn't simply move freely through time, but exists through time. Much like how a 2D plane scanning across, say, me, would see some pretty weird cross-sections, your human viewpoint character would see an ever-changing temporal cross-section of the entity.
To make a story out of this: present the film from both viewpoints, alienating them from each other to such an extent that the viewer doesn't easily clock that they're actually observing the same events. To the entity, a human walking down a corridor would be a continuous blur, like a long-exposure photograph, but in sound as well as vision; it's only when it focusses in temporally that it can see any real features.
What would it feel like for a nanosecond of your life to be subjected to a temporal microscope? How could such an entity possibly come to understand that some of the air movement around our human is significant communication, when it can barely understand the idea that the air is moving at all?
To make the surprise really work: make the entity human, or at least human-shaped. Actual Human lives through almost a psychological horror film, haunted by something incomprehensible; meanwhile, Entity Human is a scientist studying the strange phenomenon of a temporally-constrained being. For bonus points, 'human walking forward while time passes' would look the same from a non-temporal perspective as 'entity walking forward without moving through time' from ours - so they're both seeing similar effects, to add to the viewer's confusion.
I'm definitely envisaging this as something you'd need to watch at least twice, to figure out what (and which) you were seeing at any given time. Hopefully more than that.
Any thoughts/actual examples of this (I doubt it's been done on film, but as a book maybe)? And, as said, any other 'properly alien' ideas bouncing around your heads that you want to share?
hS -
Greg Bear made a good go of it. by
on 2019-05-11 15:32:00 UTC
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In his book Anvil of Stars, the human characters meet up with a species they call the Brothers. Each one is sort of like a large centipede (terribly creepy at first!), but their bodies are composed of a number of smaller sub-organisms, sentient but non-sapient on their own, that combine to form the "individual," so to speak. They struggle a bit with concepts like singular pronouns, and always refer to themselves as "I/we". A big part of their communication is olfactory, and the odors they give off don't always have the kinds of associations we humans might expect, which is fun. They're ultimately very relatable, though, once you get over the "eek!" factor. I really love these guys, and I'm not doing them justice here.
As a side-note, the humans in that book are a little alien themselves, since they've all grown up on an alien spacecraft that has honed them for a single purpose, which is to hunt down and destroy the race of Killers that wiped out the Earth and a bunch of other planets besides. (The Brothers are on the same mission.) It's a little bit Ender's Game, but Bear acknowledges that space is really, really big, and they're essentially tracking the Killers back through eons, and they might not ever find where they came from; or if they do, they might be long dead already.
Anyway, the culture the kids form among themselves is unique and pretty interesting, drawn on half-remembered childhood stories and images of Earth. Their leader is the Pan, and they call themselves Lost Boys and Wendys. They organize themselves into families such as Trees and Birds, with each kid having their own byname that fits their family along with their given name. Martin Spruce is our protagonist; Rose Sequoia is another I recall. Expression of sexuality (they're physically adults at the time of the story) is much less rigid.
TL;DR, Anvil of Stars is cool, go read it.
~Neshomeh -
Arrival is the closest I can think of off-hand. (nm) by
on 2019-05-11 11:21:00 UTC
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I thought of this, too. Good movie! (nm) by
on 2019-05-11 15:05:00 UTC
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Very alien aliens seem to be more of a book thing by
on 2019-05-11 05:37:00 UTC
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I speculate it's easier to put together something properly weird and unusual when you don't need to actually show and play it to people. You can just try and use words to push folks imaginations into roughly similar spaces.
One example that might sort of work on film are the Tines from Vernor Vinge's A Fire Upon the Deep, who're dog-like beings where the sapient people are made of four or five individual beings who synchronize together with ultrasonic waves and who aren't individually sapient. This leads to interesting (and plot-relevant) abilities like the ability for a Tine to swap out parts of themself.
And then you have a book like Embassytown, which features the Hosts, who're aliens that, for reasons that were either not specified or that I can't remember, have a language where you're always saying two words at once. Some aspect of how this setup interacts with their brains stops them from lying or using things like metaphors. Interspecies relations rely on genetically engineered twins who can more or less speak this language, since regular human languages don't cross the species barrier. (And then things get weird and plot happens.)
Anyway, these're some examples I could think of right now. Might come back with more later. -
This reminds me of something I've read... by
on 2019-05-10 17:51:00 UTC
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More specifically, a book series called 'The Lost Fleet: Beyond the Frontier' (which is itself a sequel to a series called 'The Lost Fleet') by Jack Campbell. In it, first of all, all space battles are 4D, so not only do you have to figure out where the fleets are in space relative to each other, and the system they're fighting in, but also *when* which makes those battles both truly complicated and truly awesome and even now when I read through some of the more complex battles for the umpteenth time I have to put the book down and try to imagine the battle in my mind before continuing on. Could you pull that kind of experience through to the big screen? I don't know. But in book form it is pure awesome for any sci-fi fan.
Secondly the aliens in 'The Lost Fleet: Beyond the Frontier', if after reading my first point you think you might want to try the series' then I warn you, spoilers ahead. None of the three alien species that we encounter in the TFL:BTF series can be described as thinking like humans. One of the main characters introduces a riddle when they are first talking about one of the alien species they encounter that exemplifies how alien the aliens are to humans. The riddle is this. "Feathers or Lead." (to give context, the story told is that you have to pick one of the two, however it is a devil giving you the choice and the devil is constantly changing his mind as to which answer is the right one). The point made is that, without being the thing giving you the choice you have no way of thinking like the thing that is giving you the choice. And that even if you can approximate it using human ideas and emotions it is still unlikely that you will ever be able to fully understand the thing and the things context behind the things choice.
...I don't know how well I've explained that.
Novastorme. -
It's the psychology that does it by
on 2019-05-10 16:29:00 UTC
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Which is to say that, physiologically, you don't have to make the alien that different for it to feel alien. But if they have alien psychology... that's alien. Even if they look human. Especially because so often we end up with humans in rubber suits. Even if they're renderered in a more impressive way, that's all they really are, because they're still psychologically human. See: most fantasy races, most sci-fi races, etc.
The race I've seen that feels most alien to me, to this day, is probably the Soft Ones in Asimov's The Gods Themselves. For one thing, this is a race with three sexes. And Homestuck fans, put your hands down, Trolls are monosex, and have four relationship roles. The Soft Ones actually have three biological sexes. Not only that, but they're soft... or rather, immaterial. They can pass through things. Reproduction occurs by passing inside of each other.
And of course the society is also alien. Not as alien as it could be (partly because this was the 70s and partly because writing truly alien aliens wasn't the point of the story). And then there's The Big Twist, which really turns everything we know about the Soft Ones inside out. But I don't want to spoil it.
Honestly, they're still not that alien. Big parts of the human psyche remain. But I think that just shows how close to human models we stick: that I can see something still kinda human as waay more alien then most things. -
So how do you show that? by
on 2019-05-10 16:48:00 UTC
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I guess the easiest(?) way is to write (this one's more writing than visual) from the alien's viewpoint, but that requires rendering it down into a human-readable thought process. The other way is to have a human as your viewpoint, watching the alien act - but then you're likely to just end up with the alien as a random number generator. "Why yes, I respond to attack by reading a book, because that is the way of my people."
I guess, drawing on Larfen's comments, you could approach it as 'they respond predictably, but to different stimuli'. So where your human sees the odds in a battle as depending on things like weapons and tactics, the alien looks instead at... but what, though? Everything I can think of is either something a human should also consider, or something that just plain wouldn't be useful (yes, Mr Space Elf, it's very nice that you've calculated the horoscopes of the battle, but astrology is nonsense).
I think I'm winding up on 'different goals'. Humans' goals are, broadly, to survive and breed; a battle will play out very differently if both parties see (say) not disturbing the local radiation environment as more important than actually surviving. But... survive/breed is an evolutionary response to a hostile environment. You have to come up with some way to force a different response, because so far, most of life on Earth has followed that same path.
hS -
That's assuming survive/breed is a universal thing! by
on 2019-05-11 05:02:00 UTC
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This might get really pretentious, pardon me. I've got no real scientific knowledge of any of this, I'm working mostly on a writer's sense of 'this seems kinda cool and also somewhat logical enough to convince a reading audience.' Soft science fiction, let's say.
Right. So, something with a totally different perception of time and space might not even consider mortality in the same way we do, right? It's a given, in a linear timeframe that sort of, marches forwards ahead that pretty much every system we see has the basis of taking energy --> using energy for movement --> running out of energy. You use energy in order to travel onwards until you run out of energy and die.
Assuming this sort of energy consumption is only a construct of a very specific and linear perception of time--our own perception of it, which we can't really do anything to diverge from (again, no science at all, here,)--maybe other 'sapients' with different presences in spacetime would respond totally differently.
The Tralfamadorians do play with this a little bit: they seem to be just as mortal as anyone else is and take their own impending deaths (and the fact that they destroy the whole universe accidentally) for granted. However, they don't really care, because they can just freely hop from their own death to their own birth however they please. I suppose from our own perspective, they might just look as mortal as we do, but with a really, really strange attitude towards it. A Tralfamadorian in a fight wouldn't even be all too concerned about dying--if they do, they can just hop back and enjoy that nice spa they were in a few days ago.
It's also just as likely that this sort of being wouldn't really be able to interact with us at all and just be like a sort of plant or a rock or a very smelly, electric wind. This is more realistic but it's a bit boring isn't it?
It's inherent, I suppose, for these aliens to have some degree of humanness, so that we can at least interact with them, have some kind of logical plot with them that isn't just an astronaut observing some interesting phenomena. It's more about what bits of humanness you want to remove and where.
Anyway, it's an interesting thing to consider: assuming there were sapient things out there that, for whatever reasons, didn't really respond to that survive/breed impulse, and they were close enough in intelligence to us so as to not be like a plant or something, how would that kinda, manifest? What other instincts would they have?
This is assuming a whole lot of things, I suppose. Like I said, awfully soft science. I'm looking at it more, I suppose, from a philosophical viewpoint? Could be fun, anyhow. -
Alternatively... by
on 2019-05-11 17:07:00 UTC
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We have aliens who approach the same goals we do but from a radically different perspective. The Gods Themselves is the example I already gave of this, but I think I have an even better one.
Lizardmen.
Yes, they're everywhere and have been done too many different ways to count, but I'm specifically talking about D&D Lizardfolk right now. Lizardfolk generally get hit with the Proud Warrior Race stick, and D&D kind of does that, but it also actually borrows from science in that they are, literally and metaphorically, cold-blooded. That is to say, they don't feel emotions the same way we do, and don't have to same level of emotional response to things, certainly not in the same way. Rather than going in the Spock direction however, they rely more on instinct than a human would: it's just that those instincts are colder and stranger to us than our own. This is hard to write or act out, but in the hands of a skilled roleplayer, the result can feel disconcertingly alien (SilentThunder has actually been doing an excellent job of roleplaying one in the Discord's D&D campaign, and I can recall at least on particularly disturbing flourish at one point that highlighted how inhuman the character was).
In general, taking inspiration from nature is probably a good idea, because life is weirder than anything I can imagine. There are multiple species that practice cannibalism as part of their lifecycles (see: praying mantis): what kind of perspective would they have on life and death? The Anglerfish is another, equally bizarre thing. And yes, I know I'm focusing on reproduction, but that's because it's the easiest part of animal behavior to get information on from the internet. Perhaps Doctorlit would have more insight... -
I'm very much obsessed with this concept by
on 2019-05-10 15:52:00 UTC
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I'm a big bloody fan of that story concept honestly! I think it might make for better short story territory--it could be told in the exact kind of condensed chunk short stories are good for to get the meaning across, and I'm not really sure sort of, uh, how the filming would work. Sort of, cutting between the POVs but not explaining it, kinda hiding it? Iunno. I'm a writerman and know nothing of moving images. I also just really like short stories.
Although, those are also some pretty powerful images to see actually filmed in action.
My own personal writing project and worldbuilding is centred around this stuff. I think it's somewhat understandable that most fiction is pretty anthropocentric, what with being written by humans, for humans, but I've always been interested in--at least trying to--shatter that human-centric feeling. It makes complete logical sense, though, still, I always do feel a bit disappointed when every RPG puts humans as the default and boring 'choose +2 points where you want' race. What other species would be the default, after all?
I think a couple of great examples I'm personally very fond of are in Slaughterhouse-Five, though it is played a lot more farcical and satirical than in a real sense of worldbuilding. The Tralfamadorian perception of a human is actually kind of similar to the way your fella sees a human--as a long centipede kind of form, with a baby at one end and a dead old man at the other. The reason being that they of course perceive all moments of time at once.
The webcomic-ey sorta thing (It's in that Homestuck tradition of being a bit of a multimedia mess) Awful Hospital also looked brilliantly at this.
A big part of its worldbuilding is the sentience of everything, and how the universe is composed of the opposing perspectives of all things. It's described as like: on earth, we have a world where humans are born and make cars and drive them. At the exact same time, in the same space, there is a world where sentient cars are born in factories and are gifted central nervous system-creatures to help pilot them around until their death. Neither of these perspectives are wrong: they both coexist and are brought into being by being perceived.
So on.
It makes a point, even, that when a group of humans form into a crowd--that crowd is, for a brief moment, a singular, sentient creature, that dies immediately when that crowd disperses.
I've been working on the legal, encyclopedic definition of a human being from the context of this worldbuilding. This is what I've figured so far:
3 Compressional Involuntarily Drifting Oxygen-Respiring Tubiformous Carbonoform
'3 Compressional Involuntary Drifting' refers to the human experience of linear time--involuntarily moving through three 'compressions' (a sort of combined measurement of space-time, which are essentially the same thing) at a time. As opposed to Compressional Sweeping where something simultaneously exists in all these compressions at once, or Compressional Hopping, where something just sort of pops between them.
Oxygen-respiring is obvious, tubiformous refers to the fact that a human is basically a big tube, morphologically not really distinct from a worm other than a bunch of added floppy bits, and carbonoform refers to, uh, us being carbon.
I think it's a bit clunky, I don't know. I'd be interested in seeing everyone else's thoughts on a sort of, bored bureaucratic alien definition of a human.