Aw, thanks! (nm)

Subject: Aw, thanks! (nm)
Author: OrangeFox
Posted on: 2023-09-29 04:58:35 UTC

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New not-missions! by OrangeFox on 2023-09-28 01:09:02 UTC Writing Reply

As the title suggests, neither of these are missions, but they're at least PPC writings to a degree. Both set in the past, in fact!

Starting off, here's the short First Contact. It's a rewrite of my very first piece of PPC writing - the Permission Request prompt for 'your agents first meet.' I figured it was worth canonizing at some point, so I gave it a little polish and let it fly.

And here's Years Prior, set even farther in the past, where a Suvian stumbles into the Cafeteria at the height of the Mary Sue Invasion. It also serves as an introduction to a couple of non-Action folks I might write more of in the future, plus a look at what Matterhorn was like earlier in his long, long career.

Anyways, hope you enjoy!

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Thoughts by Tomash on 2023-10-08 20:19:50 UTC Reply

I'm still liking Charlie's gender being "dunno, you tell me", and the intro piece is nice overall.

And it's nice to see the Cafeteria side of the 2008 invasion. I don't have any super-coherent thoughts on the piece, but it was well-written and I liked it. Though Matterhorn keeps being his very abrasive self.
re: not-missions by doctorlit on 2023-09-30 14:00:04 UTC Reply

First Contact

Fun! I really feel Jiwon’s nervousness here. Meeting new people in an unfamiliar place is scary, and of course, Charlie looks like a big cat! (They could maybe also learn to open doors a little more calmly, too!) You did a great job of making Jiwon’s animal mannerisms feel realistic when in fox form; it actually reminds me of a fennec fox I know! And Charlie’s carefree attitude is always fun, but I think this scene serves as an excellent introduction to them!

On this sentence:
He couldn't see the rest of the figure, so he scooted back forward an inch or two . . .
“back” and “forward” contradict each other; it will flow better to drop the “back.”
. . . so he scooted forward an inch or two . . .

Years Prior

Yay, I love seeing bits of PPC history revisited! And I love a bit of deconstruction of the past PPC’s view of Suvians, since they had a bit of “simultaneously threatening and pathetic” going on, there. It makes sense to me that at least some of the Suvians really weren’t down with suddenly being turned into soldiers. (I wonder if the Bindweed was using all the best warrior!Suvians in actual stories, and only had Suvians built for other genres, or just poor quality Suvians, available when the Somebody ordered the invasion?) I hope some of the other less offensive Suvians made it to safety, as well! (I also like the detail that the factory Suvians also refer to the invasion as an “emergency.” A bad time was had by all!)

I really love your expansion on the Kitchens as being a horrific labyrinth! It gives better justification to the fact that the Cafeteria workers never see each other. I’m especially tickled by the idea that the Kitchen maze is arbitrarily filled with bathrooms, most of which probably never even see use! You also did a good job of showing the sanitary conditions of the Kitchens through character actions, rather than just stating it as background detail. (Tess noticing the staining, Matterhorn drinking from measuring cups and chopping with a rusted knife, etc.)

I’ve never really vibed with the joke about the Cafeteria serving Suvian meat, not on any moral ground, but just because it contradicts what the setting has established about glitter. It doesn’t make sense that anyone eating in the Cafeteria regularly wouldn’t eventually develop dangerous existential side effects from doing so. But I know that’s a long-established element of the setting, so this isn’t really a criticism of this story specifically, just me venting about our overall inconsistency about how dangerous glitter actually is.

What’s the joke with Tess’s name? It sounds a bit familiar to me too, but nothing is coming to memory . . .

—doctorlit, needing Charlie as a role model in chill

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re: re: not-missions by OrangeFox on 2023-09-30 19:19:51 UTC Reply

Glad the agents’ personalities showed through here! Funnily enough, I think the reason Jiwon’s fox traits felt realistic is because I spent an embarrassing amount of time researching what foxes do when frightened. Fixed up the contradiction near the start, too - thanks for catching that!

I’m pretty happy with how the old Cafeteria worked out as well! At least I think it did, judging by responses so far. It always felt like one of the less-explored facilities in HQ, despite the number of jokes about how weird it was in older works.

And yeah, I do wonder why the ‘eat the glitter’ part of the setting started, considering the whole in-universe idea on what glitter does. Am I missing something that makes it consistent? I might try researching the old lore, see if there’s an answer there.

To be honest? I forgot what the ‘familiar’ part of Tess’s name was exactly supposed to be - a downside of my WIPs taking months to even years of on-and-off work to finish, haha. I think it might have been in reference to the fact that there was another Tess in HQ around the time this takes place in?

But yeah, thanks for reading!

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Re. Glitter/its properties by Neshomeh on 2023-09-30 19:44:43 UTC Reply

Various PPC authors have had various ideas at various times over the years. My recollection is that the idea of Glitter being the cause of Suvian-ness (as opposed to a by-product of it, I guess?) is a later addition to the lore than the idea of BL2. It's also possible the two ideas evolved by side, and the former won out because it offers an avenue to make Suvians redeemable, and that's what we prefer these days. If you can de-Glitter them, they can be fixed!

'Course that's not always possible; some characters are so undeveloped there's nothing left without the Glitter. But I digress.

The point is, the PPC is the creation of many people with little to no obligation toward internal consistency with anything other than TOS. Some inconsistencies are to be expected.

The good news is, there's still little to no obligation toward internal consistency with anything other than TOS. It's nice to try—what's the point of writing in a shared universe if everyone plays by themself in their own corner of the sandbox?—but everyone is quite free to ignore any details they don't like.

For instance, I don't care one whit about collecting povs, so you won't see me mentioning them. {= )

It IS fun to try to make sense of the contradictions, though. ^_^

~Neshomeh

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A Brief History of Glitter by Huinesoron on 2023-10-02 12:30:10 UTC Reply
One advantage of having an archive on Google Docs is you can just search it. ^_^ Most of the earliest mentions of "glitter" have nothing to do with Suvians (one is literally "All that is gold does not glitter"), but here's some of the highlights:
- Protectors of the Plot Discontinuum 2, May 2002 - first appearance of "glitter" in the Grand Archive! I think it's just glitter-glitter, though: "Mary and Sue jumped up, make-up, teddy bears, and faux-fur and glitter flying everywhere."
- The DAVD Files, Oct & Nov 2002 - Dour K uses "glittery" portals three times (plus someone's eyes glitter).
- JAAKSONS, Mar 2003 - "Remarkably, Sues didn’t bleed when killed; they only let off small puffs of glitter." This is probably the origin of the idea.
- JAAKSONs 3, Jul 2003 - "Nenya looked at the bottle [of bleeprin] as if it were a container of Mary Sue glitter." Nenya and Rosie really went for this idea.
- DoSAT, Dec 2003 - "little piles of glitter where the NASTY fangirls had been killed." - Delta Juliette seems to have been the first person to pick the concept up.
- Ode to Bleeprin, Dec 2003 - "Oh Bleeprin, you magical pill! / You easily cure every fanfiction ill, / From sweet Mary Sue, all covered in glitter / To Pippin and Gandalf, slashily a-twitter."
Glancing through the hits for 2004... in April Agent Quen talks about "Glitter, a major component of the blood of Mary Sues", while in July Agent Melanin Butterfly described her ex-Suvianness as causing "Glitter everywhere. Glitter on whatever I touch. Glitter on whoever I shake hands with. Glitter whenever I bleed. I think there's even glitter woven into my hair. I exhale glitter." I think both of those were Nenya's agents actually. ^_^ It comes up in the PPC Handbook which Nenya wrote, too.

Also in the handbook, and listed by me as dating to Jan 2004, is the Substance List, which includes both Sue Souffle and Water. So it looks like you're right: glitter was a foodstuff before it was a cause of Suedom.

I actually wonder if glitter only became part of the cause of Suedom with the Scientific Theory of Suvian Origins, which looks to be from early 2008. I know we didn't use it in The Reorganisation, when we were literally creating Suvians; and the Training Academy of Mary Sues from the same era doesn't infect its students with it either.

If it's any consolation, I think Sue Souffle and Water were always meant to be creepy and weird. Remember: "We're evil. Miss Cam is evil. This is just sad."

hS
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The connection formed earlier, but I reckon that + Lily's "Spectrum" solidified it. by Neshomeh on 2023-10-02 14:31:10 UTC Reply

I definitely had "Theory" and "Spectrum" in the back of my mind, and see also Sueicosis and Vambiolaria.

Sueicosis was introduced by Elcalion in "An Announcement From Medical" in April 2006. It's a disease caused by the inhalation of Sue glitter that leaves one predisposed to fangirl/fanboy behavior and possibly full Suedom, though the latter was couched as speculation.

Notably, Elcalion says that the idea came up "in reply to speculation about the damage eating a Mary Sue might do to the agent." So, yeah, people have had concerns about that going way back, too.

Even in the original substance list, it's noted that Sue Soufflé is "for those PPCers who do not consider Sues to be of the same species as they are, or who really don’t care that much about cannibalism" and that it should not be consumed by anyone allergic to glitter. The description of Water (processed Sue-blood + caffeine) says it's "for the vampiric or just plain dementedly ticked-off agent," and mentions that it's one of the least popular drinks in the General Store. Neither of these was ever considered a good idea. {= )

Then there's Vambiolaria, which featured in The Hogwarts Fanfiction Academy chapters 11-13, published in October 2002 (per earliest review dates). It has nothing to do with glitter, but it does turn the afflicted person into a Mary Sue, and HFA may be among the earliest works to suggest that Suedom could be an acquired affliction. And then Vambiolaria and Sue glitter were later explicitly combined as a weapon by none other than Lily Winterwood in 2010 and 2011, for the invasions of IAHF.

~Neshomeh, globally right-brain processing for the win.

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I definitely remember using the Scientific Theory of Suvian Origins by Lily Winterwood on 2023-10-02 12:49:16 UTC Reply

as well as The Suvian Proteome, when I was creating the Spectrum of Suvian Species. But yeah, it's always been a bit silly/creepy that some agents directly consume Sue meat and blood, though I always got the sense that it was like... restricted to background character agents who'd just fully lost it. Maybe it's like getting prion disease...

I may have one of the few "mainline" agents who ate Sue Souffées with gusto. by Sergio Turbo on 2023-10-02 15:51:19 UTC Reply

Corolla, who to be fair isn't human herself being an Unison Device from Lyrical Nanoha - she's basically a sentient technomagical construct. She did swear them off after discovering one of her partners is actually a reformed Gary Stu though, and in fact she can't even stand the smell now.

Said partner, Sergio, is the perfect example of how I used Suvian statuses and glitter myself: while he's pretty much reformed, he can relapse under extreme stress (as in, while going in berserk rage as it happened here) and one of the symptoms is indeed the reappearance of glitter inside his blood.

Corolla's theory on that was that since he had been pushing himself to the limit due to the various shenaningans of the Unraveled World, his body looked into a way to increase those limits - said relapse, implying that glitter is either the catalyst for the reality warping abilities, or a byproduct of it.

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Oh hey, Invasion! by Huinesoron on 2023-09-29 14:35:39 UTC Reply

It... distresses me that it was so long ago that you can title something like this "Years Prior".

Anyway, most of the good stuff I noted was already commented by Neshomeh, including nattering about Defectives and Slorp. (The original Defectives were just sort of pale and colourless, but the term just means any Suvian who didn't come out of the tank perfect and glittery; I think Tess would be one by definition, but I'm not gonna force the label on her.)

On the word "Suvian" - you're right that it only came in later, but I personally project it back as well (see: this set in 1999). My reason is that "Mary Sue" has always been, and increasingly is, used as a sexist insult to any female character the speaker doesn't like. When we've got an alternative available, I'd prefer to use it. But that's my own decision, not some sort of mandate. (It also saves me having to decide which male version to use - they're all just Suvians. ^_^)

hS

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Thanks for reading! by OrangeFox on 2023-09-29 16:21:53 UTC Reply

And yeah, fair enough on the Suvian label point. Felt like emulating the times this story took place in, but I could've probably done with restricting it to dialogue, yeah. Removing the gendering of the term does make things easier too, for sure.

Ooh, a new take on the Invasion. by Neshomeh on 2023-09-29 03:57:17 UTC Reply

I like it!

I guess Tess is one of the Defectives? (Or maybe a couple of them smashed together?) It seems to fit her pale, unfinished appearance and lack of obvious abilities.

And, I don't recall if it was the intention at the time or not, but it does make sense to me that the Factories cranked out a bunch of Defectives to fill out the Sue army for the Invasion. It DOES explain why most of them were so useless, haha.

You're not the first person to observe that, incidentally. Not to toot my own horn, but IIRC, one of the comments I got on "Gestalt Therapy" was that it was the first Invasion story someone had read that made them believe the agents might actually be in danger. Though even so, thinking back, I'm wondering if I could have had more people than Barker get seriously injured, and like, more on-screen... Ah well. It's a long time ago now.

I like your description of the kitchens! It's kind of terrifying, not least because of Matterhorn's blatant disregard for food safety. No wonder Cafeteria food is so hit or miss. You never know whose "cuisine" is going to make it to the buffet line on any given day. {X D

Big kudos for the foreshadowing of Slorp, too!

One critique: You switch point of view from Matterhorn to Tess, and I was thrown off a bit when we started getting her visual impressions and opinions when we'd started out following Matterhorn's. I point this out only because I'm not sure if it was an intentional choice or something that just happened while you were writing. You definitely can switch POVs in a story (without announcing it, even)—just make sure you're doing it for a reason. {= )

General writing pointer: Consider removing at least one adjective/adverb before leaving the paragraph. Some examples from the first two paragraphs:

labyrinthian maze

This is redundant. You could take just the stronger of the two terms, labyrinth, and have an overall stronger sentence.

In one of these kitchens was an old, incredibly wrinkled man in Cafeteria-standard whites, his apron and bristly gray beard smeared with thick sauce. He chopped away at an onion, occasionally pausing to wipe the fumes from his beady, sunken eyes with the back of his bony hand.

Loooots of descriptors in this paragraph; you could probably stand to lose at least two. First, I'd cut "thick" and optionally use a stronger verb than "smeared" to give the impression. Slopped or caked, maybe.

Second, I'd cut "beady, sunken" and, again optionally, use a simile instead. It's hard (for me) to reconcile beady (bead-like, round and shiny) with sunken (in shadow, possibly dull from ill health), so some imagery would be very helpful in getting across what you mean. Are his eyes, idk, bear-like, perhaps? But really, I don't think this is the place to be describing his eyes at all, since the action you're narrating has him covering them. Focus on the hand here, and save the eyes for a moment when they're important.

I also read "First Contact," but as short as it is, I'm afraid I don't have much to say about it. I'd definitely grant you Permission (again), though. ^_~

~Neshomeh

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Thanks for the feedback! by OrangeFox on 2023-09-29 05:01:22 UTC Reply

And glad you like it! This is a slight shift from the type of writing I’m used to, so it’s nice to know I’m not fully lost at it, heh. Things like the unsafety of the kitchens and the explanations for most of the invading Suvians being useless were very fun to write.

About Tess… honestly? I didn’t think about the Defectives when making her, but it does look like a neat possibility. I’d have to research them some more before deciding in full confidence, but it would explain a bit.

Funnily enough, the foreshadowing to Slorp is mostly unintentional - but this does kind of work as that, now that I think of it. A nice surprise, for sure!

I’ll admit, I think I forgot about POV consistency while I was writing this. Probably something to keep in mind for the future, or at least figure out how to manage it smoother for pieces like this one.

And I’ll definitely keep the less descriptors in mind as well. Looking back on it, I’ve noticed I have a tendency to go a bit florid and/or redundant when describing settings, so thanks for the heads-up on that! I’ll prolly give this one another check to clear out some extra descriptors.

(Also I’m glad First Contact came out fine too! Was slightly worried I’d mess something up because of how much I changed it from the original, haha.)

Thanks for checking these out!

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Nice to see these've been posted! by Linstar on 2023-09-28 10:35:50 UTC Reply

Read 'em, y'all, they're good!

-Ls

Aw, thanks! (nm) by OrangeFox on 2023-09-29 04:58:35 UTC Reply