Then my "advice" is moot then~ ^^'

I need some professional help. by AnnaBee on 2012-04-30 19:08:00 UTC Reply

I have a friend who is trying to get my help to stop writing Sues and Stues. She is asking me- not the other way around- and so I feel kinda obligated to help her.

The problem? All of her characters- good, bad, and indifferent- are raging Sues. When she adds character flaws, they become anti-sues or villain sues. They all warp reality so that everything they do works out for the best... and my characters try not to help with this, but she still needs a lot of help.

Any advice you can give me would be greatly appreciated.

Hmmm... by HimochiIsAwesome on 2012-05-01 13:12:00 UTC Reply

I have a slightly similar problem... A friend of mine writes pretty bad self-inserts...
For example, his main character is a version of himself who's the lovechild of fem!Prussia and someone-or-other (I forget) who is mistaken for Russia by Belarus and then killed by her when she discovered he wasn't Russia. ._.
I'm not sure of the best way to let him know... maybe I should link him the page on the Wiki that explains about Mary Sues, Gary Stus and Airy Oohs. Hmm...

But back on the main topic... I'm not sure. Maybe you could sit with her and write a short story and point out where she's going wrong as she writes it?
I'm not sure whther that's good advice or a complete load of caffeine-fueled twaddle.

I've been writing/RPing with her for months. by AnnaBee on 2012-05-01 16:04:00 UTC Reply

o,o Seriously? Mistaken... for Russia. o,o

I have some 'kids of Prussia', not going to lie... but *if* the nations can have children with humans, of COURSE they're all going to have had a kid or two somewhere... And Prussia and France would have more than 'a kid or two'. And neither of them are me (though they've both got rotten names. XD)

That usually helps. Careful not to let him get offended.

Then my "advice" is moot then~ ^^' by HimochiIsAwesome on 2012-05-04 10:05:00 UTC Reply

Yeah... it's getting kind of bad... Except somehow he's mistaken for Russia despite having different hair. He explains it with something along the lines of 'Belarus would just assume he'd changed his hair to hide from something' but... some serious amounts of "WAT." going on there.

And I understand your point with them and humans (I think of Percy Jackson and the Gods' many kids with humans) but it was the child of Prussia and another country... I just can't remember who... It might have been Russia. Yeah, I think it was Russia. Because he's a Russia and Prussia fanboy. But he doesn't like yaoi (to the point where he threw up after reading a EnglandWales RP I had). It makes no sense!

whether*** (nm) by HimochiIsAwesome on 2012-05-01 13:13:00 UTC Reply

The most important thing. . . by Mysterial on 2012-04-30 22:24:00 UTC Reply

in my opinion is for the author to always remember that the world, whether it be original or a canon, does not revolve around the character. She doesn't have to be speshul, but if everyone acts like they would have no motivation to do anything if she wasn't there, the character is a sue all the same.
That's just the mindset I try to put myself in when trying not to write mary sues. It's a great place to start, and If you can keep it in mind while writing, sues are less likely to show up.
At least for me.
Might be difficult to give specific advice without details by the Irish Samurai on 2012-04-30 20:07:00 UTC Reply

Are you able to share an example of her work?

I think I recall reading something, either in one of the historic posts here or on the wiki, where someone had given 2 descriptions of the same character; one 'normal' and one Sued. If I can find it, I'll put the link up, it might be useful as a 'desueifying' template.

Other than that, most of the pages on the wiki relating to Sues and the writing guide might be a good place to start.

Sure. Sample following. by AnnaBee on 2012-04-30 20:17:00 UTC Reply

Problem is, she knows most of the common Sue traits and has been trying to get rid of them... she just... they're still Sues. I dunno HOW you make a six-year-old blind girl a Mary Sue, but she did it.

------
Le Sample:

She took her knife, sliced a cut in her leg and one on her arm. It would make the act more believable but she winched in pain. Tears slid down her cheeks as she remembered what she desired to fight for. A scream parted her lips. Birds flew up from the tree branches as her voice echoed through the night. The soldier's on their horses stopped. Sabrina flew down the mountain side, well actually chose to roll down the hill. Dirt, grime and leaves stuck in her hair, and became a mass of tangles. The pain in her leg and arm stung but she cried out as she tumbled down. When she had come to a complete stop she laid face up, tears streamed down her face. Her fingertips dug into the sand. The soldier's dismounted and stared down upon her. “Please... it... it took my son...”
Two of the men exchanged glances at each other. The red head bent down and helped her up. She duested the dirt off and continued to sob.
“It?” The red head spoke softly. His bright green hues locked onto hers.
“A... a chupacabra... it took my son. I tried to fight if off but it overwhelmed me, threw me down a mountain side...” Sabrina was a good actress. She showed the men her wounds and sobbed hysterically.
The one that stood next to the red head frowned. “Nasty creatures. They mainly dwell in the desert lands like this one. They also stay off the lantern path and feed off of animals and other small prey. I have rarely heard of one go after a small child unless it was desperately hungry.”
Sabrina gulped. She looked at the red head, a young boy. She took in his ruffled appearance, he was about her height, well groomed and muscle. Rope after rope lined his stomach. She smelt a faint odor of tobacco on the man though. His gaze held her captive. For a minute, Sabrina almost choked but she held her ground steady and continued to let the tears flow.
“What were you doing off the lantern path mi lady?” The older gentleman asked.
“I...my.... my son and I got lost!” She sobbed. “I got lost, please that monster is going to eat my son!” The older gentlemen turned to the younger one and pulled him back a ways as one of the others wrapped cloth around her wounds. She read their lips as they spoke quietly.
“We shouldn't trust her.” The older one told the red head. “She could be a raider, lost in the woods with the lantern path this close? I don't believe it.”
The older gentleman scoffed. “Vortigren, silence your tongue. She's in hysteria can't you tell?” He told him. “Don't you know your manners? We should always aid those in need. The king's mission can wait.”
The man scowled. His voice turned cold, Sabrina could tell by how he mouthed his words. “It could be a bloody trap and you are going to lead us right into it?” He seemed to command. The younger boy sighed.
“Is this my mission or is this not my mission?” He retorted. “I say we go. If we find out she is lying, we will take her to the king, we are heading North East, we have to catch our targets before they catch the bridge any ways.”
“I do not like this plan.” Vortigren hissed, Sabrina waited patiently, and let little gasps escape her lips. She flinched as the soldier stitched the knife cut on her leg and wrapped it gently.
“There you are miss.” He said politely.
“Thank you... please I just want my son back...” She sobbed, the younger man nodded as she gazed back up at the two men. The red head approached her. He was serious. He stood erect, his hands in his pockets as he pulled out his tobacco pipe and lit it. There was a spark of flame and he exhaled a cloud of smoke. One of the soldier's groaned as his smoke trail lingered in the air and took off in a singular direction. Sabrina had never seen anything like it as the boy's eye's narrowed.
“I know witch direction your son has been taken.” The man replied. “We will find him. Come on, you can ride my horse. I will walk.” She nodded. She had been intrigued that his pipe could track any one down. She would make sure her men would strike before they reached Central Leurex . She wouldn't let them know anything but how they would wake up in the morrow with binds and gags.

Hmm by ShatteredSanity on 2012-05-01 14:34:00 UTC Reply

Well, this character doesn't seem flat out Sue, but is on the edge.
She's just met these men, and after hearing their names ONCE she can remember them perfectly. Also, she just flung herself off a mountain. I think a real person would have a few more conflicting feelings about throwing themselves off a mountain. I don't see any mention of what Sabrina is feeling, which makes her seem like she isn't feeling anything at all. This gives off the feeling that she's always calm in the face of danger, which can be a Sue trait.

The soldier who is showing suspicion of Sabrina is quickly shushed, and is told that he's being unsympathetic. While he is, he is also using logic. But instead of taking his words into account, the other soldier stays kind and even offers to let Sabrina use his horse. While this might be realistic in this situation, he doesn't seem to be at all suspicious of her.

The soldiers are also giving the reader a healthy dose of exposition on what they're doing and what a chupacabra is. The way they're talking doesn't seem natural because of this.

The main problem though, is that we don't linger on her feelings. Is she feeling guilty about tricking these nice soldiers? Is she scared that she's going to get discovered?