Subject: Isn't there a difference between "respectful cameo"...
Author:
Posted on: 2013-05-31 17:21:00 UTC
and an actual character adoption?
Not trying to say anything about a specific fic, least of all yours. I've always enjoyed reading your work. I'm just asking whether there's a difference, with one slightly less potentially problematic?
Or maybe not so quick, depending on your perspective.
There was a post lately on agents that could be adopted for writing by someone else. What exactly classifies an agent as adoptable?
The reason for my question: lately, I've been finding several pages on the Wiki for agents that are clearly no longer active, so I was just wondering. Are obviously-inactive agents adoptable, or must they be specifically offered up for adoption?
I would at least try to get in touch with the original author first. In some cases that may not be possible, but then again, in some cases it may.
I personally don't like the idea of just taking someone else's character without permission. Just because there's nothing explicitly saying you can't doesn't mean you should, or that they would be okay with it. Furthermore, a lot of agents are people's OCs from original stories. Adopting them would be especially problematic, since the author may still be using them—just not here.
~Neshomeh
Since I have a whole kettle full of adopted agents, I think I can partially answer this by referencing the types of agents I currently have.
1/ The ones I created. These include people like Dafydd, Narto and Lou, and a handful of others. Obviously there's no problems there.
2/ The ones I co-created. Most of the cast of The Reorganisation were co-created by myself and Vemi. Again, I don't see any issues here.
3/ Agents who have specifically been given to me by their author. This is mainly for the Building Maintenance crew, who were passed on to me by JulyFlame when she left. Again, no problems.
4/ Agents who my agents have been on co-written missions with. This covers primarily Vemi and Constance. The latter is something of a special case halfway between this and 3. I only do this when their author has left, and there's something specific to do with them (Vemi's role in Crashing Down was planned before Vemi left, and Constance is of course married to Dafydd). Selene is also sort of in here, but she's also partly 2.
5/ Associates of those in 4. This is how I got Penny and Steve. I consider this reasonable, since they only really exist as appendages to the 'primary' agents.
6/ Those whose authors I worked closely with. This is essentially the reason behind my adoption of Starwind and Estelnar; I worked a lot with Boarder!Starwind, on the Multiverse Monitor and some of my stories, and occasionally have roles which her agents fit very well in.
7/ Long-abandoned agents. By this I mean really long, and I lay no claims of exclusivity. This is more of an 'unauthorised borrowing' style of thing, and lies behind my occasional use of Architeuthis, Black and Irvine, and very rarely Jay and Acacia. I justify this (to myself, at least!) by being very careful not to say only I can write them - and I know Archi has shown up recently in some DoI fics, so I apparently pulled it off. Basically, this is the 'rescuing and reintegrating into the PPC mythos' category.
There is another type, which I think is what you remember seeing recently:
8/ When an author has stopped writing their agents but is still around. In this situation, if there's a reason you want that particular agent (such as, recently, Lily wanting to use two Time Lords of Tawaki's) you can just ask the author if you can adopt them. The worst they can do is say no!
Obviously, the foundation of some of my adoptions is distinctly shaky. I do my best to keep the agents in character, and use them only rarely (Starwind and Estelnar, for instance, have shown up only once, in a 'but it's simply perfect!' moment). If their authors come back, I'll give them up without a fight - but at the moment, I think they're better off being used.
I wonder if that answered your question.
hS
PS: Out of sheer curiousity, which agents are you looking at?
Depending on your definition of "long-abandoned", all or none could be classified that way. Most of them have been unused since 2009 or 2010, and these are the main ones I'm interested in. I may post more, if I find them.
-Mira, written by Somariel (last seen 2010)
-Somariel, written by the same (last seen 2010)
-Crebaina Aisenyeva, written by Lycaenion (last seen 2010)
-Teek Virtanen, written by Lycaenion (last seen 2010)
-Laburnum, written by Laburnum (last seen 2010)
-Foxglove, written by Laburnum (last seen 2010)
Listed as inactive
-Lóce, written by Alania (last seen 2006)
-Infinity, written by Alania (last seen 2006)
-Lothloriel Elhyn, written by Lothy and Rowyn (unknown)
-Rowyn, written by Lothy and Rowyn (unknown)
-Ekwy Fields, written by Ekwy (last seen 2008)
-Milano Cricket, written by Milano (last seen 2008)
-Nea Forrest, written by Nea (see directly above)
Also, the "inactive" category states that any agents can be added who have not been written about for more than a year. Thus, may I add those not listed as inactive to the category?
And my feelings are as follows:
Since I haven't been active for quite a while now, I don't mind if you borrow/adopt Crebaina, so long as you show me the results. She kind of got the short end of the character development stick, so it would do my heart good to see someone give her new opportunities. I can provide all her extra canon biography if need be.
However, Teek has come a long way since her published missions, through a lot of off-Board roleplaying, and I'm pretty attached to her.
- Lycaenion
First of all, welcome back to the Board - if you're staying. If not, I'm glad you stopped by!
You see, I've really enjoyed Teek and Crelmos's missions - in fact, they're some of my favorites. I think their interaction is interesting and played very well - Crelmos is creepy enough to infuriate Teek, but not creepy enough to make the story unfunny. I like how in their first mission, it's an incredibly boring, clichéd Sue, which lets Teek and Crelmos shine. I keep trying to imagine a Cardassian hobbit, and it cracks me up every time. However, I'm especially fond of the mission with the horse goddess - the way you thoroughly deconstructed the stupidity of the original fic was wonderful, and I like Teek's speculations about a good story with a lust curse. It might be a plot bunny. And like I said, Crelmos is just the right amount of evil and creepy to make Teek angry, but not so much as to change the story's tone into anything other than humorous. And that is exemplified in the disguise generator trick he pulls on her.
I think the third mission's greatest strength is simply how mind-bogglingly stupid the original fic is, and how Teek and Crelmos are just trying to deal with it. If the results of Crelmos's "experiment" at the end, and Teek's reaction to said experiment is ever written, I will read it.
In fact, if you ever write any more missions involving Teek and Crelmos as partners, or with Crelmos, I will read them. I confess, I haven't read any more of Teek's missions because I read those when scouring the wiki for Star Trek stuff.
Long story short, you have a fan.
Wow - that stuff is a(n embarrassingly) long time ago in terms of writing and development of those characters for me. It's quite nice to hear that you enjoyed it.
Feel free to keep that plot bunny. :)
Hmm, let's see... Teek hasn't done any Star Trek missions yet, but she's now in the DMS and has a new partner, Kayla, of whom she is very protective (though Kayla really doesn't need it). They get along very well, though. As of this July, Teek will be 21.
Crelmos has stayed in Floaters and is currently partnerless, which he finds preferable. It was very difficult for him to recover from the damage living with Teek did to his mental stability, but he's getting there. However, missions don't interest him that much (he still dreams of someday getting back into Research) so he treats them very clinically; he tends to hide in his RC most of the time doing inter-universe scientific literature studies and working on new theories.
For the future with Trek-related stuff... well, I have a Romulan Agent who's very enjoyable to write about, along with his World One human partner. And I think Crelmos's Cardassian ex-girlfriend (she's not shown up in anything I've published, but has had an eventful RP and non-/semi-canon career) could also do with some character revamping.
Anyway, enough of me rambling. Great to hear from you. :)
but Boarders who have named Agents after themselves usually have those characters as modified self-inserts(see Trojie/Trojanhorse and Pads/Paddlebrains), and they would probably not like it if people went and used said self-inserts without definite permission on their part.
You'd be better off trying to get the original writer's okay for character adoption before using the self-inserts as a large part of any story.
I'm more and more uncomfortable with the idea of adopting characters without permission (or at least knowing the author well enough to know it's okay). Definitely try to get in touch with those people first. I guarantee you can track most of them down if you try; they'll have LiveJournals or deviantART accounts or something. If you get permission, great. If not, I'd strongly suggest letting it go.
Actually, speaking of permission, Aelin, do you have Permission to PPC yet? If not, I'd wait until you get that before pursuing this any further.
~Neshomeh
and an actual character adoption?
Not trying to say anything about a specific fic, least of all yours. I've always enjoyed reading your work. I'm just asking whether there's a difference, with one slightly less potentially problematic?
I think a cameo is when an agent appears in one mission, then vanishes. Cf. the mass exorcism of Alumia. Adoption, OTOH, is permanent (until you go away, anyway) - you use that agent as your own.
I can't give you a definitive answer, but I'd say probably just use the ones explicitly up for adoption.