Confusion

I need help with the Tolkienverse pages. by Wikimaster on 2011-12-01 15:23:00 UTC Reply

You see, many of them were created early in the Wiki's history, and thus contain a lot of things that would be frowned upon today, including attacks on Authors, an informal tone that goes against the intention of the Wiki (example I deleted: However, Luthien, a part-Elf, part-Maia chick, and her pet dog beat him up for capturing her boyfriend Beren), and several redundancies. Not merely that, but several of them lack images (including the Sauron and Saruman pages).

I tried to fix the situation, but I ended up making a lot of mistakes as well. So I'm asking for help as this seems to be too much for just me.

Confusion by Neshomeh on 2011-12-01 22:10:00 UTC Reply

Mainly, I'm wondering where you got the idea that being informal is frowned upon. I don't think that's the case. Heck, I've heard complaints recently that pages aren't entertaining enough. Is there something saying otherwise somewhere?

Also, I don't think there's anything saying all pages must have images, either. They're nice, of course, but still, nothing to panic over.

It's okay to take things slow, too. Just do one article at a time, and research twice, edit once if you're worried about mistakes. Really, it's no big deal. {= )

Not that more people shouldn't help edit the wiki, of course.

~Neshomeh

I'm sorry, I was looking for another word... by Wikimaster on 2011-12-02 09:37:00 UTC Reply

It's just that 'informal' was the first word I had for it, even though it's innacurate. What I should have have said was that the earlier articles sometimes state the obvious a lot, sometimes as early as the second sentence of the article. Not merely that, but there are several understatements (reffering to Huan as merely a pet dog, which is innacurate) and overstatements. Does this clear up the confusion?

As for Images, no, not all pages should have images, but it would still be nice if there were more of them on the Wiki. You're right, I shoudn't have been panicking over them, but still, I'd like a splash of color now and again.

I get where you're coming from. by Neshomeh on 2011-12-03 17:44:00 UTC Reply

Still, that particular statement is funny because it's a massive understatement. I can see how someone not familiar with the continuum might be confused, but I think it'd be a shame to edit out all continuum-specific humor like that. Rather, I'd make sure the straight information is available somewhere, and I think the off-site links there cover that well, since we don't have or really need pages for Huan or Luthien. I'd apply the same principle to any similar under- or overstatements that are used for humor.

~Neshomeh

Actually... by Wikimaster on 2011-12-03 18:55:00 UTC Reply

...I did include off-site links for Huan and Luthien on the Sauron article (though they look exactly like an in-site link for some reason). And what truly got me were the seeming trivilizations of the Kinslayings and the Sinking of Numenor, but then I remembered that those were fictional tragedies, and that sometimes, the understatements were intended to be Ironic. That said, many of those understatements are also used to shorten the article, to the point that the entire Numenor page consists of just one line (An island in Middle-earth which Men lived on, until it sank. Unsurprisingly, Sauron had quite a bit to do with this).

Actually, that page could be a good target for deletion, as links to Lotr.Wikia and Tolkien Gateway can supply the necessary information.

Maybe. by Neshomeh on 2011-12-03 21:22:00 UTC Reply

I've looked at the Numenor page with an eye for expanding it more than once, but never did it (she said, stating the obvious). Again, I think that page is fine as it is for simple humor value; and really, what else needs to be said about Numenor? I don't think it was written that way to shorten anything, but just to convey the most pertinent information in a fun way. On the other hand, the same information could certainly be given elsewhere, like the Arda page, and still be funny. That would be a good middle ground.

I saw that Luthien and Huan are external links, actually. What I meant was they could be used with the original line, to keep the humor as well as providing more information for anyone who wants it.

~Neshomeh

Ah. by Wikimaster on 2011-12-04 10:40:00 UTC Reply

How about an alternate line (However, he was defeated by Luthien and Huan, and only his talent at spin that enabled him to survive Morgoth's wrath)?

Hm, perhaps. by Neshomeh on 2011-12-05 20:20:00 UTC Reply

It's not as funny as the original line, IMO, but it should be less potentially confusing to an outsider. So, yeah, I guess I'd accept that. (Shouldn't have the word "that" after "spin," though.)

In general, though, I still say try not to sacrifice humor on the altar of pure fact.

~Neshomeh

I can give it a try by galenfea on 2011-12-01 20:08:00 UTC Reply

Not sure how much I'll get done, though.

There are paragraphing problems in the Saruman section... by Wikimaster on 2011-12-03 19:30:00 UTC Reply

...and I don't know where to start with that. Also, if you can find Public Domain pictures of Sauron, Faramir, and other major characters, that would be great (although as mentioned above, not entirely necessary). The Denethor page is also sparse, even though he's one of the most OOC characters in LotR fic.

OK by galenfea on 2011-12-07 19:52:00 UTC Reply

I've made some small changes to the Saruman page, among others, and added a lot to the Denethor page. I'm worried that the movieverse section is... somewhat more judgemental than it could be, but it's something :) I'll see what I can do for pictures.