While I do agree,,,

A question concerning a friend by Karen Elaine DuLay on 2011-04-10 01:36:00 UTC Reply

Okay, I have a friend that writes fanfiction, but I seriously think she may be writing Mary Sues. Her characters always have a tragic past, amazing powers that allow them to defeat some of the most powerful canon characters, and wierd colorings. Her latest creation, a Sailor Moon character (okay, she has a whole TEAM, but the main character is the one I'm focusing on), is a Princess with rainbow-colored hair whose Sailor Scout form is Sailor Whirlpool. There's also a Sailor Nightmare, a Sailor Dream, a Sailor Black Hole, and a Sailor Mirror as well. Sailor Whirlpool, the leader, is able to fight with rainbows. If that's not Mary Sue-ish, what is?

Now, I love my friend dearly, but her Mary Sues are really ruining her stories. She has some pretty good story ideas, but her characters all seem to be shallow and uninteresting. I really want to talk to her about it, but I don't want to offend her, and she's the type that gets defensive and calls anybody who doesn't like her stories an idiot. Can anybody advise me on how to speak to her about this situation?

Link to the Story... by Karen Elaine DuLay on 2011-04-11 16:22:00 UTC Reply

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/6895592/1/Sailor_WhirlPool

There's the link to her story. I was accumulating a charge list as I read it. There are definite grammar violations, and I'm pretty sure Ayame is a Sue.

Other Badfic? Can I put it here? by E.M.S. on 2011-04-12 20:20:00 UTC Reply

Since I heard we aren't supposed to start a new thread for every badfic, I decided to post this here. Let me know if I'm out of line.

A Sandman badfic that was thankfully never finished. Rated M, NSFW, though the author stopped before any slash happened. And as a warning, all of the chapters so far are repeated at the beginning of the next, so you can go straight to chapter 3 and read the whole thing.

"Deaths Vacation" http://www.fanfiction.net/s/2653455/3/Deaths_Vacation

"What would happen if Death to a Vacation from what she did. what would happen, would the world end...what would happen? this is the story. Rated M for violence, FF pairings, suicide and other related issues surrounding death, and drug use and rape. please"

Thanks All by Karen Elaine DuLay on 2011-04-10 17:07:00 UTC Reply

Okay. Your advice has been taken to heart. I'm very grateful for it, because I'm worried about what might happen if my friend tries to put her work out in the public and gets flamed. You are all wonderful, amazing people.

If that happens by Sedri on 2011-04-11 07:26:00 UTC Reply

Then it's not your fault; if she rages, it won't be directed at you, and if she rants about it to you, you can listen and nod sympathetically - because it's certainly true that flames are unfair - and maybe find a way to carefully suggest that maybe her fic could use some improvements. And if she's not open to listen then, you can still drop it. So, good luck either way.

Yeah... by Gamma on 2011-04-10 04:38:00 UTC Reply

I have a friend like that, too, only she writes Mary-Sues in original fiction. Her ideas definitely have merit, but the characters- both boys and girls, actually- are shallow and over-powerful. What I've done is tentatively offer up some advice, and when she starts to get cold about it, I just let it drop.
It's always a matter of judgement. by Sedri on 2011-04-10 02:20:00 UTC Reply

Sometimes the people who write these sorts of cliches can be very open to comments and quite willing to work to improve their stories, in which case I would suggest some combination of tactful doubt and politely pointing out flaws. In this case, however, since you say she gets defensive and lashes out at critics, I think you would be best off leaving it be. She's your friend, and it's even harder to give constructive criticism in that context; strangers are easier in that, if they fly into a rage about it, you can walk away and never talk to them again, but you can't do that here.

I realise that's not what you were after, but it seems to me like you feel it's your responsibility to make sure your friend's stories are as good as they can be; it's not. If she's asked you to beta her work, that's another issue - she'd have to accept the honesty she asked for - but just approaching her and saying "I'm sorry, but your stories have problems"? That's your initiative, and my advice would be not to do it. Let her write whatever she wants for now; everyone grows out of that phase eventually.

If you're going mad and desperate to do something, them naybe you could find some good fanfics for that fandom and suggest that she might enjoy reading them - and if she does, chat about those stories and all their good points, and let her see for herself how her own work doesn't measure up. I find this works better with touchy people, since they feel like they can fix the problems without other people knowing about them, which is often the most sore point with defensive writers.

Of course, you'll get other responses disagreeing with me, and there might indeed be a good way to talk to her about this, but I, personally, wouldn't.

While I do agree,,, by Phobos on 2011-04-10 02:58:00 UTC Reply

And I do. Sedri is correct in this. If your friend is that defensive, it may be best to leave it alone for the sake of the friendship.

However, if you still intend to talk to your friend about it, then here is what I would suggest.

1)Wait for them to ask you. Very important. They need to initiate the conversation. They may ask, "So, what did you think?" or some other question about how you feel about the work. If they don't ask, don't bring it up.

2)Be sure to emphasize that you think they have good story ideas. Tell them that you really enjoy their stories, then dip you toe in the con-crit end of the pool. The worst thing you can do is start with the negative. It automatically puts people on the defensive, which you want to avoid.

3)If they seem receptive to change, offer to help. That's what friends are for, after all.

4)If they are not receptive to change, let it go. And who knows, she may come around eventually anyway.

-Phobos the advice guru

I agree wholeheartedly by Teddy Leach on 2011-04-10 11:00:00 UTC Reply

In fact, I would have posted the exact same thing.
Agreed completely. (nm) by Sedri on 2011-04-10 08:28:00 UTC Reply