Mainly because when I read this thread yesterday I was too annoyed to reply to it immediately.

So what if one person doesn't know what DBS is? Earlier this year a survey was held in which all boarders were asked to tell a little about themselves, such as had they read TOS, how many missions had they written and who is their favourite agent pair. I remember from the results that a good number of people listed Trojie and Pads as their favourite agent pair. I think this is the most popular agent pair, so why be bothered about one person that doesn't know the acronym? Sounds like entitlement to me.

The other thing I was annoyed about is summarising all Sue missions as "See Sue, hunt Sue, kill Sue". I didn't bring it up when Trojie mentioned it a few months ago, but I was annoyed then too. I'd like to think that my missions are a little bit more than that. That during the hunt readers get a lot of information about the canon, about good writing / plot building, and about a variety of trivia that could be summed up as 'doing research'.

Sure, there is not much personal interacting between my agents, but after 50 missions or so, getting worked up about the other person's differences would get repetitive too. They've grown accustomed to each other.

Anyway, you don't read Sues, I don't read slash. I actually find most slash formulaic. Sues offer something different every time I see one. At least in my main fandom of the A-Team. I think I've done 25 Sue missions there, and not two Sues were alike.

So long, farewell, auf Wiedersehen, goodbye
Adieu.

IndeMaat

I'm sorry you feel the need to leave. I do hope you will return someday, and that I will have the honor of greeting you again when you do.

For whatever it may be worth, I am aware of the DBS, and plan to cover some Bad Slash missions myself, once I get Permission. Anyway...see you.

Thanks for your wonderful missions, I very much enjoyed reading them while I lurked around the board.

Best of luck with all of your future endeavors.

So far, everyone seems to have been very polite and sorry and apologetic about this, but quite frankly, Pads, I disagree. I think you're being melodramatic and perching precariously on a high horse of double standards. I'll start by saying right out that I'm probably taking this more personally than the others - I consider you my friend, not just a fellow PPCer - but I'm angry with you. I'll try to be objective nonetheless, but no promises.

Firstly, I'm going to echo what the others have said: This is the first I've heard of ANYONE around here not knowing what the DBS is. ever. Considering that it's in the Original Series and mentioned very often in other missions as well as here on the Board, I don't see how it's possible for anyone but a very green newbie not to know. I don't know who asked you that question in the Loungue, but why are you taking that as an indication of what the community as a whole thinks?

Second, as Neshomeh said, you haven't made it nearly clear enough that you think change is needed, let alone made specific suggestions. You haven't even really been around - lurking, maybe, but if you want a change, you need to contribute more than a rant-like post every so often. It's hard to get things moving around here, and I don't think it's fair that you sit back in silence for months on end and then say this. I knew you weren't exactly thrilled with how things are right now, but I had no idea you were this disgruntled, and we talk off-Board, yet the only person who seemed to have a real idea of your mindset was Trojie. Why did you have to up and leave so suddenly - couldn't you have made a "change is needed and I'm really tempted to leave" post first? I realise you've been unhappy for a while, but this whole post sounds like a knee-jerk reaction to one little incident - which, to be quite frank, is something I can see you doing on impulse and regretting later.

Next point: I've listened to you talk about 'more than just killing' and have spent months thinking about how I could remedy that in my own missions at least. Though I haven't had time to actually write it yet, my next pieces is going to involve Agent Sedri being rebuked for her bloodthirsty tendencies and sent into several non-Sue missions. I regret that my early missions - the first one in particular - were so graphically violent and killing-oriented. If this were any other kind of story I'd take them down and re-write, but the nature of the PPC isn't too condusive to that (given how easily our characters can become aware of being written themselves). I don't like slash and probably never will, but I'm more than willing to try sending Agent Sedri into a bad slash mission, and if that doesn't work, I plan to try crossovers. You don't object to crossovers, do you? After all, that Department isn't particularly well-known... Oh, but I'll bet no one is surprised to hear me mention it. How odd.

Fine, fine, I'll stop with the sarcasm. Try this: You have an aversion to Sues. I have an aversion to slash. Where do you get off telling me that I'm in the wrong? I have read slash missions, you know - yours, and others'. I've read slash stories as a favour to you and Trojie, though I've never liked them. Despite cringing at the bad grammar, I've read TOS - several times. I'm sorry, Pads, but I'm seeing a rather blatent double-standard here.

Also, I'm sorry that gruesome and violent deaths have become too much. It's true; they have. But let's not forget that Jay and Acacia inflicted some truly horrible deaths on their targets, and no one seems to be scolding them for that. Why am I feeling attacked here?

Yes, Miss Cam needs a beta, too. Everyone needs a beta - even I, even you, and you're the Grammar Nazi Queen. Even so, betas don't catch everything. Miss Cam's work is readable, and there's a dramatic difference between her errors and those of a chatspeak-writing fanbrat who clearly doesn't care at ALL. I'm not excusing those errors - it's the responsibility of every writer to get a beta - but you're being too hard on her, on everyone. If you feel personally insulted for not being consulted... well, too bad. Get over it. I'll remind you that you don't have to read it, and you don't have to like it just because others like it and call it "legendary"; there are some fanfics out there with very bad presentation that I read anyway because the story is so good - I've offered to beta and been turned down, but I still read because the story is worthwhile. If it upsets you that the wiki directs people to Miss Cam as a good example, change it. Make a comment in the article or delete the link. No one will object,

Also, no life? Why do you think I'm not here half the time? And if seeing the problems in my missions and actively seeking to correct them isn't considered 'grown up', then what is? Perhaps you didn't mean me when you said "the majority of you". You probably didn't; you probably meant the large number of newbies whom you haven't even talked to.

Of course it was noticed when you stopped writing - or don't you recall that people were asking about your missions, some putting a great deal of effort into trying to find them? Ah, but maybe you weren't around the Board at the time. Still, how often are particular PPC authors actually sought out like that? I'll tell you, no one has asked why I stopped writing; I guess my missions just weren't interesting enough. Oh, well. I'm not fussed. Why are you? I realise you put a lot of work into it - I've seen it - but the PPC is still supposed to be FUN, not about getting recognition. If I send my agent to the Department of Crossovers and in six months, a newbie reacts with surprise at the mention of the name, would I have a right to be upset? Probably not.

Last, even if you have excellent counter-arguments for everything I've said here, I don't see how you storming out like this is going to help matters, unless you think the shock value and making people feel guilty is going to manage it. If you want to leave, fine - I'll miss you, but it's your choice. But leaving like this... Maybe you don't see it as storming out, but I do. Text without tone or body language has a funny way of coming across differently than one might intend.

I don't want to be angry at you, Pads. You're my friend, and despite the acerbity of your post, it seems like you meant it to come across as a fairly even-handed explanation. It just didn't come across that way to me, likely because, as said, I'm taking this personally, or am just reading too much into this. I don't know.


...That's probably everything. At the very least, I'm out of words. I know I'll probably regret some of this and won't have made myself clear enough about other bits and will end up explaining myself or taking various things back, but right now, this is what I think.

Have fun wherever you go, cussin' and all.

But let's get this straight: Sue killing is not all newbies learn. When I looked up the Wiki articles, it was clear that Bad Slash missions didn't involve Sue killings. We're not quite so far gone as you think, but probably further gone than I think- oh well, too late.

I really enjoyed your missions, and it'll be a shame to see you leave, but if this is what you want to do, then I understand.

Goodbye and good luck, may your future endeavors be fruitful.

I'd thank you for the fish, but I'm not sure you gave us any.
I will, like at least half the other people here, jump in to say your set of spinoffs really has been one of my favorites. In fact, I'm pretty sure it's the inspiration for the Agents in the back of my head who are decidedly not Assassins.
If you're done, you're done, and I wish you the best, and hope to see you around again someday. Cheers.

You seriously think people don't think about Bad Slash? Umm... Wow. No, we do. It was probably the second department I was exposed to, and DBS missions were some of the first ones I read. There was a problem with the wiki where it was difficult to get to your missions for a while, though, and I had to track them down--I think that might've been part of the problem with people's lack of knowledge about DBS.

Notice how old most of the DMS missions are, compared to the more general Floaters missions? When I went through categorizing stuff, I realized the PPC has been moving away from outright Sue-killing for a while, so that at least three-quarters of new missions don't emphasize killing the Sue and about a third don't involve killing a Sue at all. Newer missions tend to focus on the odd-coupleness of the agents, the insanity of the fic, and the odd situations they get themselves into.

Yes, TOS needs a beta compared to what we're turning out now. But remember that Shakespeare's plots would be considered cliched and unoriginal today... because he started those ideas. TOS is something you read because it's what started everything. It's part of PPC history.

I was unaware that people don't know what the DBS is. It was pretty much the second department I heard about when I was still a newbie, the first being Floaters.

I was actually criticized once for not making an execution graphic enough, so I get where you're coming from there. Still, though, I'm sorry to see you leave.

Have a good one.

Some of the funniest missions I've ever read. Especially the ones with Oscar. Those were hilarious.

So, wherever the wind takes you, let the pestilence of Nurgle fall on you! Wait, no... that's not right... umm...

So long!

I'm saddened to see you leaving. Not that I really had a chance to know you what with only recently having discovered the place.

The PPC is a richer place for your having been part of it, and I am sad that it is your leaving that has prompted discussion of people writing more non killing missions.

I, for one, took your message in the "more than just killing stuff" thread to heart. That is why I teamed up with Neshomeh to spork a crossover. We did have killing in it, but it was a device used to draw attention to the fact that killing is not always the answer (and it was reversed later on).

I have been working on a new agent who will eventually end up in Floaters. I have plans for his first two missions, neither of which will involve killing a sue. I intend his first mission to be badslash as soon as I can find a fic worth sporking.

On another note: A lot of us are aware that the TOS needs a beta. Neshomeh is working diligently to beta the whole thing, but it is a long process, as you know. The need for a beta is one reason that I have not read the whole thing yet.

I suppose I should wrap this up before I begin to ramble.

There are those of us who are with you. We are working on helping to fix the problem, but it takes time. I hope that, at least, you will lurk for a while, see that something is being done, and come back before most of us are gone. But I won't try to stop you going, if that is what you have decided to do.

I wish you the best in whatever you do,
-Barid

You will be missed.

You and Trojie were the reason I got into the PPC in the first place. I'd noticed when you left. I'd been checking Trojie's Livejournal every day, hoping to find another mission there. I had been hoping that it was just school problems, or a hard time at work, or something else temporary. Occasionally, if I had forgotten to take my meds that day, I would worry that there had been a traffic accident or something equally scary. I will not beg you not to go, because it would be rather juvenile and I know it wouldn't work anyway. However, I will tell you that I hope that you will return someday.

Once I get Permission, I'm putting Agents in the DBS.

As one of the newbies that is still in the process of licking boots, stuff like this worries me. I'm fairly sure the PPC exists not only because people are passionate about good writing on the internet, but also because it's... fun.

It depresses me just as much when someone ragequits a Massively Multiplayer Online game. Isn't this all being done for fun? Why get so angry about it?

I'm new, I do want to take down Mary Sues, and I can do it in a diverse way once I am able to get permission and stop licking boots. Or I think I will be able to. Stomping in here yelling that quality is at an all time suck and then putting the responsibility for bringing back quality as it pertains to one group of people on newbies like me... makes me nervous. Am I good enough to do that? I don't know.

It reminds me of the balancing struggles that lots of Massively Multiplayer Online games have about classes.

'My character class is weak and under-balanced and getting ignored. I hate the character class that is getting all of the attention. I am going to ragequit because of it, all the people who don't do what I do or see eye to eye need to get a life/grow up because MY FACTION IS RIGHT.'

I don't know who's right here. And really, as someone new here who has no idea what this debacle is about...

... It depresses me. I quit World of Warcraft and came to the PPC to get away from that kind of stuff. I don't want to see it here...

I only read your LoTR and Harry Potter missions, as those are the only fandoms you did which I'm familiar with, but I do miss your stuff. Still, if you wanna leave, that's your choice.

I feel awful, now. I know you said not to, but really, with a farewell message like that it's hard to ignore a sense of guilt that we haven't put enough effort into recognising the status of the DBS. Even without the work of yourself and Trojie, the Department of Bad Slash is one of the oldest Departments, and you two made your mark on it like nobody else.

I love your work, and I held out hope for more missions in the miniature soap opera that is your spin-off, and I'll hold out hope that you'll come back some day. Until then, good luck, and you will be missed.

I enjoyed them all greatly. They are why I decided to write my agents in the All-Purpose department instead of DMS, so I could take on sues, bad slash, bad het and crossovers.

Anyway, I am sad that you're gone. Farewell to you, wherever you may go.