Subject: Point, but...
Author:
Posted on: 2010-08-12 20:19:00 UTC
I was mostly thinking that many of them are carbon copies of Liv-Tyler-as-Arwen, so she'd inherently look right. And she'd be Arwen as well in this case, of course.
. . . who would play your agents? Would they (or the movie in general) fall victim to cliche, or could it rise above? What actress would you like to see cast as a Mary Sue, or would the Sues have to be entirely CGI-generated? Can even CGI create urple? Discuss.
Here's a little something to kick off the discussion. I have a sinking feeling that, however well-made (or not) the movie was, Agent Suicide would be played by the Rock. Is this a good thing? A bad thing? I don't know. But lack of detail makes PPC-era Suicide default to Bishonen Standard, and we already know the Rock can play long-haired aggressive ancient-world guys.
Just so long as it's not Robert Pattinson.
How would we go about distinguishing possessed canons from look alike replacements? And what kind of rating would this have? Would it have to be restricted to the non-NSFW, non-NC-17 targets? Would it be only Sues?
... to limit it to Sues when Bad Slash is such an integral part of the PPC. Probably we'd want a fairly low rating, so it couldn't be explicit Bad Slash, but it couldn't be explicit Sues either, and the less explicit ones are funnier, I think.
hS
Look Alikes seem like bad copies, with fake glasses and wrong clothes, and bad wigs, etc.
It's rated ARGH for bad fanfiction.
My agents (if they are granted permission) should both be played by myself. I think I can pull off 6'7" northern English male and 4'10" London english female. Well it would make a good talking point anyway.
Given the sheer mind-blowing scale of the PPC (does anyone have any idea about the total wordcount of all PPC-related materials to date?), I'd say we're looking at a very long-running TV show here, not a movie. It'd also fit the episodic format better, don't you think? (With the obvious exception of the Emergencies, which would be long-running arcs or season finales). And there's a mind-blowing number of actresses who could be Sues. However, does anyone else think that some Sues at least might be better played by really good actresses, sort of like the best tone-deaf singers are played by people who can actually sing so that they can screw up properly?
It really is hard to screw-up on purpose. Reference the Fanfic land episode. It is hard to think like that purposefully.
I also think CGI would be best for the PPC.
Part of the humor for me comes from the fact that for us, as readers, these stories are very clearly framed. We make our agents miserable on a regular basis. How would we get across the idea that even thought the agents take themselves very seriously that the watchers should not take the whole very seriously--especially in a visual format where it is easier for the casual viewer to get attached to the characters and really into the world?
I think the sheer absurdity of the situations, plus things like framing the shots and the nature of the special effects and the background music and so forth, might make it clear that things weren't serious. Sort of like, if there are any other Glee viewers here, you can pretty much always tell what moments are dramatic and what are comedic - the same signals for comedy would work in the PPC.
Also, I'm not sure there's anything wrong with getting attached to the characters and world. I'm kind of fond of a lot of agents, not just mine but other peoples'.
I don't watch Glee regularly, but that's true. The easiest way to make it clear whether a moment is comedy or not without changing anything in-universe is the soundtrack. One of the things I love about bad movies (I'm thinking Manos: The Hands of Fate) is situationally-inappropriate music — I happen to think Manos has a nice-sounding soundtrack, but it's definitely not the right soundtrack for Manos.
Animation or CG would be good.
Who would play a Sue... that's a tough on-- oh, wait, Lindsay Lohan. Justin Bieber would make a great Stu. He practically is one already.
As for my agents... I dunno, since most of my agents are in their teens it kind of makes things difficult.
...Or made with CGI a la Avatar (only much better plotted, of course). That way, the Agents can be tailored to whatever standards we (alright, the directors) will. But, if I had to choosea person, it would probably be a young Edward Norton to play Julius, and...well, I can't think of a good actress for Leila off the top of my head and I just did a Google image search for 'actress' and the results are 90% NSFW.
See, this is why I say CGI is the way to go.
Animation would definitely be the way to go for the reason you mentioned. Character design could be more strictly controled than if you had a specfic actor playing the role.
Who could I see playing my characters? Following the animation road (so considering the actor's voices only) I'd go with Tara Strong as Laura, Paul Rudd as Danny, and Emily Osment as Rachel. Not sure who'd do for Xericka or Gremlin.
There's way too much weird stuff in the PPC. Minis would have to be CGI, as well as heavy effects for portalling, Sue-spectrum colors, and stuff like Urple Clouds, Logic Loopholes, ANSpace, etc.
Also, the Agents themselves. Two of my conceptual Agents would have to be entirely CGI'd--an Eagle á la Tolkien, and a Siu Riu from Temeraire. Of my other two, my Tayledras' bondbird would need effects, and the other, from Garth Nix, has a pair of wings (magical constructs) that he wears whenever it's not absolutely necessary for him to remove them. They're not the only odd Agents...
Casting my vote for pure-CGI, in case I somehow failed to make that clear.
Which I like, because now I have a couple ideas. Maryke Hendrikse or Lisa Ann Beley (Revy and Eda in Black Lagoon , respectively) would both make excellent Kimmie VAs, and Caitlin Glass (Haruhi of Ouran fame, and also apparently Winry Rockbell) would be a great Agent Caitlyn*.
*Yes, name retconned.
But it's about fanfiction, so we'd have copyright trouble if we made a real movie out of it, right? Or would it be different because it's all about the fan treatment of something published?
I kind of think that there should be something different, unrealistic, about the suefic to represent its disconnect from reality. But that would have to compare to something. HQ isn't exactly in touch with reality, either, though I guess an RC would look lived-in and messy. We'd also have to represent the strange things that happen when a scene is described wrong. I think there would be an good contrast if the agents and people not directly connected to the Sue, or a canon when the agents talk to them privately, could be shown as more real than the Sue and her immediate surroundings.
A glowing hot pink with a little bit of purple in it should work well enough as urple.
What would the Words look like?
(not a lawyer)
Given that, as you say, it's about the fan treatment of published work, it might fall under a fair use clause, but we'd probably need permission from the copyright owners of all the canons involved, as we are using their things.
As for distinguishing the Suefic from reality, perhaps we could have a slight gaussian blur over everything in the Suefic apart from the agents? That might get hard on the eyes after a while, though, since it would mean that almost everything on the screen would look slightly out of focus all the time the agents were on missions.
Then we could have some fun with textures and quality. I always pictured Suefics as sort of like those awful Poser fanarts--maybe technically detailed, but lifeless, hollow-eyed, and doll-like. Putting a real actor (or at least a very well-done CGI motion-capture of a real actor) alongside one of these monstrosities would hit the Uncanny Valley hard. Provided it's lampshaded by the agents or something, so the audience knows it's intentionally bad.
It would have to be fairly obviously lampshaded, though, especially if we're going to go for an episodic format, so there might be new viewers for every episode. It would be fairly easy to just have a throwaway line like "Oh, this always hurts my eyes" or something, though.
It would have to be fairly obviously lampshaded, though, especially if we're going to go for an episodic format, so there might be new viewers for every episode. It would be fairly easy to just have a throwaway line like "Oh, this always hurts my eyes" or something, though.
...suspended in air. But knowing Hollywood, they'd probably be blue and script, and probably glow as well.
Actually, that sounds really Sue-ish. Maybe...maybe Words from canon writing and goodfic looks like what I first described, and Suefic Words look like the second? Hmm...
Ah, I'm rambling. Never mind.
Might look something like the symbols-in-the-mist from Assassin's Creed- but in reverse: normally you see the world, but if you concentrate you see a grey nondescript mist with the words scrolling around.
Fear of being a Sue stops creativity. Fear of being a Sue also stops Suethors. Two-way deal.
I'd probably choose Brandon Routh as Ken. That's not to say all Kryptonians should look like Superman; it's saying that author of the Suefic Ken came from basically envisioned him as Superman with slightly different hair and eyes. Poor thing.
Grace would be Mia Wasikowska. She nailed the "dreamy blonde with untameable hair with a limited range of expression" thing in Alice in Wonderland.
I go with the general consensus that Sues should either be animated or played by Megan Fox. Angelina Jolie would probably do well as a Sue, too, as would Britney Spears...if someone could only convince her that she can't sing worth a darn.
I suppose the obvious choice for Nume is Zachary Quinto. He's the right age, but they'd have to make him look more haggard. He's a bit on the pretty side. Or maybe Thomas Gibson (Hotch on "Criminal Minds").
Possibly Matthew Gray Gubler (Spencer Reid on "Criminal Minds"--funny how that works) for Ilraen. He has the right amount of innocent geekiness (though a total madman, if you visit his website. Wow). Neil Patrick Harris might do it, too.
Jenni looks like Julia Roberts, but she's too old now. Any suggestions?
Gerard Butler would have to play Derik. No getting around that one. Fortunately, he probably wouldn't be required to sing. However, he does well as a sword- (or sledgehammer-) toting action hero.
No idea whatsoever for Earwig. Possibly a child actor with greater than average maturity? Thoughts?
Also, Barid and I have cast Liam Neeson as the Sunflower Official, Patrick Stewart as the Marquis de Sod, and Judi Dench as the Sub Rosa. We're not sure what to do with Morgan Freeman, but he needs to be there somewhere. Maybe Captain Dandy?
~Neshomeh
I thought hS did an excellent job at the role.
... learn to put on a subtle Welsh accent as well? I mean, he already does English and Scottish, what more do you want?
On the other hand: I endorse this wholeheartedly. But who gets to play his various women? :P
(Also also: Ehehehehe)
hS
...but I'm thinking Lady Gaga as many of the Sues.
Various Dalek voice actors as Omicron, Charlie, and Fearn. John Leeson as K-9, of course.
Dustin's wings would probably be CGI. I'm not sure who would play him, Five, Tadkeeta I, Tadkeeta II, Tawaki I, Tawaki II, Tawaki III, Chrysocome, Del, or Madison. Any suggestions?
... I might have nightmares about that.
It's a pretty good idea, but I'm seeing her in that outfit she wears at the beginning of the Poker Face video, making out with Legolas.
...But if she's playing a 'Sue, maybe that's a good thing?
Given the way he interacts with the twilight fantards, I think he'd enjoy playing an agent.
Meanwhile one of the sues could be played by Megan Fox with the help of CGI (like her role in Transformers). There's probably a few other no-effort 'actresses' that could play other sues.
Well, no Robert Pattinson as Suicide. I was having nightmares of "Hollywood heartthrob" getting cast in a role that's totally inappropriate for him, just because it would bring in the fangirls. But you've got a good point--I do think he would enjoy being an agent, and it wouldn't surprise me if there was a place for him.
If there is ever an ESAS movie, I think it would go something like this:
Logan: Ryan Reynolds. He has the try-hard, slightly-annoying flippant humour requirement down-pat, and even looks vaguely like him. Unfortunately, with Ryan Reynolds involved, I think cliche is unavoidable. Runner-up, Marshall Allman (who actually looks quite a lot like Logan).
Kern: Harder to cast. I think Paul Bettany is the closest match (but not particularly close). Hollywood doesn't have many blond 30-something actors, it seems. Or at least ones that could pass for Jedi. (Neil Patrick Harris as a Jedi? Awesome, but unlikely)
Iodin: Kate Beckinsale. If she can handle glowing blue vampire eyes, glowing red Chiss eyes (and blue skin) should be no problem.
Aegis: Katie Holmes (but she'd need to grow her hair long again)
Sues: I think rotoscoped Beowulf-3D kind of thing. I think Sues need to have something CGI about them (even if it's CGI real actresses) so that they are in the "uncanny valley". Megan Fox comes to mind as a possible Sue candidate.
Hmm, that would be an interesting movie. I think there might be some interesting performances from Kern and Iodin, but I fear that Logan and Aegis would bring the movie down somewhat. Ryan Reynolds and Katie Holmes do better in ironic roles, in my opinion.
My inclination is to say that Sues would have to be CGI-generated. At the least, they would have to be Serkis Folk of some sort, just because many Sues would look so utterly inhuman in reality, if the movie takes Sue descriptions literally, which I assume it would if it wanted to be a proper representation of the PPC. Perhaps the more normal-looking ones could just be played by a beautiful actress (I'm seeing Liv Tyler as fifty different extra daughters of Elrond), but having them as Serkis Folk would also make it possible to change their features enough that it was obvious that they were different characters (or as different as Sues get), and the PPC wasn't just fighting a collection of five women who won't stay dead despite having been chopped up into pieces and eaten/burned/drowned/etc.
I also think that the work of the assasins would probably end up getting toned down a lot if the film wasn't going to be rated through the roof, just because our good guys go around killing people for existing. I know and you know there's more to it than that, but if it's going to be aimed at people who don't know the PPC, that's what they'll see. Still, since there's no way any film would be able to show every single mission ever, they could end up picking the ones where the Sue's death was most obviously totally justified because she'd performed some positively evil act. Mind you, this could probably be managed by showing the Sue-influence like demonic posession - make more use of the author-wraiths, perhaps? - to make it really obvious who the villain is and who the noble warriors standing up for all that's good without thanks or recognition are :P
Well, that was sufficiently rambling.
-is awesome, so I dunno if it would be good to plop her in as the elrondsdaughter role.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't good actresses generally also good at hamming it up beyond all logic? Plus, remember, she'd be playing and differentiating 50+ similar but not identical characters in one movie (or TV show), which would actually be a chance to show off some serious acting chops.
You're all right. I just like Liv Tyler. She was excellent as Arwen. Who could be Luthien, by the way?
I was mostly thinking that many of them are carbon copies of Liv-Tyler-as-Arwen, so she'd inherently look right. And she'd be Arwen as well in this case, of course.
we did try to make a movie a couple of years back, or at least start planning for it; it was to be based on the 2008 Macrovirus and Mary-Sue Invasions. We were going to use drawn animations, and various PPCers were going to voice the characters.
Trojie and I were sort of masterminding it all, but Real Life intervened; we both got distracted and busy, and people had to drop out. We still have the notes and plans somewhere, but the movie itself is on hold indefinitely.