Subject: Re: This is an extremely long rant.
Author:
Posted on: 2010-07-02 15:55:00 UTC
http://www.critters.org/whathow.ht
That is a really good resource for tips on how to say things in reviews so that there is a good chance that the writer will actually listen.
Wow, did I just get scolded... Now, I know you're likely to be on my side, but I need to hear someone, anyone, else's opinion on this.
I've been reading a humorous story about what was really going on during the movies, including an OOC Vader and reasons for the stormtroopers to be bad shots. I was my usual self in reviews -- it made me laugh enough that I was pretty positive in the beginning, except one chapter that disappointed me, and I was fairly positive but said what bothered me. I usually comment on blatant or amusing spelling/grammar errors/typos and general issues I think should be better. The author asked me to be less picky because it was just for fun. Of course, with all the stories I'm reading and my habits, I didn't always remember this.
The last chapter, I commented on the fact that he said "lamented sadly" which I found to be a perfect example of redundancy and overuse of adverbs. I also complained about people who describe Yoda as a "troll" (not that kind), not saying that it just plain annoys me (bad reasoning) but giving the reason that fairy tales and people's judgements of weirdness aren't the same in space. I also mentioned something I was confused about and said something minor that I liked. He *really* scolded me for being overly negative.
I answered, feeling embarrassed but trying to be cheerful. I said I got the message, it's hard to remember who wants, who doesn't mention, and who doesn't want criticism. I didn't say it, but some people have told me my reviews are their favorite, and he's the only one who's said he doesn't want this. I said I know I'm too negative and it's a problem. I said I wouldn't apologize about the troll thing because it really bothers me. I also said that I obviously think it was good or I wouldn't be reading it, I think it's ingenious, and I was considering sending it to you guys as an example of a good OOC. I expected this to be the end of it unless I forgot again.
But he was apparently really mad at me. He told me that I should be telling him the nice things and lectured me for FOUR PARAGRAPHS about being a good person. He said that I apparently have bad reading comprehension because I'm confused about some things (I've only mentioned this twice and said I was distracted while reading it for one of those times) and he's surprised that someone so nitpicky would. He told me to go work on my own writing, kindness, and comprehension. He also said I nitpicked for thirteen chapters. I just counted, and I left nine reviews, by my count three positive, four mixed, and two negative, including three nitpicky things, one of which wasn't directed at him but the fandom. Finally, in the kindest and politest way possible, he asked me to go away.
My mouth dropped open while I was reading this; I've never had anyone say anything like that before. Now, you have to know that I have mild social phobia, and even though I take criticism about my stories because my writing matters that much to me, I can't stand personal criticism that I can't brush off as a flame. It's proof that I've improved that I don't feel like deleting everything I've put on the internet and crawling into a hole anymore, but it still physically hurts.
I also found that he had commented on his story basically making fun of me. The way he'd written it, I thought, "Oh, he's had a few like this, that's why he's annoyed," but there was no more criticism at all on the page of the most recent reviews.
So now I'm thinking, he gets tons of reviews (it really is tons for a first story) and all but mine are positive, but he can't stand that? A lot more sensitive than me. He's telling *me* to be less serious but he makes such a big thing about it? Or was I really that wrong not to have stopped criticizing after he asked me to? And should I answer him or will this just cause a big argument?
I think he was definitely overreacting and (pardon my French) being an asshole, although I'd have to see the exact conversation. Not that I think you're lying, but paraphrasing does have a tendency to
I'd say ignore him. Some people are like that, and you're going to run into people who counter-flame for no good reason, but it's best not to take it too personally. There are plenty of nice, reasonable people on the Internet, too (Just look at this board!), and people like this guy are a minority. Sometimes you can reason with them, but I don't think it'll work with this one.
That being said, I would point out that if he only wants to be told the nice things, he's never going to improve. Self-criticism is a notoriously shoddy method of editing, and while flaming is also bad, a healthy dose of con-crit is wonderful for a writer's style.
I think the best thing to do is just stop communicating with this individual. S/he obviously doesn't want any help with their writing, so leave them to it. And as you said, they might even be going through a bad time, or something, so there's nothing to be gained from pressing the issue, and things could get worse easily. So I say, just drop it.
On the subject of social phobias, it took me an AMAZINGLY long time in grade school to understand that there are people out there who will be rude to me for no apparent reason. The best way to cope with it is just roll with the hits when you have to, and surround yourself with friendly people when you can...but maybe don't become quite so much of a homebody as I have. That shit ain't healthy.
http://www.critters.org/whathow.ht
That is a really good resource for tips on how to say things in reviews so that there is a good chance that the writer will actually listen.
That is really good. Useful for anyone as picky as we are.
Boy, am I ever glad I responded to him. He was being extremely oversensitive, but he admitted it, apologized, and explained where he was coming from. I understand, and we both feel much better now.
Of course, this was someone who was acting relatively rationally, which is not so common online. I'm really sorry I posted all this, but I had to get it out, and your responses do help me to know what to do next time something like this comes up. I'm sure it will come up again with someone less rational, and I'll remember your comments and advice about reviews.
Seems I shouldn't have made that other reply down there.
I'm glad it's been resolved without any hard feelings. Thank goodness there's one more semi-sane person on the internet...
I posted it after you did. It goes in reverse order of what you'd think.
(Isn't that a neat phrase? I picked it up recently from... Trojie, I think. Never heard it before. Better than "drama queen", certainly. Now on to my opinion...)
I say just drop the matter. Like Neshomeh says, some of the things you wrote could come off as challenging or superior, though this author would have to be either pretty short-tempered or young not to be able to handle that. There's no way to know - maybe he's a drama llama and maybe he was just having a bad day. In either case, it's just not important enough to trouble yourself with.
If you really want to send something, a simple response saying "I see. I will stop reviewing now." is probably the only vaguely safe thing. If he can't take criticism, that's not your problem - leaving reviews is a favour you were doing. So just stop. Remember, you'll never please everyone. I've been in exactly the same situation several times, and the only thing to do is walk away.
Also, take care not to be a dramam llama yourself. It's just a review. I wouldn't worry. :)
What I did was respond explaining stuff. I have decided that, whatever he says now, I will drop it. (Neither of us has time for this; I just won't review again.) Well, he just answered, and I'm afraid to look and see if he sent me another long message. Still, if he did, I will drop it...
Trying to explain things is probably a bad move - if there are any long messages coming through now, I'll bet that he's going hyper-defensive and there's nothing you can do. Regardless of what he sends, I suggest you just don't answer.
I'd say if he's going off about you not being a good person than he's probably just butthurt. I'd say ignore him.
I don't doubt you, but seeing what you wrote might help me understand how another person might interpret it.
That said, if this is on ff.net, it sounds like this guy didn't read the posting guidelines. I'm pretty sure it explicitly says "not all reviews have to be purely good." 'Cause they don't. If he's not okay with that, he shouldn't be posting. There's certainly no call for anyone going around saying that people who give concrit are bad people; and I'm sorry, but if a reader is honestly confused about something even after trying to figure it out (which I assume you, as an astute reader, did), then it's the author's job to figure out what the problem is and fix it, not judge their reading comprehension. That's just insulting.
In closing, "just for fun" is not an excuse for carelessness. If your sloppy writing makes it hard for the reader to stay engaged, it's no longer fun for them. If you don't care about the readers, then write for the drawer.
~Neshomeh, who can't stand people whining about the concrit they should consider themselves lucky to get--it's not easy to find people who will do it!
I guess I was more nitpicky than I thought, but I now count one more as positive rather than mixed.
chapter 1
Nice! Poor guy, but great writing.
(Positive)
chapter 2
Oh, no, not an amnesiac. *headdesk* Ughhhhh!
Okay, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you've researched it and can make it plausible, but still...
And haven't you ever noticed that the great majority of characters in this galaxy don't have English names... probably because there is no English because there is no Earth?
(negative, possibly nitpicky)
chapter 4
Okay, this is REALLY interesting. And it explains a lot about the movies.
I can't see Darth Vader thinking "crap", though. "Shit", maybe. Maybe.
(Mixed, nitpicky)
chapter 5
I assume this isn't complete, because there's still the stormtrooper to deal with, right?
(totally neutral)
chapter 6
This is going to get confusing with all the doubles, but I can't wait to see what happens next!
(Positive, includes some hint of confusion)
chapter 7
Chains of clones... wow...
I think I know where Johnny Doe comes from now.
I pretty much love this story, now, all because of LTWTL. Awesome! And the WTF was perfectly placed.
(Positive, I'm not sure if me saying something positive about one word is nitpicky...)
chapter 9
Okay, to begin with, Leia doesn't really need a lie detector test, though she probably doesn't know this. She has some Force powers, so she has to be a good enough lie detector herself. But also, if someone's good enough to look completely genuine to a politician, chances are great that he's good enough to fool the lie detector, too. So... well, if I were her, I'd watch what I said around him.
I KNEW [SPOILER]! Yay!
R2 is AWESOME. I always loved him, and it's great to understand his thoughts. I wish nobody had ever come up with the idea of writing it "Artoo," though. Ridiculous. Especially when it's in narration, not dialogue. And I seem to be the only person in the world who feels this way. Ugh.
(mixed, nitpicky about the fandom)
chapter 10
I got confused about the time jump. That might be my fault, though; I'm distracted by a very bad internet connection.
So he's a natural pilot. We should have known. :D If Leia *really* likes him it could be because of genetic attraction - people are often attracted to close relatives they didn't grow up with. It's true.
(Positive except a bit of confusion)
chapter 13
“Lamented sadly”? A bit redundant? The whole point of using a word like “lamented” is to avoid an adverb.
I don't like those descriptions of Yoda as a "troll". I mean, it's weird because we don't know what a troll is (there are so many opinions), and where do they get the word from? Are their fairy tales like ours? Wouldn't they have different ideas of strange-looking creatures?
So is this the real Yoda or not... I can't remember!
So that's why stormtroopers can't shoot straight.
(negative, and he went crazy)
The way things are worded might have come off as challenging, though. Phrasing as questions things that aren't actually inquiries is essentially saying "I question you! Defend yourself against my probing!" and so that's what people do.
Similarly, starting off sentences with things like "Okay, to begin with" basically translates to "Brace yourself," putting the reader on the defensive before they read what you really have to say. So, that could be contributing to his negative reaction.
However, he's still way out of line to insult you like he did. You never actually implied that his writing or intelligence was sub-par, and really you raise some interesting points about naming conventions and fairy tales. That's the sort of thing I enjoy thinking about when it comes to fantasy worlds... but that's me. I have an inquiring mind like that.
~Neshomeh
Thanks.
Because the more I think about it, the more I think he remembers a lot of things wrong and might feel better if he realized the truth. But I still don't want to extend an argument... ugh...
This place where the fanfic is, does it have private messages? If so, I suggest that you take him to the side and get things sorted out. Do not do it in the comment boxes, because that tends to make things rather sticky.
However, as I am not known for being a social person myself, wait for other people to respond before acting on this.