Subject: Thanks (nm)
Author:
Posted on: 2010-07-01 20:10:00 UTC
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Questions/comments by
on 2010-07-01 16:12:00 UTC
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Having all these Terry Pratchett inside jokes is forcing me to read the Discworld books. I'm grateful.
Okay, there seems to be two dimensions /worlds, planes, thingies, whatever/- Canon, and Our World /reality whatever/ and then there are several in-between: Fanfiction and the PPC.
The problem is the PPC: it's making my head hurt. Badly. So, the PPC doesn't have a distinct planet/thingy (which is fine), but the Agents seem to have selective awareness (which is not fine, kind of like selective amnesia, which never works nicely unless you're Robert Ludlum).
The PPC knows about the "Real World"/Earth and the "Fanfiction world(s)" and "Canon". However, the PPC has no idea where it came from: the agents just suddenly appear. Don't get me wrong, this stuff is great, but I dislike curiosity headaches. In PPC fanon/canon/whatever, is fanfiction a replacement of canon? Is canon entirely separate? I don't think so, seeing as there seems to be places where 'fics were "restored to canon". However, this means that that particular world-thingy cannot be THE canon, because there are other fics written about it. If all the fics were applied at one time, to one world- that would be BAD.
I kind of have a theory (and if you've read this far without becoming angry or giving up, good for you) and this is it: Canon is one dimension. A bit like quantum physics (which I barely know anything about), there is a time+place in every minute. Every time a 'fic gets written, the corresponding time+place in canon gets duplicated and that carbon copy of canon is what gets changed. When the 'fic is restored, that carbon copy is, too. I'd like to think somewhere out there, there is an WORLD OF ORIGINAL CANON that has never been touched by anybody or anything or whatever. It just is. However-
Wait, OFUM is in the same dimension as PPC-
Brain is beginning to blow up with possibilities. Will stop now.
Okay, could you have PPC agents that wrote fanfiction? Could you have PPC agents that reviewed fanfiction? Other than OFUM and the PPC, are there other realms inbetween fanfiction and 'Real World'/Earth? Plus, are fanfictions of, say, an American girl named Judy falling into Middle-Earth fanfictions of Real World/America/Earth? Because no such Judy certainly ever existed in 'Real World'. That would put Real World/Earth and Canon into the same area, like a crossover. And-
*We're sorry, you just witnessed a •first thoughts only• brain attempt to think •second thoughts• and disintegrate into a puddle of confusion. That's too bad, it could have actually done something useful instead of trail in little circles and die.*
BLEEP
•first thoughts only•
I think trying to think of insults in Vulcan is fun, don't you?
Check out these ones: http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=11028572
A few of the really good ones are:
"In this exchange of insults I am analogous to an elastomer originally derived from a colloidal suspension found in the sap of the Earth plant Hevea brasiliensis, whereas you, by contrast, are analogous to a compound with marked adhesive qualities--which is to say, the charges you level against me are not only baseless but ironically enough actually apply to yourself. "
"Your reply of, "I think not," accurately describes your mental functioning, albeit in a somewhat antiquated manner of speaking. "
Betazoid: I sense, Sir, that you are intoxicated.
Vulcan: Affirmative, and you are extremely unattractive. In twelve hours, my chemical imbalance shall be rectified. You physical imbalance, however, shall not.
Winston Churchill! Hah!
Will I get kicked off for rambling? -
No penalty for rambling... by
on 2010-07-01 21:09:00 UTC
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Imagine, for an instant, that a storyline is just that - literally a line, stretching through some meta-space. It's been Published, which makes it extra shiny and special. That storyline is the Canon for that particular work - Lord of the Rings has a Canon (two, if you count the movies), MIB has a Canon, and so on.
Immediately surrounding Canon is a tight weave of well-written fanfic storylines. It's like a rope - all nicely aligned, woven together, and although parallel threads don't always agree, the whole thing holds together nicely. This is good fanfic. Each fanfic takes a little bit of strength from the main Canon, but because it weaves right back in, the net effect is to make the whole thing stronger.
Surrounding that is the whole tangled mess of badfic, which makes our nice, neatly woven rope of fandom look like a messy yarn-ball. It's ugly, it's messy, and as each fic still takes strength from the Canon, it weakens the entire assemblage. The job of the PPC is to trim out those tangles and keep the rope of canon something resembling coherent and linear.
That's how I see it, anyways. Your perceptions may vary.
Now, World One is yet another Canon in that meta-space. It isn't our Earth, it's a fictional translation thereof. This is where it starts to get a bit mind-bending, as World One, along with all other fiction set in the "real world" (to a given limit of "real") is also fanfiction, looping around the concept of the Real World (the actual, nonfictional space we inhabit).
Agents are usually Dangerously Genre Savvy, to borrow the term. Many of them break the fourth wall to some degree or another - the PPC is metafiction, so a little bit of recursive fun is always possible. -
Breaking fourth wall=fun, but confuzzling sometimes (nm) by
on 2010-07-04 01:10:00 UTC
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You remind me of me. by
on 2010-07-01 20:20:00 UTC
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Because I asked similar questions early on... And no, you won't be kicked off for rambling. I'd know, if it could happen it would have already happened to me several times.
As for your questions, I don't see a problem with agents being aware that they're just words, or that someone's writing each word of their fate. Despite sounding pretty dark, I don't mean that everyone's hopelessly controlled or something similarly grim. I like to imagine it as more of a less parasitic relationship between the author and their characters/agents, with the words merely being a set of instructions for them as free-willed beings to follow, rather than complete and total control (which is what badfic does for the most part, in my opinion). The two can overlap sometimes, but that doesn't happen very often.
Second one. I think of the bad fanfiction being more like an infection or parasite of sorts, appearing at first in the general area it began, then spreading further and further until the original continuum is entirely replaced or damaged beyond repair. Fortunately, this is quite slow, and the continuum has natural defenses to deal with some of the badfic, so agents only need to destroy the major source of disruption, then the natural order restores itself for the most part. This means some just mediocre 'fic isn't going to cause any real damage.
These match up with one particular perception/theory of the PPCverse that's in my head. It's pretty detailed, so I won't post the entire thing here and now.
...Great, now you've got me rambling... -
Thanks. See, but the problem is... by
on 2010-07-04 01:07:00 UTC
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If PPC agents can write, and review, and all that, what happens to the continuua if a PPC Agent writes a PPC fanfiction?! Ack!
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PPC multiverse theory by
on 2010-07-01 18:10:00 UTC
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The PPC is itself a continuum. Some agents are aware that they have writers. For example:
July's agent of the same name discovers the Internet and (briefly) her Author:
Recursive Behavior
Also, part of the job of the DIO is to assassinate Mary Sues that have infiltrated the PPC. Sure, some of those are just Sued PPC agents who've been exposed to a little too much glitter and been "assimilated"; but some of them are PPC agents written by PPC badfic writers. Jaycacia Thornbyrd is one famous example; you might also check the DIO web page; there are a couple of missions there. (Both things are linked on the wiki.) Note that the DIO neuralyzes regular PPC agents who come in contact with its agents; the PPC in general doesn't know of their existence.
So, basically, the PPC is a continuum like any other, a Word World connected by plot holes to all the other continua (except quarantined continua, ones where the author has forbidden fanfic). I've seen multiple instances of agents able to see their own Words, such as when an agent gets annoyed and speaks in allcaps and someone else tells them to stop speaking in allcaps. No-Drool vidoes got the nickname of "ellipsis debriefings" in one fic, in which an agent was summoned for "a ...debriefing." Similar things happen all the time.
So it's safe to say that particularly observant PPC agents do know they are fictional characters, and a few have even speculated about their Authors; but in the world of the PPC, fictional characters are real (that is, sentient, if they're written well enough). World One is special because it has such a high plot hole density. We don't know what, but plot holes tend to be instrumental in the creation of worlds (the Cascade, which created HQ, was a plot-hole-driven event). World One residents, if they have the ability, can become Authors, and mentally connect to different continua, either an established one or an undiscovered one. Whether they create new continua or just discover them is unknown (I tend to think they discover continua that exist already, in a multiverse where literally everything that could ever happen, does happen.)
To think about how visiting fics works, you have to think in more than three dimensions. Every canon is a continuum worlds, with not just the actual canon that does happen, but AUs that could have happened. A Mary Sue creates natural, uncontrolled plot holes, dragging canon out of shape and into dangerously improbable configurations; PPC agents create controlled plot holes that let them insert themselves into the fic in order to repair it. The main canon is the most probable arrangement; good AUs are the most probable of the alternate possibilities. A story is made of what does happen, and also of what could have happened. When uncontrolled plot holes damage a continuum, they connect extremely improbable possibilities to the main canon; and information can leak through them to damage the main canon. Eventually, left unchecked, the information becomes nonsense and meaningless, and loses its organization. In the end-stage, no usable information is left at all. Wild plot holes endanger the continuum because they damage the organization of the information that makes up the Word World.
If you need a 3d representation, think of a continuum as an infinite number of time-strings, stretching out into the distance. Each string is a world and all its events (at least four dimensions, possibly more in sci-fi continua). In the middle is the Main Canon, connected by goodfic and good AUs to the strings nearby, which are alternate possibilities, pulling (by way of information transfer, not physical force) on the Main Canon. These connections can't pull it far out of shape because they are so close to Canon; in fact, they strengthen the canon the way a rope of ten strands is stronger than a rope of one strand. The problem comes when a Suethor connects an extremely far-flung world to Main Canon. A string very far away from the main canon will pull it out of shape much further than one that is close; and because they are so far away, cannot strengthen the main canon; in fact, it pulls the main canon away from the goodfic and good AUs that give it some of its strength. This connection is the Mary Sue, the Author-wraith, or some rarer manifestation of natural plot-hole formation. Sever it, and the main canon springs back into the middle, where it should be. Let it be, and the nonsense from the least probable reaches of the continuum begins to destroy the order of the world.
When PPC agents visit a fic, they aren't, technically, visiting Main Canon. They're visiting a stretched version in which the Mary Sue exists. Even when they remove the Sue and canon returns to near-normal, they aren't, technically, visiting Main Canon, because Main Canon doesn't have PPC agents in it. Only when they leave to return to HQ does the Canon completely return to normal--though, because PPC agents represent goodfic, their presence wouldn't damage Main Canon any more than normal goodfic does even if they chose to stay.
Because every badfic stretches the Main Continuum in a slightly different direction, PPC agents don't tend to meet each other, as they are in different subcontinua. The one exception is a Ficverse Fusion event (has a wiki article; has only been observed once or possibly twice if the Les Miserables Songfic Crisis event was an example), in which very similar words cause two alternate sub-continua to merge.
Yes. PPC agents--especially those who drop through plot holes from World One--can write, read, and review fanfiction. There are actually some PPC agents who used to write badfic and have had to kill their own work.
Most PPC agents join the PPC after falling through a plot hole to the PPC; but quite a few are brought through plot holes by agents in the field. The PPC itself is a continuum made of an infinite number of sub-continua.
Brain hurting yet? Good. :) -
Thank you! by
on 2010-07-01 19:36:00 UTC
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No, my brain is better than ever- that helps, in a way. Does this mean that PPC agents CAN write fanfiction, though? And review fanfiction? I have an idea.
Anyhow, that was really lovely, it helped, thank you! -
Yes, PPC agents can write fanfiction. by
on 2010-07-01 20:07:00 UTC
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I think there are a few who actually have, and as to reviewing, I know for a fact that in TOS Jay flamed a badfic. I forget which one, though...
I like your theory, although it made my head hurt.
OFUs reside in certain canons, but on an offshoot branch--it would be bad to have all those minis running around canon. -
Most don't have the time, though. by
on 2010-07-02 01:09:00 UTC
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Remember, the Flowers are always running us off our feet with new missions. Also, I imagine many agents are so sick and tired of any alterations to their beloved continua that they don't want to try. Call it Fandom-Weariness.
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Thanks (nm) by
on 2010-07-01 20:10:00 UTC
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Has anyone tried to ? by
on 2010-07-01 16:21:00 UTC
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Has anyone tried to write a guide to writing for a specific canon? Like an encyclopedia or wiki, where there would be stuff on characters.
I.e., on an article about Legolas, it might say:
Legolas Thranduillion IS an elf. Greenleaf is NOT his last name. Thranduil is NOT an abusive father. Legolas' preferred weapons are knives and bow and arrows, he can be found in books X and Y and blah blah blah.
Because if no one has... it could be interesting -
It'd be interesting. by
on 2010-07-01 23:43:00 UTC
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The problem with statements like "Thranduil is NOT an abusive father" is that while it's generally assumed to be true, and most of the fans (note the distinction between fans and fangirls) prefer to think it's true, I don't believe it's specifically stated in canon. And the fangirls jump on it so they can write badslash h/c or SuexLegolas h/c.
Even if it *is* stated in that particular instance, the same applies for ninety percent of fanon backstories, especially the abusivetragicpast!backstories. Which, in my opinion, are almost all a load of crap unless there's actually textual evidence to back them up. -
sort of by
on 2010-07-01 18:45:00 UTC
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A lot of pages do include notes about charges particular to that continuum or character and frequent badfic manifestations. I'm a bit proud of the edit I did for Sherlock Holmes the other day. You can see on that page how it explains how the characters of Holmes are in the canon, some notes about charges, and the most frequent badfics.