About Go

Sue Check? by RoseV on 2010-04-27 04:33:00 UTC Reply

Hi! I'm more familiar with the PPC LOTR-side of things, but I was wondering if you could check some old fanfics I wrote for an anime. I have an OC in there. She's related to a canon character (but otherwise has no pairing with any of them), and is generally tolerated (if not loved) by the other canonicals.

Is she a Sue?

Her name is Lorelei "Rory" Mustang, niece of Roy Mustang from FMA. I've run her through the Mary Sue checklist, but I just want to make sure she's not being written as a Sue.

Her fics:
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/3092938/1/TheNiece - In which she is introduced.
<a href="http://www.fanfiction.net/s/3493713/1/SnowWhiteandTheEightDwarves">http://www.fanfiction.net/s/3493713/1/SnowWhiteandTheEight_Dwarves - Story within a story, and very much a shameless parody.

Thanks! Concrit will be appreciated (though I have to admit I may sniffle and cower on occasion).

Alright, so I'm reading The Eight dwarves right now... by DigitalSocrates on 2010-04-27 23:59:00 UTC Reply

I haven't gotten past the first chapter quite yet, but the biggest problem I'm seeing thus far has nothing to do with being a Sue and more to do with you can't decide who's perspective the story is from - Rory's or Havoc's.

It keeps swapping back and forth. We should only hear the thoughts and feelings of one of the characters in the narrative -

In the first paragraph:
"Aw shit, I knew I should have sprang for the sleeping pills." Rory Fox Mustang ruffled her dark hair for the nth time that day as she nodded her apology to Havoc

- it shows that Rory is our perspective. She's the first to talk, the first to be introduced. I also take it that all of the little aggravated comments are hers too:
"Who knew you still had to baby-sit fifteen-year-olds? Not possible!"

But in the rest of the story, we're constantly treated to Havoc being the active character. Havoc babysits Rory. Havoc is being inconvenienced. We get inside looks into how Havoc responds to comments.
"Havoc sighed. Did both Mustangs have to insult him?"

You need to choose one or the other to keep as the active character. We only hear their thoughts, and only get glimpses of their personality. Trying to do both only gets confusing.

*goes back to reading*
Just finished the Niece by DigitalSocrates on 2010-04-27 20:33:00 UTC Reply

Just finished The Niece - the real test for sueness will probably be in the second story, but a few comments before I move on:

1) The second sentence has a word mismatch. "And for the past week or saw, First Lieutenant Riza Hawkeye had not made a peep about it, not minding the Colonel's constant absences."

2) The writing is a bit clumsy all around but nothing particularly bad. You're probably aware of this as an older work.

3) The 'reveal' is a bit much. Hawkeye and Mustang wouldn't spend so much time revealing the facts to the group, particularly since they just admitted to stalking him for so long. They'd be indignant and probably wouldn't reveal much information past "this is the Colonel's Niece."

In particular, you shouldn't mention her parents' death in this story. It adds nothing to the narrative and seems out of place in the light-hearted comical tone. Save the backstory for later.

Otherwise, fun read. I particularly liked the shameless music suggestions. They really made the sleuthing scenes.

*goes on to read second fic*

Reworks by RoseV on 2010-04-28 02:20:00 UTC Reply

I'll probably rework The Niece 2 as it's actually an awful piece of garbage, not to mention about an embarrasssing subject, and written when I was extremely immature. With The Niece, I will follow your editing suggestions (when my lazy self can rouse my diligent writer self into reworking things). Rory won't really be making appearances in any more fanfiction, unless I need her as a plot device or a convenient low-level woobie.

As for SW8 (Snow White and the Eight Dwarves), I guess that I forgot early on that Rory was the writer of the story, and not me. For Roy's more *explosive* moments, I have to explain that most of this is first-Anime verse (not Manga, and not the new "Brotherhood" series). It deviates a lot from the manga canon, and so features a few episodes where Roy does "freak out" -- though I probably have to tone down the "freak" a lot.

To answer the "Go" question -- scenes from the original anime depict Breda and Falman (or Fuery) playing what appears to be Go. (Japanese chess with flat pieces wooden pieces? I'm not sure; most fanfic writers tend to interpret it as Go.) I agree, though, that chess is usually more FMA-related as there's this huge manga subplot with Roy considering his men chess-pieces in a game with the Fuhrer, and his "queen" being taken away.

My favorite chapter for SW8 (and the only decent one) has to be "A Brief Interlude" (so-far).

Thanks so much for the concrit! Bad writing is much easier to rework than a Sue.

About Go by DigitalSocrates on 2010-04-28 18:01:00 UTC Reply

What you describe (Japanese chess with flat wooden pieces) sounds more like Shogi http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shogi than Go http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go_%28game%29

I've only actually seen the first anime - and not all of it actually. I've seen over half the episodes, so I'm no expert. My comment about Mustang getting angry is not so much that he /never/ gets angry so much as that he doesn't fly off the handle for no reason. In his conversation with Hughes, I could see no reason that Mustang would be getting angry at Hughes.

Hughes sent his niece to be looked after by Mustang after her parents died - I should think Mustang would actually find this somewhat rehabilitating after killing Winry's parents. It just doesn't seem like something Roy would get so worked up about.

Good point. by RoseV on 2010-04-30 03:56:00 UTC Reply

Will change that in the rework. I guess I got infected by too many fanfics portraying Roy as more spitfire that I may have lost sight of canon. In hindsight, he's a cool customer mostly. *facepalms*

The primary reasons I have for Roy's hesitating to have Rory stay with him full-time are I didn't want Rory to appear too cuddly-close to Roy (preventing Sue-age), and I didn't want her too near Roy's brigade as the more pivotal events of the series approach (again, prevention of Sue-age). And, given his bachelor lifestyle, Roy would probably find caring for Rory awkward, even if having a ward would be rehabilitating.

Still...am going to completely rework SW8 when I have time. I cringe when I read it now. Thanks so much!

Good Luck with the rewrite! by DigitalSocrates on 2010-04-30 09:19:00 UTC Reply

I would agree that Roy would find caring for her awkward, and he may actually perceive that she would be better off on her own. I could see him being fairly cold to her - similar to how he treats Ed and Al in fact. Roy 'adopted' Ed and Al in much the same way he'd probably adopt Rory: keeping an eye on her while keeping his distance.

He'd probably offer the rare bit of advice, or send people to keep an eye on her. If Rory proves to be very competent (she should have some exceptional qualities to explain why she's in the military at age 15, or else simply make her older), then Roy probably won't spend much time worrying about her.

One more quibble - have you thought about changing her name so it's not just a one letter difference from Roy's name? It's extremely easy to confuse the two when quickly reading.

The R-name by RoseV on 2010-05-06 02:24:00 UTC Reply

She's in a military academy, so I guess being fifteen is okay. Technically she's going through high school-esque training right now, then she graduates from that at eighteen to full military training in the specialization of her choice (she's thinking medic).

As for "Rory", I can have some of the people call her "Lorelei" (technically her full name), but Rory Mustang kind of stuck as it was going to be part of a planned humorfic one-shot when Roy and Riza are taken to be her parents. Could probably change her backstory so that she's the daughter of a dead sister instead of a dead brother, which would make her Rory Mustang-Fox instead of Fox-Mustang.

Will probably start rewrites at the end of the month. This month I've got my hands full with work. :(
Thanks for all your help! :D