on batman (possibly slightly off topic)

Does this count as a badfic? by Italian for Grandma on 2010-04-23 23:30:00 UTC Reply

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/4918035/1/IHateEverythingAboutYou

The story is in the Comics!Batman continuum, pairing Batman with Harley Quinn. It left a sour taste in my mouth, but I thought I'd ask just in case my viewpoint is a little too conservative.

Am I overreacting to the...eh...elaborate lemon in the sixth chapter when I say that the circumstances of this fic are contrived? That the Joker hasn't taken any other love interests for the simple fact that no one else will tolerate him like Harley does? That Batman would not kidnap Harley or anyone under the pretense of providing "therapy" by way of "house arrest?" That Batman would be smart enough not to compromise his secret identity by starting a makeout session as Bruce Wayne, interrupting said makeout session to change to Batman, and then continuing said makeout session *with* *the* *same* *woman?*

*twitch*

on batman (possibly slightly off topic) by Nakkel on 2010-04-25 21:50:00 UTC Reply

I don't really think batman should ever be shown as actually caring about another human being because he only seems to even acknowledge someone's existence if they can be used as a tool to further his goals or as an enemy. True, sometimes his goals are to save people FROM villians, but that's just part of his moral obligation, it's like saving a herd of sheep for him. example:

Barbara Gordon:" I volunteered."
Dick Grayson: "You think you did. You don't know him like I do. He manipulates, pulls strings... anything to get what he wants. "

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Batman doesn't, wouldn't, care about what happens to his enemies after he catches them. It's OOC to assume otherwise, I think

Also, Scarecrow is awesome. Why is there not more stories about Scarecrow?

That was Dick in one of his whiny phases... by Tomato on 2010-04-27 03:15:00 UTC Reply

He goes through a lot of those. There are other times when Dick and Bruce are actually quite sweet together. And going into other Robins, Tim especially is devoted to Bruce. I mean, he alienated all his friends and went on an odyssey around the world because he thought there might be a chance Bruce was still alive.

Have you read Identity Crisis? A strong argument for Bruce's actually caring about the "Batfamily" could be formed solely from the way Bruce comforts Tim at the end of that story.
Robin is not exactly an unbiased source. by DigitalSocrates on 2010-04-26 18:22:00 UTC Reply

I haven't followed the comics that much, but I'm sure there's a long history between the two that soured the relationship.

You can be a manipulating asshole and still care about people.
Re: on batman by PoorCynic on 2010-04-26 18:16:00 UTC Reply

I'd have to disagree (about the Batman caring, not the Scarecrow being awesome), although I think it varies from writer to writer.

If Batman does not care what happens to those he captures, then why would he bother capturing them in the first place? Why wouldn't he just become the DC's version of the Punisher and off all of his foes? After all, his ultimate end goal is to ensure that what happened to him (his parents' deaths) does not happen to anyone else. It would be so much easier to do that if all the criminals are dead. Why bother being bound by a moral code if it stands in the way of your ultimate goal? He has the moral code because he cares, because he must care. Otherwise he's no better than the criminals he fights.

Besides, there are quite a few stories where Batman is shown to be sympathetic towards his rogues (again, varying from writer to writer and medium to medium). The BTAS episode 'Heart of Ice,' for example, has Batman react with horror to the apparent fate of Dr. Freeze's wife and later express his sympathy to the villain in person. One could argue that Batman exaggerated those emotions to try and manipulate Freeze, but I would disagree.
He makes a point of not killing them by (name here) on 2010-04-26 05:57:00 UTC Reply

Except on covers.
Scarecrow? Really? by Edward Wilder on 2010-04-26 01:54:00 UTC Reply

Can you imagine people writing slashfic about Scarecrow?

...

Oh, great, now I'm thinking about it! Curse you, Nakkel!

Can I claim this? by Italian for Grandma on 2010-04-24 16:29:00 UTC Reply

I know I don't have permission just yet, but could I claim this now and wait to write it until I do have permission?

Yes, go right ahead by Edward Wilder on 2010-04-24 19:12:00 UTC Reply

As far as I know, that's pretty standard procedure.

Okay, I claimed it. (nm) by Italian for Grandma on 2010-04-24 20:07:00 UTC Reply

Badfic... Yes! by PoorCynic on 2010-04-24 15:30:00 UTC Reply

First off, a minor note. This story appears to actually be from the DCAU!Batman continuum (the cartoon from the '90s) as indicated by a few off-hand references. It seems to be a tie-in to the events of the episode "Harley's Holiday," where Harley gives Batman a thank-you kiss at the very end.

After reading this, I'd say that while parts of it were enjoyable (I'm an incorrigible Harley Quinn fan) there were several issues that qualified it as badfic:

-- Batman is incredibly out of character. Letting one of his rogues into the Batcave, revealing his backstory if not his secret identity - not the actions we expect of the World's Greatest Detective. He's been turned into a lustful dope. Alfred even says as much in chapter 5: "I believe both your parents and I taught you to treat a lady better than that, sir. I do not believe that your actions were very becoming."

-- Technical issues. There are a few places where the tenses switch, especially on the first page. Also, 'growled' as an alternative word for 'said' appears more times than it should.

-- Harley is almost if not entirely (YMMV) a Replacement!Sue. The fic version has had a rotten life, but almost everyone mentioned in the story loves and respects her. While the actual Harley was sympathetic, she was still a psychopath. This one not so much.

-- The improbable biology of the lemon.

Minor Addendum by PoorCynic on 2010-04-24 16:00:00 UTC Reply

On further reading, I've decided that I don't like this one as much as I thought it did. Harley!Sue's accent is applied so thick that it becomes difficult to read at times. The crowning moment of failure is this joke from Batman. FROM BATMAN.

"For once the Harley's riding me."

*cue head exploding from shock and rage*

Yeah, that was my reaction. by Italian for Grandma on 2010-04-24 16:27:00 UTC Reply

I'm a major Harley fan too...and I'm rather fond of the Harley/Bats pairing, when it's done well. Hence how I found this. Gad.

Thank you for your help.

I think so by Somariel on 2010-04-24 13:41:00 UTC Reply

Given what you've said about what happens in the story, I'd certainly classify it as badfic.