Subject: Re: Agent? Yes? No?
Author:
Posted on: 2013-04-23 18:40:00 UTC
First off, torturing Sues is a no-go. And the way it's described, like that happens constantly, he sounds like he's a psychopath on or off duty. The pictures don't help with that.
Anyway... three things here.
First: The description of Agent Valon, in the style of the Wiki. Pastebin'd because I don't want to stretch this out.
http://pastebin.com/6ShW883n
Second, two pictures of the agent via Dream Avatar.
Off-duty/sane
On-duty/crazed
Opinions? Should I rewrite this guy?
EDIT: Huh, I didn't know that it automatically embedded images.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ouV0di1a__mTOV8jb7Nq0YiNQkoks96lt3oRsU4Wo7g/edit?usp=sharing
Behold Valon's updated bio. He's overall more level-headed now, his profile is more detailed, and he's kept his hat addiction.
Any thoughts?
Comments can be added to the doc itself.
Several people have mentioned that it's really too early for you to be having this discussion at all, one of them (hS) being a Permission Giver, who you ought to strive not to ignore in matters pertinent to eventual Permission. Well, this makes two of us saying please give it a rest. Willingness to improve is great, but there's no need to get a character nailed down right now, because we're not going to be ready to give you Permission for some time, regardless of what character(s) you use. More importantly, though, you're not doing yourself any favors by continuing to press an issue that you have been asked by multiple people to drop.
~Neshomeh
I'm sorry if this sounds discouraging or otherwise bad, but I'm not exactly the best at wording certain things...
There's a lot of ideas that could work here, but there's also a not of things that people generally do not want around here (torture and so on). You may want to polish things up and remove the things that go against how people see the setting.
I already edited Valon's bio, and I'm heeding the advice of the other Boarders and reading more missions.
I have read almost all of Laburnum's Redwall missions, TOS, most of THAT series, and the entirety of OFUM.
As a final thing from me, don't be afraid to ask questions to the rest of the community. They're surprisingly helpful.
That second paragraph, and the first sentence of the first, are completely gone. He is now overall more cool-headed, but also slightly irritable. Not a hair-trigger temper, but he can lose his patience.
Not sure what else to do, though.
You should probably wait a while before you decide to make a character, as I'm not sure you can save this character. However, don't let this put you off the whole idea.
There are still a few things I like about the character, even if the main basis isn't that good. For example, the hat collecting seems like the sort of thing a PPC agent would do, and the accordion playing could be used for the sort of humour we like, with your Agent driving his partner insane with his playing.
Anyway, while you might want to stop your ideas of making Agents until you get better versed in the world of the PPC, it's not to say that every idea of yours is bad. You just need to get a better feel of the universe you're writing for before you start thinking up the agents.Although, I'm not quite sure how much say I should have in this, seeing as I'm not exactly experienced in the Agent making.
Or at the very least tone it down, or give him a partner who has no truck with it to balance him out. There's a reason a character with that exact trait is on the Permission Self-Check in the "List what is wrong with this guy" category.
That trait would disrupt missions, usually, and when it doesn't, it would still be more problematic than it's worth to write about. I'm not sure if the following is "the whole point" of the LO system or not, but the Lust Object trait has always been to me more a reason to oppose a particular Sue or to make brief jokes in missions than a core component of a character's personality.
Oh, and changing the bio won't do a whole lot in terms of his individual personality. The bio reflects it, yes, but if you haven't changed how you think about him as a character, he's going to be the same. And again, I stress, work on a partner. Bouncing him off someone who shares similar goals, i.e., Sue-killing, but has a different way of looking at it can help round off the rough edges of both.
I'm going to repeat my recommendation to read around the PPC. The character doesn't just have minor flaws - the core of his characterisation does not mesh with the PPC. I say, stop thinking about making your own agents completely, and just enjoy reading other people's for now.
hS
Just thought I'd give you this handy dandy link spammage.
First off, the Wiki page for Permission. It can be pretty helpful in working some things out with Agents, as someone who has been working on agents for at least 3 months, on and off.
Secondly, the Permission Self-Check. I know it's on the Permission page, but I had a hard time finding it anyway. It's good for checking whether you're ready to ask for permission. This is probably because that's what it was made for.
Now, here's the link to a collection of missions, the Original Series and other tidbits. Reading always helps, and seeing other agents in missions is good for brainstorming ideas that work. And if you've read them, eh, no harm in re-reading.
Finally, a picture of a rabbit with a top hat. Because why not? And I know that sometimes people get upset at criticism, good or bad, so I felt a cute picture would be a nice idea.
Good luck in working out ideas for agents, and remember - have fun while you're doing it! All stress and no fun makes the PPC a boring place.
Having read this description and looked at the pictures, I'm not entirely sure you understand what the PPC is all about.
Torture, and 'taking his frustration out on them personally', is most emphatically not what we do. PPC stories are, er, funny: that's kind of the point. Valon isn't funny: he's scary. Yes, you've added some quirks, but you've added them to a violent psychopath who 'turns off his sense of empathy' and, for bonus points, 'spends a lot of time ogling female Agents and canonicals' - including when he's an empathyless torture-fiend. That is not someone I can see fitting into the PPC.
So: I'd like to recommend you read around the subject more. I note on your intro thread you say you've read Laburnum's missions: I'm aware that they make up a large chunk of our Redwall stuff, but they're really not representative of the PPC as a whole. I see you are (or were) also reading the Original Series, which is good - we try to model our agents off Jay and Acacia, with different characters but the same basic outlook of 'Doing this job, have to have a sense of humour, get angry sometimes but try to stay professional'.
So: read some more missions! Unfortunately I don't appear to share any fandoms with you - well, a couple, but I don't recall any missions set in them - but I can point you at the Killed Badfic list. To get a good feel for what the PPC's like, try avoiding the high-rated/NSFW stuff and reading some of the K+/T material.
For one specific (non-mission, but PPC)recommendation, the Irish Samurai recently posted an interlude to do with Abhorsen: The Mini-Mogget Adoption Agency. I think it gets over the feel of the PPC very well.
hS
One, torture is not allowed. Even for Sues. It's a bad idea. Killing them slowly, maybe, but nobody is supposed to torture. It ticks off the Flowers, because it's Black Cat methodology and also seriously not cool.
Two, you are way too new to start up Permission ideas. I realize this wasn't an official request, but keep it private until you've got more parts of the Agent finalized and the Board gets to know you.
Three, his personality traits seem contradictory. Psychopathic rage and cool tolerance of others, for example. I realize you're still hammering him out, but read the bio beforehand and make sure it looks consistent.
Without that, it's not that bad. The hat obsession could potentially lead to a few fun scenes, and the physical description seems all right. You could really enhance him by bringing along a partner who opposes him in terms of knowledge type and reactions to situations, especially since doing so would help justify the "knows about everything" bit if you give him, say, a very ditzy partner. The partner dynamic is why you see so many passionate/stoic pairs or rageful/joyful pairs. Odd couples are fun and help with characterization.
You've created about three threads in a row. That's a little much especially since your introduction post is still on the front page. That's also an indicator that it is a bit too early for you to be discussing Agents with the Board.
If you really need advice, I suggest asking someone via email or the IRC.
That being said, is it necessary to have two different personalities for an Agent dependant on what he's doing? Suggesting that an Agent is only sane off duty is underestimating HQ's ability to turn someone insane. And last time I checked, Sues also had shoddy split personalities like that.
Take a step back, relax, and just participate in the topics already on the Board. We're in no rush.
Main reason for the multiple threads: This place is actually pretty slow. I find things to post, but the rest of the place progresses so slowly that I almost have to make a new thread for the new idea, otherwise I'm just being a non sequitur.
Which isn't that unusual for me, but still.
re:Personality: I imagined him as being vaguely nutty (or at least keeping it down) off-duty, and just pulling out the stops where Sues are concerned.
If you've got a new idea, it's usually better to attach it to a tangentially related but existing thread than to start your own. In case you haven't noticed, the threads get bumped after a while, and nobody looks past the first two pages or so.
And yes, the Board moves slowly, but that's because not everyone involved can answer things all the time. IRL concerns and the like. We also tend to get sidetracked at little notice, which can lead to either fun times or the complete abandonment of the topic. Just roll with it for the first week or so, respond to things, get the dynamic, and such.
If you prefer faster-paced discussion, there are usually at least a few people on the IRC at any given time.
Again, the way the "nuttiness" was phrased in the description was contradictory to itself and needs work. People who can just switch personalities on and off when confronted with certain subjects usually have legitimate mental problems, and while that could be interesting if it's what you were going for, your responses tell me that it wasn't.
We like hijacking threads of similar topics to continue new discussions, and we're trying not to nudge good threads off the page, especially since the message board doesn't bring back a thread if someone has posted new things on it.
Once again, most of these questions can be answered by people in the IRC and by the Wiki.
I'll just give you the reigns for this topic, then. I don't want more repetition than is necessary.
First off, torturing Sues is a no-go. And the way it's described, like that happens constantly, he sounds like he's a psychopath on or off duty. The pictures don't help with that.
