Subject: Conceded.
Author:
Posted on: 2009-01-21 00:29:00 UTC
Whoops. My confidence in my speed-reading skills is dead. So it goes.
But my point is valid, neh? Minor magic tricks do not god-mode make.
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Disguises-shapeshifters by
on 2009-01-20 18:05:00 UTC
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If a disguise is used, do the Agents take on all the physical characteristics and abilities of the forms? I know dragons seem to work, but what about a shapeshifting species such as the Gurlanin? I had a rather creative death in mind for a Sue that would take advantage of the species' natural form...
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Gurlanin -
I've always thought it was rather more complete by
on 2009-01-23 07:35:00 UTC
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than some here seem to think. I refer you to the PPC Agents who had to permanently change into Elves, because a time distortion meant humans would have instantly died of old age.
I think the change is pretty complete.
One of my future plans kind of depends very, very much on this, so the fact that hS has already given the Jay and Acacia example helps a great deal. -
Re: I've always thought it was rather more complete by
on 2009-01-23 15:36:00 UTC
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You know, I was actually thinking about the PPC Agents in question...
Incidentally, how are normal Agents supposed to take care of Sues that are Jedi/god-mode without using diguises with such powers? -
By being creative. by
on 2009-01-23 18:59:00 UTC
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Remembering that missions are written to amuse, it's far more interesting to see a non-powered Agent have to come up with a trick to do the job, than for Jaycacia Thornbyrd to wave a hand and wipe everyone out. I direct you to the Audio / Visual Division for how to kill a 'Sue without even a /weapon/...
hS -
Personally by
on 2009-01-20 21:39:00 UTC
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I think a disguise generator generates a disguise, i.e. just the physical appearance of the agent changes. The agents do not become the species that they look like (unless they already are that species). Actually, a female agent disguising as a male of the same species will still not be able to find out what the big deal is about peeing standing up.
I like that limitation of the device. If the device could give the agent any power they'd like from the fandom they were in, the device might better be renamed the Mary Sue generator. As that is what Sues do: they take on the powers of the fandom they like, and then some.
Which is not to say that agents have not taken over some of the minor powers of their species of disguise. I once disguised my agents as fairies from Torchwood, wings included, with which they managed to fly. That is if your definition of flying is falling down and occasionally missing the ground. (so they got the power, but couldn't control it. Ah, conflict)
Anyway, I guess if an agent disguised as a shapeshifter they'd probably be changing appearance throughout the story. And knowing how PPC equipment works, they'd be changing appearance at random, and quite often at inconvenient times.
Would that work for your story? -
You have a point... by
on 2009-01-20 21:57:00 UTC
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about the potential for abuse. However, in TOS (http://oddlots.digitalspace.net/PPC/PPC_TOS/sisterhood.html), Jay and Acacia incarnate as Maiar and choose their forms, meaning that shapeshifting diguises are possible (although they don't seem to get the powers of the Maiar, which supports your theory).
A limited shapeshifting ability is interesting...I suppose it could be that, as the canon Gurlanin are very powerful shapeshifters, disguised Agents would be capable of fairly small changes mass or shape wise (Gurlanin->hummanoid) but would simply revert to a black puddle form if they tried too many changes in a period of time or tried to change into something very small or very large. That gives me an interesting idea...
The Agent tries shifting to a rancor to eat the Sue. It fails spectacularly, and the Agent instead collapses into a puddle of black goo. Cue Suvian laughter and the Agent then suffocating her instead. -
In fact, they do. by
on 2009-01-20 22:08:00 UTC
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Jay gets to do the bubble which arrows bounce off, if I remember correctly. Plus they could fly as dragons, and were impervious to arrows as Ents...
hS -
Plothole creation. by
on 2009-01-20 22:18:00 UTC
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In the end, it comes down to this question IC: do the Agents' actions create plotholes? If not, there's no reason for the Sues to mind. OOC, the question is whether that makes the Agents Suvian.
As for Jay, it was the Sue who raised the bubble. (I think.) As for the Ents, the bark that came with the disguise acted like armour, and the arrow was still there when she changed back...
The thing is, Gurlanins have two basic abilities: the ability to become invisible in the Force (at least to Padawans and Knights; I suspect not to God-mode Sues or Suvian Masters) and the ability to shape-shift. The former would be an inherent trait and would most likely work perfectly. The latter is the problem. -
Beg to differ. by
on 2009-01-20 23:20:00 UTC
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Once again on cue, Legolas turned up in a nearby tree. How he got there was left unsaid by the words.
"Frightening." Jay looked hopefully at Acacia. "Can I do the 'magical bubble that weapons bounce off of?' Please?"
"Sure," said Acacia in an "indulgent parent" tone.
"Legolas they are going to hurt me," Arond screamed.
He shot an arrow. It bounced.
"Hurrah," cried Jay, holding her staff aloft.
"Do you want Arond, or should I?" asked Acacia.
"I'm doing the bubble."
hS -
Conceded. by
on 2009-01-21 00:29:00 UTC
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Whoops. My confidence in my speed-reading skills is dead. So it goes.
But my point is valid, neh? Minor magic tricks do not god-mode make. -
My $0.02 by
on 2009-01-21 00:28:00 UTC
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The PPC's tools are really the only reason the majority of agents are able to accomplish their task at all, given that they tend to be fairly average human teenagers. As Protectors of the Plot Continuum, it is their responsibility to see that they don't abuse such powerful tools as the disguise generator even as they take advantage of them in order to remove the Sue. I think Legal is willing to overlook a few things as long as the Sue is duly stalked, captured, charged, etc., but if you're going to eat a Sue, be sure that there will be side effects once you've reverted back to your normal form.
If it helps, I described the effect of the disguise generator as creating an overlapping morphic field around the agent. It doesn't exactly change your nature like shape-shifting or morphing does, but you do physically become the disguise for all intents and purposes.
~Neshomeh -
But wouldn't the turning into a Time Lord trick contradict by
on 2009-01-22 23:25:00 UTC
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that? After all, the regenerations would be considered "a change in nature"...
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Eh. by
on 2009-01-23 01:25:00 UTC
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I'm not personally a big fan of that trick, to be honest. However, I think it's possible to make an argument for how it could work. One possibility is that a disguise generator hooked up to a TARDIS has enough oomph to enact a permanent change on the subject's own morphic field. Another is that a Time Lord's regeneration is powerful enough in itself that it can extend beyond the morphic field of the disguise to include that of the subject. Someone could probably come up with more possibilities.
Anyway, my explanation of disguises is just my explanation. It's not The Way Things Are unless everyone decides it it.
~Neshomeh