Real Oldbie 2 cents

Subject: Real Oldbie 2 cents
Author: Kippur
Posted on: 2008-10-01 02:21:00 UTC

Personally, I don't feel to comfortable with this. Now I admit I haven't been around in a while, but to throw my two cents in from what I remember when I first joined, the point was to keep the canons in canon.

You could pick up Sues or Minor Characters in fan fics for agents if you wanted to, or just create someone, but canons were off limits for a variety of reasons.

One of those being Lust Object. Throwing a canon into a room full of crazed agents who may lust after them is begging for trouble. It's bad enough that the agents have to deal with their lust objects in the Fics, but to tempt them with a canonically acting canon? It's not fair.

But this is just my two cents.

~Kips

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More canonical agent ideas by Chatvert on 2008-09-26 18:28:00 UTC Reply

Whow, whoa, whoa! Put down the pointy implements. Please. I implore you.

That's better. Now, I know my little pet project Team Phoenix has kind of been grandfathered into the PPC as a fact of life. And I'm not saying I want to bring in more members. (Seven's quite enough to be going on with.) However, there is Project Phoenix, which is separate, and dedicated to the recruitment and assimilation into the PPC of canon characters who (hopefully) won't cause a stampede.

Still with me? Good.

Because, dear colleagues, I've been mulling over new canons to add to the PPC for quite some time.

Nowaitdon'thurtme!

Steady on now...they would all be going to understaffed departments. One to Intel, one to DoSAT, and one to FicPsych. All three of them are incredibly well-qualified for these positions. (And two of them are unceremoniously murdered by a new, allegedly-canonical author, which is perhaps a blessing in disguise because it saved them from Character Assassination by aforementioned author, a fate worse than death IMO.)

For Intel, I nominate the bookverse Alexander Conklin, from the Bourne series, as he is a killer strategist and can hold his own in a fight if need be. (Seriously. Cane-fu.) He is also Captain Snark of the series, along with my next nominee...

...Dr. Morris Panov, candidate for FicPsych, an excellent psychiatrist with much experience with post-traumatic stress and other such lovely brain-things.

My last nominee is a mite more controversial, because she is such an important character in her canon - however, I justify this by clarifying that this is an alternate-universe version of this character, and there are reasons for her to join the PPC, not least of which is knowing two agents. She would not be removed from her home continuum; in fact, the one I plan on taking her from has already branched off. There are loads of other reasons, but I'll leave them to the person who will be writing this character, as she's bloody good at it.

My DoSAT nominee is Col. Samantha O'Neill, originally of Stargate: SG-1 fame.

WHOA HEY PUT THAT DOWN.

Again, this is an alternate-universe version of her, because she has been married to Gen. Jack O'Neill. Hence, you know, the different last name. She may change it back to Carter once within the PPC, because Jack won't be coming with her for reasons that are just way too convoluted to try and explain here (long-running insane RP being one of them). I submit that she is different enough from her canonical version to count as a separate character. Pseudocanon, if you will.

Now excuse me while I go put on my biohazard suit and hunker down in a bomb shelter...I mean, await your replies. ;D

Real Oldbie 2 cents by Kippur on 2008-10-01 02:21:00 UTC Reply

Personally, I don't feel to comfortable with this. Now I admit I haven't been around in a while, but to throw my two cents in from what I remember when I first joined, the point was to keep the canons in canon.

You could pick up Sues or Minor Characters in fan fics for agents if you wanted to, or just create someone, but canons were off limits for a variety of reasons.

One of those being Lust Object. Throwing a canon into a room full of crazed agents who may lust after them is begging for trouble. It's bad enough that the agents have to deal with their lust objects in the Fics, but to tempt them with a canonically acting canon? It's not fair.

But this is just my two cents.

~Kips
Another Canon Character by Anity on 2008-09-27 05:51:00 UTC Reply

About the alternate universe characters- those of you who have played Kngihts of the Old Republic will recognize this name- I suggest one of the million and something versions of Revan running around, whether from a specific fanfic or the author's imagination.

Basically, Knights of the Old Republic is a role playing game set 4,000 years pre-Star Wars movies. If you want a more detailed explanation of the plot, you can look it up, but Revan is an ex-Sith Lord who gets captured by the Jedi, mind-wiped, and sent to defeat his/her apprentice Malak.

The canon has Revan being lightside and male, but for the alternate universe side of it, there are all sorts of weird options. You can make Revan female or a dark sider in the game, not to mention messing around with his/her assumed name, but for the purpose of being really AU, it would also be possible to give him/her his/her memories back, or somehting. Anyone else like this idea?(Please, let not the overuse of slash marks by for nothing)
Ookay.... *dons Permission Giver Hat* by Techno-Dann on 2008-09-27 05:29:00 UTC Reply

We need to be really, really careful about how we do this. There is Canonical precedent, IIRC, we've got a copy of Voyager's Doctor working in medical (from TOS, actually). However, I would like to set some ground rules for borrowing Canonical characters (debate is welcome, of course).

First, and most importantly, we can't take characters out of the main continuity of their universe. We're here to protect the Canon, and that definitely includes the characters therein. Rescuing Wash, for instance, was rather borderline - I'm willing to let it stand as Canon, (and keep Wash around), but please, don't do it again?

Effectively, this limits us to pulling characters from AUs - while I'm no expert on alternate universe physics, I would suggest that the AU both has to be rather drastically different from the main Canon, and have been running for a long time - enough time and difference to (metaphysically) separate them from their Canonical counterparts.

The second rule I would suggest is that ex-Canons shouldn't be field agents. Mentioning that Sam is now working for DoSAT is fine, writing one-shots about her getting used to the job and her new co-workers is fine, stealing Luke Skywalker to kill 'sues with is definitely not.

Ultimately, the rule is "write maturely". This is the PPC - we're a band of crazy people going crazier while fighting the growing flood of badfic. We are not an insert-your-favorite-character sitcom.

That's my take, anyways. Discussion is welcome.

Yeah... *also dons PG Hat* by Neshomeh on 2008-09-28 17:45:00 UTC Reply

Looking at this thread, I'd like to add that we really shouldn't be looking for canon characters to add. It's one thing to speculate, hey, wouldn't it be interesting if so-and-so worked here, but as Dann said, that's not what we're really about. Please resist the temptation unless there are extremely compelling reasons to go ahead with it ~~like Joss Whedon being evil~~.

Also, along the lines of AUs being different from their canonical counterparts, it might help if they go by a different name. There is precedent for that sort of thing, after all, and it distinguishes them as separate characters.

~Neshomeh + $0.02
I read you loud and clear. by pigeonarmy on 2008-09-28 01:30:00 UTC Reply

If we're going to stick to strictly AU characters, I would suggest Future!Mohinder from the Heroes episode Five Years Gone. It's an alternate universe after the first season finale (so, therefore, it's an alternate universe that's been running for five years, and is drastically different to the main canon - as revealed by Season Three's Futures being completely different to Season One's), and he is the President's Chief Medical Advisor. Plus, it is suggested in the episode that the battle between Future!Peter and Future!Sylar kills him due to the sheer amounts of energy released. So, he would be a perfect candidate for medical.

I would also suggest Future!Hana from the same AU, as she has the power to "intercept, generate and interpret electronic wireless transmissions" - with her mind. She's also an ex-Mossad agent, and killed in the AU. She would be perfect for Intel or DoSAT.

I'll have to disagree with you on one point. by Kd7sov on 2008-09-28 23:44:00 UTC Reply

Specifically, that Hinder'd be a perfect candidate for medical.

Item 1: he has not been revealed to have any medical training. As I shouted at the screen several times in late Season 1, he's a professor of genetics. That is a somewhat different thing.

Item 2: In the early part of Season 3, he has demonstrated a dangerous recklessness and disregard for, among other things, proper procedures and common sense, as well as an unwillingness to listen to good advice. What the specific consequences of this will be, other than what may be a calcium deficiency, remain to be seen.

Also, it's somewhat iffy to say that it's a long-running AU, considering that it was in effect from Seven Minutes to Midnight to How to Stop An Exploding Man - a present!canon time of only a few weeks. For that matter, we only saw one episode containing it.

I'd also not say that the first Season 3 future - the one the present Future!Peter is from - is drastically different. It may be, but the scene we saw of it could fit very easily into a reasonable extrapolation thereof. The second future we saw - an unknown "distance" away - probably is, but... I dunno. Timelines in Heroes don't seem to be very solid.

I wouldn't object as much to Hana showing up, mainly because she is qualified for the position you specify.

You raise some very good points. by pigeonarmy on 2008-09-29 00:56:00 UTC Reply

However, I will argue that that particular AU has been eradicated because of the change of events (namely, NY not getting blasted to smithereens), and therefore Hinder'd still be a good character to recruit - perhaps there's a Department of Medical Development and Sue Experimentation or something? I seem to remember one of those existing...

Mmm... by Kd7sov on 2008-09-30 00:59:00 UTC Reply

While I can accept your point that it is, indeed, an "alternate" AU (and perhaps I let my mind wander too far when I was composing that post), I still balk at the idea that it's well-established. Moreso than any other Heroes future we've seen thus far, perhaps, but that's not really saying much.

According to the PPC Manual's list of departments, there is a Department of Mary-Sue Experiments, which might well be to his taste and qualifications. I don't know of any appearances by them except in DOGA's Alumia the Woodsprite mission, but if you search you might find more.

Great! by Chatvert on 2008-09-27 16:17:00 UTC Reply

I figured it would be something like that. Having canonicals running around in major roles would kind of throw things out of whack.

The additional Bourne books are so AU it's not even funny. Ask SealRat, she knows. Looks like everything's shipshape here. ^^
apology/explanation from a guilty party by The Trojanhorse on 2008-09-27 05:57:00 UTC Reply

I agree with the 'need to be really really careful', and will acknowledge that the way I ganked Wash wasn't as well explained as it could have been; suffice it to say that he was pinched from an AU fic and that *will* be explained, once I get round to filling all the gaps in my timelines.

You might also want to mention... by Techno-Dann on 2008-09-27 06:23:00 UTC Reply

...a chewing-out of the parties responsible by someone in a position of authority.

oh, that was always on the cards (nm) by The Trojanhorse on 2008-09-27 06:25:00 UTC Reply

Well, you know I'm gung-ho for it. by SealRat on 2008-09-26 20:00:00 UTC Reply

You are so much better at this sort of thing than me. I like the idea, but you knew that already.

Re: Well, you know I'm gung-ho for it. by Chatvert on 2008-09-26 20:13:00 UTC Reply

Well, it's all in how one begs and pleads, you know. It's the Whiner's Art.

Well, if we're going by alternate realties... by Artic Blade on 2008-09-26 23:39:00 UTC Reply

That would make Vamp!Willow and Vamp!Xander candidates too, from Buffy the Vampire Slayer. But while we're on the topic, as a matter of curiousity, would HQ have its own Stargate? If not, maybe we can make one that's just a very large portal, capable of sending tanks and the like through...

Then again, psychotic Agents + Tanks would equal much pain.

Also, as a matter of course... by Chatvert on 2008-09-27 04:04:00 UTC Reply

...I think a Stargate within the PPC would require ten chevrons. Possibly even more. xD
This is alternate to the nth degree... by Chatvert on 2008-09-27 02:13:00 UTC Reply

...because this Sam knows Harry Potter magic.

It's a really long story.
I see no problem with this by Winter on 2008-09-27 00:50:00 UTC Reply

Given that effectively policing my intended continuum will require building a hangar for the multi-kilometer long starship that will be necessary for non-canon planet killing, I fail to see how this could be a considered a problem.

We do have a Sun Crusher, you know... by Techno-Dann on 2008-09-27 05:11:00 UTC Reply

I think we can fit your pet starship, though. We've got at least one Conveniently Large Hanger - the biggest it's fit yet is the Enterprise D, but there's no upper limit on size.

I'd rather use canon weapons by Winter on 2008-09-27 15:01:00 UTC Reply

The Sun Crusher won't be necessary-as I understand it, general PPC policy is to use canon weapons and technology whenever possible, and when it comes to methods of destroying things, WH40k takes a back seat to no one. If the destruction of entire non-canon star systems is necessary, I intend to lease two or three Blackstone Fortresses from Abbadon the Despoiler, Warmaster of Chaos-they can combine their energies to shatter stars, and they're powered by sacrificed souls, which should be plentiful.