Erm....a smoothie, not old enough to drink yet. But that's so off topic.....

I think it's a mixture of both. I've never had an interesting math teacher (There's probably one out there.....hopefully.....somewhere.....) but I had this one teacher in 6th grade English that made me absolutely hate his class. He was so boring and I can't remember a darn thing he taught us. My classes this year aren't bad. I have one teacher who's a lot like me, and since we have about five people in that class, we've really bonded. And then my Social Studies teacher is the bomb (before she ended up in the hospital three weeks ago.....long story. She's doing better).

Although I still don't understand other people sometimes. We have a teacher, our science teacher, who uses a lot of what he calls "virtual labs". Sometimes they are really virtual labs, sometimes they're scavenger hunts across the internet, and sometimes they are practice problems or articles, even online movies. But everyone says they're pointless and he's a horrible teacher because he doesn't lecture enough. And then we have this great student teacher in our math class who tries to do some fun stuff with Geometry, and everyone's like "I wish she would just lecture." So I'm just like "?". I mean, he's not that engaging a teacher, so he can do smaller explanations but lectures don't work out that well. And math is a boring subject for us all. Why do they just want lectures?

The worst part is they say something of that sort right in front of the teacher in question. So it's really rude.

I don't mind saying I hate a teacher. I've hated a lot of teachers. I do, however, wait until said teacher is out of earshot.

We actually picked up a £20 boxed set of 20 books (I think they're the revised versions - a lot of the titles are slightly different to my memories) for when my kids are old enough. It's kind of hard not to start reading them...

hS

Thanks for the heads up!

Well, a class of all games wouldn't work. But I disagree that something at that end of the spectrum is not educational. You would just need the instructor to explain it to make sense, I guess.

Then again, I'm horribly hyper and creative, so that might just be me :)

Sorry, guess I didn't make myself clear: I'm definitely not saying that we should watch graphic violence. Bad things follow, and not that many people in my grade are that interested in gore. But is the reading as bad? It would depend on the book itself. I've read some violence, and honestly I tended to skim those parts. But I have read it, and most of the grade has had a little exposure at least.

Let's just agree to disagree on the last part. Both can be equally as horrible depending on a number of factors, including who's listening?

On a more serious note, the part of my history lessons that dealt with the Nazis featured some pretty graphic stuff, and that was in ninth grade. Then again, this was in Germany and supposedly meant to shock us into not ever doing stuff like that again... or something, I don't even know. Books that featured semi-graphic descriptions of people getting blown up were required reading for SIXTH grade German class. Also, my eighth grade English teacher made us watch "Silence of the Lambs", with the excuse that we wouldn't be able to understand the nastier language (as if that were the worst part). Childhood innocence? What childhood innocence?

Which sounds like a sci-fi name rather than an ordinal... or maybe a supervillain whose power is to make evil, grainy copies of things.

But I digress.

I think it's mostly because nobody uses first-line indentation online, which is what books normally have to set off new paragraphs; it's easier to hit "Enter" a couple of times than it is to remember the HTML/CSS code for creating an indent, assuming you're even posting someplace that allows that sort of code. Either way, though, I believe the idea is to make sure there's no possibility of confusing where one paragraph ends and the next one begins, such as if the last line of the previous paragraph is the same length as the first line of the following one.

I also find that double line-breaks (also called hard returns, I learned that today) are easier to read than indentation online, but I don't know why that is. Maybe because the average computer screen is wider than the average page, so that little indent doesn't take up as much space relatively and is thus less noticeable? I dunno.

~Neshomeh, who couldn't ignore an invitation like that.

Though I think the reason it wasn't vetted is because it was an extra-curricular activity, rather than an academic class. The Huffington Post article is a little more clear on that, though all the articles seem to muddy the waters by talking about academic value... which is somewhat irrelevant to an extra-curricular program. That fact also has me seriously wondering if it was all that necessary to cancel the program outright, rather than just having kids need a permission slip, or somesuch.

I see your point. I get that we don't know the whole story. But whatever violence there was in the class, someone didn't think it was too much (whoever signed off on the thing and whoever ran it) and if some parents thought it was too much, they still cut it for the rest of the student body.
I don't know, maybe it was really too much. But if there were at least two people in on it who were adults and were good with kids, and the kids don't seem to be plagued with nightmares according to the article, so....I'm not sure the material is that bad.
Could have had a few material links, though. But I doubt they would release them.

Imagine instead a class where they're told to write a 500 word story about surviving a zombie attack, and then asked to share their stories with each other.

Student One: 'It's been six days since the helicopter left. The food ran out this morning. Before long, one of us will have to make a run for the mall. The last one to try didn't make it back...'

Student Two: 'I gouged the undead's eyes out with my bare fingers and flung them to the ground at my feet. The orbs burst with a wet sound as I stomped down hard, and the zombie screamed with delicious agony.'

Student One: ... ... ... o.O

hS

And yeah, the last statement: true that.

First I should sincerely like to apologize for any toes I stepped on. That was not my intent, in either posting anonymously, or in that I ended up a bit on the rant-y side in the end.

Tray-Gnome, VixenMage and Huinesoron, I understand the problems that come with posting anonymously and the reason for the strong discouraging there of as it is most often abused. However from what is said in the Constitution;

Stick to one penname across the PPC as far as possible — or at least make it clear that the different names are still you. Please don’t deliberately use multiple names — it’s confuzzling and pointlessly annoying...

I understood it to be a strongly suggested request to keep confusion and drama down rather than a hard, fast, absolute rule that one must only ever post under one name. So as a dash and stab sort of post was not my intent, but rather that I wished to use the mostly con of internet anonymity to my favor in that if I were taken the very wrong way, or if as I suspected it might end up being an attackable position, I could let the opinion take the heat, leave the discussion as is recommended by the rules and continue to post as myself without worry that my posting an opinion on this topic would follow my name around for the rest of my (probably short after that point) time here. Plus I figured, as Huinesoron pointed out, it would not be hard for those in charge to determine my identity should I post something completely out of keeping with the rules around here, taking advantage of being able to post without naming myself to it's fullest and most often used extent. And I thank you for allowing me to remain as I wanted rather than outing me before a problem came up if it were going to. Nor did I hide the fact that I was a poster here, albeit a shy one yesterday.

Was I wrong to post without my name? In this case, most probably. However, while my newbie-shine may be wearing off, I've not been around but about a month and a half (Feb 12th), and I do not know people here well enough to have felt comfortable posting in opposition to the creator of the topic and it's responses at the time under my name. Should I have simply held off as I normally do in that case? Again, most probably, but for some reason I didn't. But having been stung before by people I know better, and stabbed in the back while by someone who was even at the time insisting we were friends and she looked up to me, I made a choice. And I ask that you please understand, even if it does not excuse, my decision, and accept my apology for it. I'm also sorry I'm awkward and shy (which do play a part) ^_^; And please know that you won't hear from me again. (The me that is the stated author of this post, not the me that is the boarder signed at the end that is.)

I now return you to your regularly scheduled discussion.

As to being or not being gifted, and thus being able to police yourselves vs. parents having to do so, I was going to try to make a similar argument/point as has already been put forth and I think Neshomeh put it well. Also as many have pointed out, the article is rather vague and I too fell victim to taking it at it's face value rather than realizing that upon a first reading, but my opinion still stands, that parents should be able to censor their children's reading/games/television when they feel it necessary, and although I didn't put it very well, I do agree with Pauline in that every child is different, and to a degree no one should tell them how they must parent, making allowances for abuse of the child and/or the child's abuse of others if they are allowed to run wild. But as Neshomeh said, parents will know their kids best, and so will be able to tailor their censorship of materials to the situations that face them. And since I know Pauline is right about kids sneaking around to do stuff as well the parents then either allow the material, if it was wildly in appropriate to teach them they should listen when they are told something is not allowed for reasons given. Or since they were involved enough in the first place to try to censor it, to appropriately disciple when the kid ignores the rules. Point is I still believe parents should have the right to speak up to schools and request certain materials or activities be removed or changed if they believe them to be harmful to the students, in this case mental, well being. Just as they can chose to not allow those subjects in their homes. And when enough parents are upset about the subject matter, as seemed to be the case in this story, then the school should re-evaluate the matter and either explain more to the parents, in the case of a knee jerk reaction as could surround a discussion about zombies considering most zombie games/movies can be fairly gory, and like Huinesoron pointed out, give kids a subject like that and you may get wholesome learning, and then someone steps up who is into all that gore and scars the rest of the class, yes we hope the teacher catches it, but what if they're not writing at school, what if it's a homework assignment that is not pre-read? And if the parents are still concerned the school can remove or change it. Such as in this case, you could still do a course centered around survival preparation and leave zombies out of it. Shipwreck them, spaceship wreck them on another similar planet, have an apocalypse scenario that doesn't involve zombies. It doesn't have to be zombies or quiet reading time. :)

And since I seem to have either most offended VixenMage, or at least they were the ones that spoke up about it, I apologize again.

I must admit, this made me raise my eyebrows. For every kid you can name who "runs wild and destroys things" because their parents haven't "sheltered" them enough, I'm sure I could name you a kid who goes wild and destroys things because their parents are controlling - or we could both admit that there are a lot of factors in the behavior of children and young adults, and anecdotal evidence doesn't really prove the point.

Here, I will admit you're right, I overgeneralized, or let the rant take over and yes lack of censorship is not always the cause of this, and yes, there are just as many perhaps that do so as a result of over controlling. The flip side being that for every kid I can name that "runs wild and destroys things" due to parents letting them get away with doing/reading/watching/playing anything they want, or was too controlling. There are probably just as many who are more like Pauline and her friends who receive less controlling in the material they are allowed because they are able to police themselves better than others, either due to higher intelligence, higher maturity for their age, good upbringing to begin with or some combination of the above. You don't ever really hear about the good kids, because... well they're good and don't cause trouble. So I do apologize for my over-generalization in the midst of a rant.

As for the other issue taken with over generalization on my part;

This, I really do have to take issue with. We have had a lot of kids on the PPC at fourteen or fifteen, and they're plenty mature enough to understand why they can't "do what they want." It's really quite an assumption to make, and honestly, I don't really appreciate the stigma you're putting on every/any 14-15 year olds. Plenty of us grow up faster than that, and it's pretty harsh to just assume that everyone has the same patterns of life. Some of us learned early why, exactly, doing "whatever you want" was a bad thing precisely because of parental situations.

Here I must disagree, mostly because although it was taken as harsh and directed toward thinking all younger people will act the same because they are younger. It really wasn't meant that way. I apologize for not being a little clearer on that point so that it wound up offending, but it was less a jab at young people and grouping them altogether in behavior. It was a response to the 14 (or 15) year old poster of this discussion stating she saw little reason for censorship (perhaps just of zombie violence) at any age;

Here's my view on it: Yeah, there is a certain age where certain things probably should be kept to certain standards. But we can't really hide our kids from reality forever. Now, if this were a course for first graders, I'd get what the issue is. Sort of.

So I was pointing out that her age probably played a part in her understanding of why censorship can be good. Yes there are people of all ages that still can't stand to be told, it's not just teens and children. And yes some younger people mature faster. But in this case, my point was that age was a factor to her argument, not trying to say every teen in general would follow the same behavioral pattern.

Again I apologize to toes that were stepped on.
~Myrddin

Aside from what Tray said about not jumping around names (the main reason for that, IIRC, is because putting on name after name after name is confusing and gets annoying), it puts up a sort of... flashing light, I suppose. When I see someone say "I'm going to post this, but I don't want to sign my name to it," my first thought - fair or not - is that it's going to be something hurtful or offensive that they don't want to take the blame for, and my second thought is that it's not offensive, but it's controversial, and they don't trust the rest of us not to jump down their throats. I don't think either of these were your intention, but as someone who places a lot of emphasis on identity, it's just something I would advise you to be cautious about.

That said, I would also say that we have a history, in the PPC, a fairly long one, of being able to discuss a lot of difficult, controversial, and emotionally charged topics without losing our cool or attacking one another. That hasn't always been the case, but I do believe we're doing pretty well, and I do trust people on the 'Board to be mature and respectful. I'll take this opportunity to remind everyone of the Constitution's words on the matter:

5. All respectful opinions that do not attack, insult, or persecute others (see Article 1) are welcome. We encourage respectful, friendly debates here. Should a debate escalate into an argument for any reason, everyone involved should step back and calm down before continuing. ...

6. Everyone in the PPC Community should be respected as people, regardless of who they are. The opinions of a newbie are just as valid and wanted as those of someone here for four years. ...

There's more, of course, and I strongly urge everyone to refresh their memory if they ever find themselves wondering "Is this appropriate for the PPC Posting Board?" (Perhaps I needn't say this, but when you start off by mentioning, offhand, "pet rights" and "who's allowed to marry who," I feel it might bear repeating.) But that's all beside the point! I am interested in what you have to say, here, so I would like to respond to that - I just wanted to get that stuff out of the way first, since it seemed to be merited by the oncoming likelihood of a Serious Discussion^TM.

Having seen both sides to the "parental censorship" thing, I would have to agree with you that it's not a bad thing for parents to keep an eye on the kind of media content their children consume. I also think it's important for kids to have some independence and choice in their media - my siblings and I were very, very strictly controlled in our media choices, and when we did finally get turned loose at the library without supervision, we made some very, very poor choices (and some good choices! Tamora Pierce, Harry Potter, A Wrinkle in Time, R. A. Salvatore...). So I definitely think there's something to be said for allowing kids to, so to speak, fall and hurt themselves on bad literature, if only so they know what it is when they see it as adults.

I've met children who run wild and destroy things and get into nasty crap because their parents don't want to do anything to "stifle or censor or shelter" them, they don't end up well. Or how about the middle-schoolers that show up with guns or kill themselves over a C or a break up because they don't understand the permanence or seriousness of death due to being inundated with it from a young age rather than sheltered a bit?

I must admit, this made me raise my eyebrows. For every kid you can name who "runs wild and destroys things" because their parents haven't "sheltered" them enough, I'm sure I could name you a kid who goes wild and destroys things because their parents are controlling - or we could both admit that there are a lot of factors in the behavior of children and young adults, and anecdotal evidence doesn't really prove the point.

And as for your cases of not understanding censorship, you said you were 14? 15? No one understands why they can't do what they want at that age, (some people never grow out of it), I know I didn't.

This, I really do have to take issue with. We have had a lot of kids on the PPC at fourteen or fifteen, and they're plenty mature enough to understand why they can't "do what they want." It's really quite an assumption to make, and honestly, I don't really appreciate the stigma you're putting on every/any 14-15 year olds. Plenty of us grow up faster than that, and it's pretty harsh to just assume that everyone has the same patterns of life. Some of us learned early why, exactly, doing "whatever you want" was a bad thing precisely because of parental situations.

Basically, I do understand your underlying point - there is a limit to allowing kids to just have unlimited access to the content they want, without supervision. But I think you could stand to tone down the condescension. This response came of as rather heavy-handed, especially in response to someone who is dealing with this issue from the other side of the argument. Please consider, in the future, that we have people of all ages (roughly, over thirteen) on this space - generalizing that "all" people of a certain age are too immature to understand certain things is something I'm not really a fan of.

"On your anonymity... Honestly, that's usually kind of frowned upon on the Board. You may have noticed that we have a "one name per person" rule. The reason for this is because, well, we do try to be open and honest with each other here! You don't have anything to fear from us. This is a community where we do value everyone's opinion, provided it's not openly offensive. Seriously! If somebody disagrees with you here, it's highly unlikely anybody will flame you. Even when people disagree, the conversation is really quite civil."

I'll admit that my ideas on censorship are pretty radical. But here's my point- my parents haven't censored me at all. And I can't stand violence. I have no desire to read saucy sex scenes. And I've never sworn in school.
See, maybe I'm wrong and this isn't the norm, but I've heard so many times that a friend of mine wasn't old enough to watch something. Most of them who don't take that freedom as far as it can go, or sneak around it big time, have a huge bond with their parents.
But the rest of them? They sneak it around. And some of them actually like the stuff and that's why they do it. But most of them read the saucy sex scenes or the graphic violence because their parents don't like them reading it. By making it specifically banned, they're drawing the kid's attention to it. For a younger kid, this makes it desirable and a curiosity; for the older kids it's a way to rebel. My friends who don't but anything around their parents with this stuff were told as really young kids, as well, exactly why they weren't allowed to read the books.
This is possibly because all of us are gifted (and that's probably part of the problem- hard to censor your first grader when her reading level's a seventh grade) but we have huge curiosities. I don't condemn those who censor, though it doesn't make the greatest amount of sense to me (yeah, I know, wait a few years) but you have to do it the right way and once a kid hits a certain age, it has to stop.
What is my opinion on how censoring should go, if it's done? It's two very simple rules- A. Don't tell someone else how to parent, and B. Tell them why in the most age appropriate terms you can without violating your morals. There are several kids out there who are like me- they aren't censored, and their cool like that. So demanding to take out courses like this or books out of the library simply annoys them and, if it's one of the few high level books in a school library or high level courses in elementary school, can also hold back other kids education. Thank God no one in my town paid any attention to the level seven books in the library....
Second of all, kids are curious. Depends on the kid how much, but that's kind of their nature. Most of the people I know who censor just say "It's bad" or "It's not age appropriate" and that's not going to do you much good unless you have the most obedient kid on the planet. How about explaining that it's violence and it would be best to wait until their older, or whatever else works well?
I'm saying that unless people explain it, most of the time the kids are going to read it just to satisfy their curiosity, anyway. I satisfied it by reading and asking, and honestly the closest I got to actually wanting to watch the saucy scenes was one rated R movie I thought would be funny (I ended up never wanting to see it again, by the way). My parents may not have censored, but it's not like they put the books in front of me or actively swore. One of the things I loved about them was from a young age they never treated me as a little kid- they treated me as if I knew what I was doing and was capable.
Also, once the kid hits sophmore, freshman year, it's going to get practically impossible. That's just due to how high school students are treated and how other parenting methods work as well. If people keep trying to do it, not only is it not the greatest for the kid, they might get bullied if they don't try to sneak it.
And if it's a gifted kid, the deadline needs to get pushed back. Gifted kids often have higher reading levels and understanding levels- a gifted seventh grader can have the understanding of a freshman or higher, even if they don't have the knowledge.
Sorry, this is turning into another rant, and I definitely would rather discuss this civilly (You should see some political debates at school....). But my point is not many kids naturally want to read the stuff. Censor can be good (and you're right, sometimes seriously overdone) for a simple barrier, but it can also encourage it, from what I've seen.

Some schools include 6th grade in middle school, and some include 9th grade. I've heard 6th-8th, 7th & 8th or 7th-9th all referred to as "middle school" by different institutions.