Arwen

Subject: Arwen
Author: EileenAlphabet
Posted on: 2014-08-06 21:53:00 UTC

If memory serves me, in TOS, there was a fic where Arwen was around 9. Jay or Acacia mentioned that at that age she would have been an baby. This makes the whole scene with 13 year old Arwen seem even more ridiculous, since she couldn't have been more than a toddler.

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J. Boorman's Lord of the Rings by Huinesoron on 2014-08-06 12:45:00 UTC Reply

This thread is not a joke.

This thread is seriously, honestly, genuinely not a joke. To the best of my knowledge, everything I'm about to tell you is 100% true.

You're still not going to believe me, and frankly I don't blame you. But this thread is not a joke.

In the early 1970s, United Artists commissioned a script for The Lord of the Rings. This fell between the Zimmerman script mentioned in Tolkien's Letters, and the eventual Bakshi movie we all love to mock. The script was written by John Boorman, who later reworked some aspects of it into Excalibur, and it...

... well, let me put it like this. You know how we complain that Jackson didn't read the books?

I've compiled a comprehensive breakdown of the script from two sources who seem to have actually seen it, which you can find here. It's long, but... yeah, you should read it. It... shall we say, 'rewards' reading.

And some extracts, just to whet your appetite/make you run screaming:

The naked Frodo lies covered with leaves on a large, round, solid crystal table in the Great Hall in Rivendell. A bearded Elrond ("King of the Elves"), Gandalf, the Ranger, Boromir, the four Hobbits, Gimli, and a bunch of elves are present. Frodo suffers from the "wraith essence" in the wound. Elrond says if they don't get it out, Frodo will serve Sauron. Elrond also predicts that from the "fowl" essence of the Riders, a new form shall rise again.

The elves start chanting in an attempt to heal Frodo. Then enters Elrond's daughter, the 13-year-old Arwen, "our little lady Arwen" to try to heal Frodo. Elrond tells Gimli to stand with his axe ready to cut-off Frodo's infected arm if Arwen should swoon or cry out. The surgery is delicate in that it is, as Gandalf says, “a struggle, a test of strength, between the power of Sauron and the power of the Elves.”

Arwen plunges a thin, red-hot knife into Frodo's wound. Tension mounts. It seems Gimli is going to have to cut-off Frodo's arm. Then Boromir pipes up: "Enough! How long shall we fuss over a ring and a sick Hobbit? ...Lord Elrond, did you summon me to sing hymns over a Halfling?"

Gandalf tells Boromir to shut up, because Arwen is literally risking her life in this operation. Boromir wants to take the Ring, and Gandalf challenges him to do so. Boromir tries to grasp the Ring, but an unseen force holds him back.

Then Arwen succeeds, pulling a dark splinter from Frodo's wound. Pippin cries out, "Frodo will live!"

And right then and there they start having their council, Frodo presumably still naked.

Gandalf says they now have to go through Moria, which pleases Gimli. They all ascend stone steps to a blank wall of rock. Gandalf runs his staff across the surface, revealing the emblems of Moria. The "hieroglyphics" on the doors of Moria are written in the forgotten ancient dwarf-tongue, which Gandalf can read, but not speak; he translates them as "Sing friend, and enter."

Frodo figures out the riddle (to sing the dwarfish word for friend). Neither Gandalf nor Gimili can speak the ancient dwarven tongue. Gandalf tries speaking some guttural words, but they don't work. Boromir starts making fun of Gandalf, which makes the Hobbits laugh. So Gandalf invites Boromir to try, who then hurls himself against the rock door, falling back rubbing his shoulder. The Hobbits then laugh at Boromir.

Then Gandalf knows what he can do...

"Only Gimili has the memory to open the door...You greedy Dwarves...Greedy Dwarves! Just dig, dig, dig, for precious metals...Dig! You greedy Dwarf!"

So Gimli, entranced, beings cutting into the ground with his axe. It's not fast enough for Gandalf, so he smacks him with his staff, making him dig faster. Then Gandalf throws his cloak over Gimli, and gives Gimli a sound thrashing. This causes Gimli to relive dwarven ancestral memories. Gimli emerges from his hole, and he sings the dwarven word, opening the door.

Galadriel takes Frodo into her tent. Inside are carpets and cushions, as well as a small silver basin filled with water. What can I do now but quote the script:

FRODO: I look and I see nothing.
GALADRIEL: You look and you see nothing, for you are not yet ready.
FRODO: When, when shall I be ready? And how?
GALADRIEL: With knowledge. And I am that knowledge.
FRODO: I - I don't know what questions I should ask.
GALDRIEL: Your eyes ask questions… already.

Accepting the invitation, his eyes wander over her body, drinking in its loveliness. GALADRIEL's austere and aloof features soften. GALADRIEL's hand touches the chain from which the Ring dangles. And FRODO's hand takes hers. FRODO looks again into the reflection in the basin and sees their two faces come together and kiss.

As it turns out, the basin isn’t the Mirror at all; it is, instead, Galadriel’s Elven Ring.

Then we cut away to the rest of the Fellowship, stuck outside the tent in a huge hammock-like thing. Humorously, Merry takes a bite of lembas (which, if you remember, tastes like whatever you are thinking about at the time), rolls it around in his mouth, savors the taste ecstatically, and says, "Galadriel."

Then a monstrous snake “perhaps a hundred yards long” slithers onto the battlefield. Everyone is dismayed, while the orcs chortle with joy. Suddenly the snake disintegrates, and The snake was actually warriors holding up their painted shields. The good guys cheer. Éomer charges the snake, but before reaching it, out of the snake’s head "breaks a great white banner with a tree embossed on it." Then the rest of the snake breaks apart, revealing its components to be Aragorn’s collective army of Rangers, Elves, Dwarves, and the Dead -- their shields having been painted to resemble the patterns of a snake.

Aragorn then sees Eowyn's body. He "spreads out her arms, and covers her with his body. He presses his palms on her palms, his legs on her. After a moment, she moans, and her body writhes, trapped under Aragorn's great weight. When he feels her stir, he rises, lifting her with him, enfolding her in his arms, pressing her mouth and body to his."

Aragorn is enraptured by Eowyn's beauty. She starts to swoon again, but Aragorn "kisses her with passion and intensity." They look into each others eyes with love.

Meanwhile, Gandalf is performing a nifty tie-dye trick with the banner of Elendil. Having ripped the white banner from its mast, he carefully folds it, and then dips it into Denethor's blood. He unfurls it. "On the white flag is a beautiful mandala in blood, radiating from the centre of the white tree. It is as though the bare tree had burst into blossom."

He holds it over Aragorn and Éowyn, and proclaims “The hands of the healer are the hands of the King! The King has returned to Gondor!” A group of onlookers chant “Aragorn King! Éowyn Queen!” Gandalf completes his song: "Renewed shall be blade that was broken: The crownless again shall be King."

And I haven't even included the Kabuki Theatre of Elrond, the Great Wall of Mordor, the drugged mushrooms, the Rope Bridge of Khazad-Dum, or that classic final line:

Look! Only seven colours. Indeed the world is failing...

I, uh... I realise it's good form to provide a direction for further discussion, but honestly? I think you can handle it yourselves.

hS

... by Seafarer on 2014-08-23 09:01:00 UTC Reply

I don't understand... Who could do this?
This... this is terrible!
Actually, it's quite impressive how much worse this is than a fair amount of hormonally-influenced Suefic. It's horrifying, sure. But impressive.
By the Emperor... (nm) by 99Hedgehog on 2014-08-06 23:41:00 UTC Reply
What the teacup did I just read? by EileenAlphabet on 2014-08-06 21:48:00 UTC Reply

Can we spork it? Is the question burning in my mind after reading the extracts and a bit of the rest. Okay, probably not, since it was released to the general public and thus it would be unfair.
But, seriously, this rivals some of the worst badfics I have seen being killed by Agents.

Why not spork it? by Calista on 2014-08-07 05:58:00 UTC Reply

Just because a fanfic has been published or because it's a movie script, doesn't make it not a fanfic.

Couple of reasons. by Huinesoron on 2014-08-07 07:14:00 UTC Reply

First and foremost, I can't track down a copy of the complete script; the summary is by someone who owns a copy, but they haven't released the full text.

Secondly, the full script is 176 pages long. ;)

And third... are you ready for this?

This was an officially-created script in collaboration with the Tolkien Estate (and possibly Tolkien himself). The fact that it was ultimately rejected, to my mind, is immaterial. It occupies exactly the same position in respect to Middle-earth as the Bakshi and Jackson movies. Which (you're gonna love this) technically makes it a canon in need of protection...

And if anyone can find badfic* of it for me to spork, I will be eternally grateful.

hS

*'Why specify badfic?' Because there actually is BLotR fanfic. It's by Hama of TheOneRing.com, and runs like this:

At the top, as high as Gandalf could reach, was an arch of interlacing letters in an Elvish character. Below, though the threads were in places blurred or broken, the outline could be seen of an anvil and a hammer surmounted by a crown with seven stars. Beneath these again were two trees, each bearing crescent moons. More clearly than all else there shone forth in the middle of the door a single star with many rays.

“There are the emblems of Durin!“ cried Gimli.

“And there is the Tree of the High Elves!“ said Legolas.

“And the Star of the House of Fëanor,“ said Gandalf. “They are wrought of ithildin that mirrors only starlight and moonlight, and sleeps until it is touched by one who speaks words now long forgotten in Middle-earth. It is long since I heard them, and I thought deeply before I could recall them to my mind.”

“What does the writing say?“ asked Frodo, who was trying to decipher the inscription on the arch. “I thought I knew the elf-letters but I cannot read these.

“The words are in the elven-tongue of the West of Middle-earth in the Elder Days,“ answered Gandalf. “But they do not say anything of importance to us. They say only: The Doors of Durin, Lord of Moria. Speak, friend, and enter. And underneath small and faint is written: I, Narvi, made them. Celebrimbor of Hollin drew these signs.”

“What does it mean by speak, friend, and enter?“ asked Merry.

“That is plain enough,“ said Gimli. “If you are a friend, speak the password, and the doors will open, and you can enter.”

“Yes,“ said Gandalf, “These doors are probably governed by words. Some dwarf-gates will open only at special times, or for particular persons; and some have locks and keys that are still needed when all necessary times and words are known. These doors have no key. In the days of Durin they were not secret. They usually stood open and doorwards sat here. But if they were shut, any who knew the opening word could speak it and pass in. At least so it is recorded, is it not, Gimli?“ “It is,“ said the dwarf. “But what the word was is not remembered. Narvi and his craft and all his kindred have vanished from the earth.”

“But do not you know the word, Gandalf? “asked Boromir in surprise.

“No!“ said the wizard. “I was hoping Gimli did.”

They all turned to the Dwarf.

“Don’t look at me!” said Gimli. “This all happened well before my time!”

Legolas harrumphed!

“And what is that supposed to mean?” asked Gimli.

“Rather, I think, your wits have been addled by too much Dwarven Ale! It isn’t that you don’t know the password, it’s more likely you can’t remember!” said the Elf.

Gimli scowled. “And I suppose a drop of wine never ever passed your lips, either,” he said.

“Typical of a dwarf, always accusing others of your own foibles. That was how the wars between our two peoples got started in the first place.”

“It was not the fault of the Dwarves that the wars began,” said Gimli.

”I have not heard that it was the fault of the Elves,” said Legolas.

”I have heard both,” said Gandalf; “and I will not give judgement now. But I beg you two, Legolas and Gimli, at least to be friends, and to help me. I need you both. The doors are shut and the sooner we have the password the better. You must try to remember, Gimli!”

Boromir strode forward. “Stuff all that! I say we give the dwarf a good kicking. Then he’ll remember all right!”

Legolas nodded his head enthusiastically, but it was only when Aragorn started rolling up his sleeves that the balance was tipped. Gandalf sighed and shook his head sadly, before pulling out a large black jack from within his robe. Gimli backed away. Merry and Pippin went over to one of the Holly trees and pulled off a couple of thick branches from it. Gimli backed further away. Sam went to his pack to get Mr Frodo his knuckle-dusters, before pulling out a large piece of 2 by 4 for himself. Gimli was now trying to back his way through the cliff, but not getting very far. Boromir, grinning all the while, put on his metal studded leather gauntlets, while Legolas took a large rice flail from his quiver, and whirled it about his head. Gimli tried to climb the cliff to get away, but it was too late. Finally, Aragorn looked at the various items hanging from his belt, and finally plumped for his trusty day stick emblazoned with the emblem of the white tree. He looked at the others and they all nodded in return.
“Right then!” said Boromir, advancing. “Come here my beauty!”

Which... is technically enough of a divergence from BLotR to qualify? Maybe? ~hS

On the other hand... MicroMission! by Huinesoron on 2014-08-07 10:46:00 UTC Reply

Boorman

Featuring Mortic Wentway of the Department of WhatThe, Rile X of DAVD, a handful of surprise guests, and appalling treatment of everyone's favourite Dwarf.

hS

I like it. (nm) by zdimensia on 2014-08-08 17:37:00 UTC Reply
Can Boorman be sent to OFUM? by Snowy the Sane Fangirl on 2014-08-08 05:58:00 UTC Reply

Please say that at the very least in some dark depth of my imagination, that man is suffering through "Evil Is as Evil Does" and "Elven Customs and Language." Please?

I'm not done with this... but... I think this must be what it's like to be on drugs. That part with "the Mirror of Galadriel?" Eeeeer...

That's all I can say.
That was an interesting read. by the Irish Samurai on 2014-08-07 13:15:00 UTC Reply

I like how you handled the 'canon' nature of the Boorman script, and the reaction of the agents when they realised that they couldn't technically do anything about it.

Rile X finding out that he'd volunteered for the mission was very amusing, especially considering what Kyaris says later on (and him very wisely keeping quiet).

I like the exorcism scene, especially that it didn't work right the first time. Out of interest, the memory capsules that Mortic tried using at first, is this the first time they've appeared? I don't recall reading about them before. Quoting a canon character's description at them to try and get them back in character seems like a very good way of doing things.

There were some particularly good lines in there, my favourite line from the whole thing is definitely '“Well done, you can understand simple statements,” Kyaris said. “Here’s another one: don’t touch anything.' (It's that last bit that makes it such a good line, for me).

Just one minor comment about SPaG - those pesky dash followed by a speech marks are causing trouble again. While they should be closing speech marks, they're opening marks instead.

With regards to the mission pins, why does Mortic look for one for both of them? I thought they were just used for indicating that an agent had been temporarily seconded to work with another Department, so I can see Rile receives the WhatThe pin, but not why Mortic would be looking for the DAVD one for himself.

Thanks! by Huinesoron on 2014-08-07 13:51:00 UTC Reply

The memory capsules are new for this - they were originally going to be simple USB memory sticks, but in an upcoming mission, Agent hS doesn't recognise a DVD because HQ (or at least his part) uses more advanced, fictional technology where it can. So I gave Mort something more advanced, too.

I really dislike smart quotes; I need to start remembering to get rid of them. All now changed to straight quotes to neatly sidestep the problem.

Mission pins: well, I could pin this on Mort not really knowing how they work! But more generally, except possibly in the case of the Department of Plagiarism, secondment seems to work both ways. Rile X was seconded (or pressganged) to WhatThe because his expertise as a DAVD agent could be useful. Equally, one could view the mission as Rile X's assignment, with Mort seconded in to provide WhatThe expertise.

Plus, it was an opportunity to make a joke about DAVD's flashpatch, which I couldn't resist. ;) Yes, I could have taken the chance to decide what the patch could be, thus standardising the system and making everything a bit more logical - but this was way more fun. I'm hoping the question of what their patch is - and even the question of why that's a 'funny story' - never gets answered. :D

(Of course, technically it would be Rile's responsibility to give Mort a DAVD pin - but until they hit general circulation, that's not going to happen. So Mort did it himself, or tried to)

hS

I see. by the Irish Samurai on 2014-08-07 14:31:00 UTC Reply

I thought the memory capsules were new. One of my favourite aspects of the PPC setting is all the crazy tech we have (particularly the stuff the developed in-house, instead of just pinched from a canon) so I was a little surprised to see a reference to what seemed to be standard equipment that I'd never heard of.

With regards to the mission pins, and who counts as being seconded to who, my personal thought is that whoever receives the mission on the console is the 'primary agent', with the other being seconded. So in this case, it was a DAVD mission, because it went to Mortic's console, with WhatThe support. But that's just me - there's no reason why it can't be that everyone participating gets a pin.

I really like the idea of the mission pins, and hope to have an excuse to use them myself sometime.

By the way, did you get my recent(ish) e-mails about Ispace Wars chapter 7 and the updated version of my Ispace mission?

One clarification: by Huinesoron on 2014-08-07 14:38:00 UTC Reply

The 'high-speed exorcism' approach used by Mortic is pretty much unique to him. It's something that wouldn't be necessary to most departments - only WhatThe and maybe DAVD have to cope with ultra-fast derailments like that - and further, it requires special skill to use. If you recall (or even if you don't!) Mortic is from the Order; pinpoint accuracy simultaneous delivery of nine capsules is certainly an Order skill or incantation at work. A Jedi could probably pull it off, or some kinds of magic user, or maybe a machine intelligence - but I don't think even, say, a Noldo of Aman could do that.

I did get your emails, though I don't think I've read them... a week's holiday followed by having to get through a 24-episode DVD box set in a week has kind of devoured my computer time.

hS

Re: One clarification: by the Irish Samurai on 2014-08-07 15:14:00 UTC Reply

Yeah, I wasn't thinking that it was a standard procedure, or that you were trying to make it one. I just think it's cool to see variety in going about a typical task (well, typical if you're a PPC agent that is. I imagine that exorcisms are fairly non-standard these days).

I couldn't remember much about Mortic (I've just visited his wiki page for a refresher), but I assumed that he was more than just a regular human from the way he hit them all at once like that. I meant to comment on that, but it looks like I forgot. The way it was described, with his hand sweeping out and a series of small projectiles striking with unerring accuracy, put me in mind of the kunai skills of typical anime ninjas (the badass main character types, as opposed to the swarms of faceless minions that get mown down). However, after looking at his page again, I can be fairly confident that he is not a ninja :)

Mortic is older than ninjas. by Huinesoron on 2014-08-07 15:41:00 UTC Reply

In the unpublished portions of Winding Down, I have this exchange:

Tango shrugged. "Not my choice. My go? Right. You, Mortic."

The man blinked. "Been a while," he murmured. "Truth, please."

Tango thought for a moment, and then caught Elanor's eye. Nodding thoughtfully, she asked, "How old are you?"

Mortic frowned. "You're asking me that?"

"I wouldn't have said it if I weren't."

The Agent shrugged. "I don't actually know, anyway. I mean, the Order broke up a long time ago… the factions eventually showed up again as various organisations on Earth. The Knights Templar, the Freemasons… "

"The Masons claim to go back to Solomon's temple," Ontic pointed out, looking at him. "You can't be that old."

Mortic looked surprised. "Oh, yes, older than that. We were involved in sorting out the aftermath of the Exodus, settling the Egyptians back down and so on. And there was a while before that…"

"I think the answer's simply 'very old'," Ontic informed Tango. "You're not going to get anything better."

Tango sighed. "I guess… your turn, Mortic."

As far as I'm concerned, that's written canon - and now it's on the Board, so it can even be cited. ^-^

hS

When the script does get released... by zdimensia on 2014-08-07 10:25:00 UTC Reply

Perhaps a copy could make its way around HQ, and each glaring part could be reacted to by a different agent pair. With comments like "I really hope that badficcers never hear of it because I don't want to protect it." Maybe the agents that didn't read the books will find parts that they like.

Re: J. Boorman's Lord of the Rings by Miah on 2014-08-06 20:24:00 UTC Reply

What's so bad about this is that clearly, they have read the books. They just didn't care.

Aragorn and Eowyn and basically healing cock? Frodo naked in the middle of the Council and Arwen is only 13 years old? How do Elves age when extremely young compared to young humans?

The thing that strikes me the most in all these examples you've included is the profound lack of analysis. They've clearly read enough to get the gist of what is on the page, but they've made no effort whatsoever to understand what they were reading.

Arwen by EileenAlphabet on 2014-08-06 21:53:00 UTC Reply

If memory serves me, in TOS, there was a fic where Arwen was around 9. Jay or Acacia mentioned that at that age she would have been an baby. This makes the whole scene with 13 year old Arwen seem even more ridiculous, since she couldn't have been more than a toddler.

Yeah, about that. by Huinesoron on 2014-08-07 07:03:00 UTC Reply

The mechanics of elven aging are a bit unclear, particularly since they're based on a single source. In essence, though, ~~our~~ their bodies age slower, but their minds age faster. So they talk and run by the age of one or so - but by the age of (say) five, they still look to human eyes like a two-year old. Even though they're probably as bright as a ten-year-old.

In Aman, the age of adulthood was 50 (!!! and that might even be 50 Valian years, or 500 years of the sun), but that doesn't necessarily imply that's when their bodies reached adult stature. Humans reach full growth long before 'adulthood' - particularly in Tolkien's time, when 'adult' meant 21.

So I read this as Arwen looking around 13, since it seems to be stage direction, not dialogue. That would make her about, oh, mid-twenties, maybe? And intelligent enough to have several university degrees. ;) 'course, she's only half-elven, so it may be even more messed up...

hS

...wut. by Iximaz on 2014-08-06 20:22:00 UTC Reply

I just... I can't...

*curls up in the corner and dies*
So, Jerk!Boromir Was a Thing Before the Jackson Movies. (nm) by sjosten on 2014-08-06 18:49:00 UTC Reply
Wow (nm) by Miah on 2014-08-06 17:42:00 UTC Reply
Valar help us. (nm) by eatpraylove on 2014-08-06 17:05:00 UTC Reply