The smiths of the Naugrim are wise...

Subject: The smiths of the Naugrim are wise...
Author: wobblestheclown
Posted on: 2014-03-13 14:52:00 UTC

It starts with the fire-lance.

The earliest blackpowder weapons weren't guns in the conventional sense. Rather, they were more akin to flamethrowers; basically tubes full of gunpowder on a stick that shot fire everywhere. There are a lot of places this'd be created, probably with mining safety as an original purpose (flammable gases and so forth), but the most obvious pick is Erebor. Think about it for a second: the Dwarves there remember the dragon Smaug, and some of the weirder ones are going to try and replicate that so-destructive dragon fire. They come across some powders that replicate the effects and, by very carefully creating a mixture of the best ones, arrive at something akin to gunpowder. The discovery spreads to the other Dwarf-holds, slowly but in time.

Now, fire-lances are all well and good, but they're not as good as they could be at killing Orcs. One dwarf who seizes on this terrible fire-spitting weapon and its potential is Balin, who uses it to take back the tunnels of Moria from Azog and his foul kin. The smiths in his service, and there are doubtless many because Dwarves, refine the process, initially adding shrapnel to the mix but eventually coming up against iron fortifications that are proof against flames. This is how the first of the gathol-karkal, or wallbreakers, comes into being. The first bomb, in other words.

Slowly, the fire-lances branch between those that use blackpowder as an accelerant and those that use it as a means of propelling sharp things at range. The goblin mind has a kind of animal cunning, and it realises that getting close to the dwarf-fire is bad news, so they become archers and slingers out of necessity. Even the strongest dwarf cannot hurl a throwing-axe with the same range as a bow, so they adapt some fire-lances for this purpose. Originally, these fire-bows launch spears and arrows, but the smarter dwarves see this is inefficient. Stones are carved into sphere and inscribed with runes of hatred and divine retribution, and crews set up to deliver these balls to goblins via wide-bore blackpowder guns.

These things, tubes upon a staff in the traditional design, are unwieldy in the tight tunnels of goblinfolk, so the design is shortened and the balls are made smaller, with but single runes of loathing carved on each. The firing mechanism improves from tapers to a slow-match, used often in candles to preserve them and grant light (torches around blackpowder being a Bad Idea). This is when the War of the Ring starts - because of this, the Dwarves of Moria are able to put up a much better fight against the Orcs, and the massed firepower of the matchlock musket means Balin is still King. Also, no worries about cave trolls because there are very few left with all their bits still attached.

Perhaps the Fellowship comes across these Dwarven warriors after Caradhras defeats them and they choose Moria. There, the battle is not yet lost, and Gimli gets his first taste of Morian powderwork. Gandalf's fireworks know-how will also come in handy; through analysis of them, he gives another terrifying weapon to Balin in exchange for safe passage. Perhaps this is where Boromir's redemption is foreshadowed; he sees the guns of the Dwarves as a symbol of power and pleads for the knowledge of firearms to be given to Gondor.

Perhaps Osgiliath does not fall either...

Meh. I'm just spouting conjecture at this point. =]

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If you were at OFUM... by KittyEden on 2014-03-12 12:49:00 UTC Reply

...what would you do first?
Who would you stalk? Who would you try to befriend? Would you actually do you homework? Which Mini-Balrog would you take home?

I would personally try to start a League of Chaos with Merry and Pippin, attempt to glomp Frodo, and adopt a Gandalf food-creature.
Oh, I'd take Eywyn home.

~Kitty

Me at OFUM? by eatpraylove on 2014-03-15 21:39:00 UTC Reply

Hmm...I don't think I'd be a stalker, but you never know. I'd try to befriend Lady Eowyn cause she's cool, and Legolas because Eru knows the poor elf needs a break from his army of lusters.

Of course I'd do the homework; can't risk Elf-lords or whoever getting mad at me. (ESPECIALLY not Lord Elrond...hoo boy...) No mini-Balrog here, thanks.
If I was at OFUM... by Legacy on 2014-03-15 19:52:00 UTC Reply

It'd probably be for writing a 'Stu or something. Romance and stuff along those lines never interested me. I don't think I'd be glomping or stalking anybody.

I would actually try to do the homework, and try to befriend some of the Dwarves. (Although since I don't have a very hard head, it probably wouldn't go that well…) And Mini-Balrog? I have no idea. Possibly one of Thorin's (or whatever his mini is) party.

:)
Re: If you were at OFUM... by Miah on 2014-03-13 21:04:00 UTC Reply

I have a mini-Balrog Khazad-Dym, but I'd attend the OFUM to finally get through the Silmarillion. I've started it several times, and I even like all of it that I have read, but I always end up putting it down and forgetting about it for months, until I have to start over again.

I feel terribly uneducated whenever one of these Tolkien threads pops up, because it is clearly fascinating to get into the details and history.
A slight change of plan. by wobblestheclown on 2014-03-13 12:38:00 UTC Reply

I am very interested in early blackpowder weaponry, especially the weirder examples. I'm also very interested in applying that sort of thing to Middle-Earth and seeing what happens. Logically, this'd mean a great deal of time spent carving wood, forging thin metal tubes, and blowing m'self up as part of the testing process. It'd also likely mean I repeatedly fell foul of the OFU's administration because Guns Don't Belong In Middle-Earth, but I'm also familiar with the fates of early Christian martyrs.

There is nothing the staff of an OFU could do to me that is worse than what happened to early Christian martyrs.

Trust me on this.

=]

[Headtilt] by Huinesoron on 2014-03-13 13:07:00 UTC Reply

Perhaps not... but they can certainly stop you experimenting with gunpowder. You do have to attend class, you know, and mini-Balrogs can be very persuasive. And they make very effective guards.

hS

Hm. by wobblestheclown on 2014-03-13 13:41:00 UTC Reply

Tell me, is there a class concerning the differences between book and film canons? Perhaps one taught by, say, Saruman? Or possibly Curumo, I don't really know the protocol in that regard.

Still, I can sell stuff to people. It's the one thing I'm any good at, besides being an unlikeable dick. The Wizards are Maiar in teacherly form; the only reason someone like me wouldn't be a damp red stain on the carpet in seconds is because of their policy of non-interference. I can likely spin it as a project to determine the exact nature of Middle-Earth-made longarms and their effect upon canon.

Plus, I'm fairly certain I can get everyone in the Gondorian faction on board. Men desire power above all else, according to various descriptions, and a mixed-arms unit would be a godsend against the forces of Mordor. Boromir'd want them because semi-static emplacements like jezzails and swivel-guns could defend Osgiliath extremely well; Faramir'd want them after he analysed how the Landsknechte fought and how a matchlock musket'd almost certainly punch through trollhide to get to the soft squishy bits to which fast-moving bits of lead are generally anathema. The Congreve rocket was not only a precursor to actual rocket artillery, but was also an incredibly effective means of scaring horses; that's a major selling point considering you can then rip apart enemy cavalry with your Rohirrim allies.

Actually, thinking about it, that's the best selling point of all. Gunpowder weapons, particularly early ones of the kind that, say, the Rangers of Ithilien might cart around with them, were as much terror weapons as anything else. They were loud and scary and bits of my friend are spiraling off in different directions and the sergeant doesn't have a head any more WHAT IS EVEN THE HELL.

My point is, by putting it like that to the Gondorian staffers and calling it an interesting experiment for the benefit of everyone else, I could probably get away with it if I kept my head down and stipulated that the Lady of the Wood was on no account to turn, if you'll pardon the use of a relevant Culture term that expresses my disdain for mind-reading, meatf***er.

No plans to deal with angry mini-Balrogs, though.

Yet. =]

Hmm. Not in OFUM 1. by Huinesoron on 2014-03-13 14:18:00 UTC Reply

I don't remember one in OFUM 2, but it's been a long time since I read it (and it's blocked here). There probably should be, though.

I agree that you could probably (eh, make that 'possibly') convince some people that gunpowder is worth having. Your main problems would be:

1/ The connection of the forces of evil with mechanisation. You'd have to hope no-one made the connection - and given that Numenor apparently had ironclads, there may well be a cultural memory that Weapons Which Go Bang Are Evil.

2/ Faramir would be a difficult sell, because he works in Ithilien. His job is to go unseen, so big heavy weapons which make loud noises and raise a plume of smoke would not be good for him.

3/ The OFUM staff are somewhat temporally ambiguous. Boromir talks (quite often) about being killed, for example, and Sauron has clear memories of being defeated. So you're trying to sell them on a war which is already over, probably. The only person you'd have no problem winning over is Sauron - and I don't think you'd like to do that.

4/ There's no way Galadriel's not going to read your mind on this one. She has ill-defined powers in canon, but in OFUM she can read your every thought, and regularly does so.

Outside the OFUM context, though, I think you've got the workings of a fantastic AU here. Maybe gunpowder is a secret held by the dwarves? If so, how would they use it - and how would Sauron react?

Bonus points for taking the story to Industrialpunk Numenor.

hS

Reminds me of the Grimdark Bilbo fic I once had. by Lily Winterwood on 2014-03-14 16:50:00 UTC Reply

The outside the OFUM context industrial AU, that is. Something about Bilbo staying at Erebor and the Ring sensing he is more powerful and thus exerting more influence over him, causing him to be corrupted and to get the Dwarves to make those industrial firearm weapon things to take over Middle-earth.

It didn't get far; I lost inspiration.
The smiths of the Naugrim are wise... by wobblestheclown on 2014-03-13 14:52:00 UTC Reply

It starts with the fire-lance.

The earliest blackpowder weapons weren't guns in the conventional sense. Rather, they were more akin to flamethrowers; basically tubes full of gunpowder on a stick that shot fire everywhere. There are a lot of places this'd be created, probably with mining safety as an original purpose (flammable gases and so forth), but the most obvious pick is Erebor. Think about it for a second: the Dwarves there remember the dragon Smaug, and some of the weirder ones are going to try and replicate that so-destructive dragon fire. They come across some powders that replicate the effects and, by very carefully creating a mixture of the best ones, arrive at something akin to gunpowder. The discovery spreads to the other Dwarf-holds, slowly but in time.

Now, fire-lances are all well and good, but they're not as good as they could be at killing Orcs. One dwarf who seizes on this terrible fire-spitting weapon and its potential is Balin, who uses it to take back the tunnels of Moria from Azog and his foul kin. The smiths in his service, and there are doubtless many because Dwarves, refine the process, initially adding shrapnel to the mix but eventually coming up against iron fortifications that are proof against flames. This is how the first of the gathol-karkal, or wallbreakers, comes into being. The first bomb, in other words.

Slowly, the fire-lances branch between those that use blackpowder as an accelerant and those that use it as a means of propelling sharp things at range. The goblin mind has a kind of animal cunning, and it realises that getting close to the dwarf-fire is bad news, so they become archers and slingers out of necessity. Even the strongest dwarf cannot hurl a throwing-axe with the same range as a bow, so they adapt some fire-lances for this purpose. Originally, these fire-bows launch spears and arrows, but the smarter dwarves see this is inefficient. Stones are carved into sphere and inscribed with runes of hatred and divine retribution, and crews set up to deliver these balls to goblins via wide-bore blackpowder guns.

These things, tubes upon a staff in the traditional design, are unwieldy in the tight tunnels of goblinfolk, so the design is shortened and the balls are made smaller, with but single runes of loathing carved on each. The firing mechanism improves from tapers to a slow-match, used often in candles to preserve them and grant light (torches around blackpowder being a Bad Idea). This is when the War of the Ring starts - because of this, the Dwarves of Moria are able to put up a much better fight against the Orcs, and the massed firepower of the matchlock musket means Balin is still King. Also, no worries about cave trolls because there are very few left with all their bits still attached.

Perhaps the Fellowship comes across these Dwarven warriors after Caradhras defeats them and they choose Moria. There, the battle is not yet lost, and Gimli gets his first taste of Morian powderwork. Gandalf's fireworks know-how will also come in handy; through analysis of them, he gives another terrifying weapon to Balin in exchange for safe passage. Perhaps this is where Boromir's redemption is foreshadowed; he sees the guns of the Dwarves as a symbol of power and pleads for the knowledge of firearms to be given to Gondor.

Perhaps Osgiliath does not fall either...

Meh. I'm just spouting conjecture at this point. =]

Impressive. by Huinesoron on 2014-03-13 15:28:00 UTC Reply

The idea of pinning most of the development on Balin's colony is a good one - it stops the technology really messing up history (though gunpowder predates the death of Smaug - Gandalf was already famous for his fireworks when he met Bilbo. Maybe it was the dwarves of the Blue Mountains - the exiles of Erebor - who tried to make weapons to match him, but only came up with fireworks?). And the knock-on effects of arming the Fellowship with firearms... ouch.

(And Galadriel sends an embassy to Moria when she finds out it's still occupied, and the technology spreads...)

hS

PS: "...our darts are like thunder and pass over leagues unerring." So said the men of Numenor.

Re: the PS... by wobblestheclown on 2014-03-13 16:02:00 UTC Reply

Y'know, that sort of self-aggrandising quote from the Numenoreans just makes me smile. There aren't cannons made with modern technology that have a range of seven miles, and if darts are taken to mean missiles, well...

There's a reason I talked about Congreve rockets as primarily a horse- and animal-scaring technique (I wonder how it'd work on trolls) and not as, well, rocket launchers. The long and the short of it is this: Congreve's weaponry was about as accurate as a Suefic's characterisation of Legolas. The use of loud noises to scare horses is well-documented in history (cf. the Khmer mounting massive gongs and bells atop war elephants) and the unguided missile is still more of an area-effect weapon.

That said, maybe the Numenorean rocket bombs were of a Hale-type design. These were a lot more accurate because of the way the rocket spun in the air. Incidentally, this is why rifled muskets are more accurate than the smoothbore variety, though they do require a bit more preparation and loading time. I'm fairly certain that the men of Numenor would have the wherewithal to create rifled gun barrels, too, so on reflection my earlier laughter was unjustified.

It's still arrogant, though. I mean, who do they think they are, elves? =]

I'll tell you exactly who they think they are. by Huinesoron on 2014-03-13 16:14:00 UTC Reply

"...they achieved... ships that would sail in the air of breath. And these ships, flying, came also to the lands of the new world, and to the east of the old world; and they reported that the world was round. Therefore many abandoned the Valar and put them out of their legends. But men of Middle-earth looked up with fear and wonder seeing the Númenóreans that descended out of the sky; and they took these mariners of the air to be gods, and some of the Númenóreans were content that this should be so." - The Drowning of Anadûnê

"Our ships go now without the wind, and many are made of metal that sheareth hidden rocks, and they sink not in calm or storm; but they are no longer fair to look upon. Our towers grow ever stronger and climb ever higher, but beauty they leave behind upon earth. We who have no foes are embattled with impregnable fortresses - and mostly on the West. Our arms are multiplied as if for an agelong war, and men are ceasing to give love or care to the making of other things for use or delight. But our shields are impenetrable, our swords cannot be withstood, our darts are like thunder and pass over leagues unerring." - The Lost Road

They are the masters of earth, land, and sea. They have ironclads, airships, skyscrapers and rocket artillery - they are living gods!

At least until they run into an actual living god. That... didn't work out too well.

But Umbar still has ironclads.

hS

QUICK, SOMEONE WRITE A LOTR STEAMPUNK AU. (nm) by Lily Winterwood on 2014-03-14 16:55:00 UTC Reply

Drabble time! by Huinesoron on 2014-03-14 17:20:00 UTC Reply

The Imladris banked hard to avoid the black flier's MOrGUL* missile. "Mithrandir!" called Lord Elrond through the pneumatic tube. "Fend them off!"

Below, Gandalf cried out in an ancient tongue: “Naur dan i ngoed!**” A blast of fire sprang from his staff, setting the flier’s fabric wing ablaze.

“We cannot outrun it; we cannot destroy it,” Elrond said grimly. “There is no more time. We must make a decision.”

The smoke was thick, and alarms blared across the airship. Frodo took a deep breath. “I will take the Ring to Mordor,” he said, “though I do not know the way.”

*Mordor Ordinance General Unseen Lance
**'Fire against the device!'

(Anyone else?)

hS

This is brilliant. by Lily Winterwood on 2014-03-14 17:33:00 UTC Reply

"Before we go in, Pippin, I must warn you not to say anything about Frodo and the Ring," said Gandalf quietly as they approached the Captain's quarters of the Minas Tirith. "Commander Denethor is a great man, but as of late he has fallen into the ways of folly."

"He's not the captain?" asked Pippin.

"The crew of this ship lost their captain to MOrGUL ages ago," replied Gandalf. "Since then, the first officer has commanded the ship, passing on the duties to their successors. The crew of the Minas Tirith await the return of their captain." He paused. "Do not mention Aragorn to him."

Pippin nodded. Gandalf considered him for a moment longer.

"Commander Denethor was also the father of Boromir. Remain silent on that matter as well." He paused again. "Perhaps it would be best to leave the talking to me."

To Rohan! by Huinesoron on 2014-03-14 17:48:00 UTC Reply

“What news from the North, Bikers of Rohan?”

The roaring steeds of the Bikers seemed to whirl of their own accord, until the three companions were encased in a wall of leather and brass, a thicket of spears sparking with electricity around them. At last, one Biker stepped down, and pulled off his tall helm to reveal golden hair.

“Who are you, and what are you doing in this land?”

“I am called Strider,” answered Aragorn. “I came out of the North. I am hunting Orcs.”

The Biker spat on the ground, then leant in to study Aragorn. “At first I thought that you yourselves were Orcs,” he said; “but now I see that it is not so. Indeed you know little of Orcs, if you go hunting them in this fashion. Their enhancements were terrible to look on, and only the lightning may tame them. But there is something strange about you, Strider.” He pushed up his goggles and frowned at the Ranger. “That is no name for a Man that you give. And your cloak – such reactive camoflague must be of elvish make. Are you then of their kind?”

“No,” said Aragorn. “Only one of us is an Elf. But we have flown in the Lothlorien, and the gifts and favour of the Lady go with us.”

The Biker looked at them with renewed wonder, but his eyes hardened. “Then there is a Lady in the Golden Fleet, as old tales tell…”

hS

And hopping back in the time line to the Shire: by Lily Winterwood on 2014-03-14 18:02:00 UTC Reply

Out of all the lands of Middle-earth, the Shire did not adapt to the new ways as readily. Rising from the wastes and ruins of the great kingdom of Arnor, whose cities had been toppled and whose airships had been blown out of the sky by the Enemy, the Shire was a bucolic return to the ways of the past, to green countrysides and pastures long forgotten.

However, this greenness was defended. A massive wall crafted from the rubble of the fallen cities of Arnor lay around the Shire, nicknamed the Old Forest by those who lived closest to it. From the walls of the Old Forest, the shirrifs defended the Shire and shot down any and all airships that tried to encroach on their airspace.

There were other cities that sprung up from the lost kingdom, but the illusory wonderland-fortress that was the Shire was one of the more well-known. The Hobbits of the Shire were known to be pacifist and isolationist; they chose to stay out of the ways of the wider world because it had no appeal to them.

However, that was soon to change, for there would come a time when Hobbits would shape the fortunes of us all.

Since I rather brought this AU upon you... by wobblestheclown on 2014-03-15 22:43:00 UTC Reply

It seems only fair I contribute.
---
"Where the engines of the Elves lie within and without the trees, where the engines of Men rise to the dome of heaven, the engines of Durin's Folk delve deep within the earth. It is our engines that were first in this Age of the world, and it is our engines that shall save it. So says Balin!"

"So says the King of Moria!" Frodo was nearly deafened by the throng of Dwarves at the great feast. There were more here than he had ever seen in his life; this was not necessarily a difficult feat, but it was a landmark event for the young Hobbit nonetheless. Idly, he stroked the old oak butt of Sting, the old Elvish hand-cannon that Bilbo had bade him bear against enemies. He looked down, and something caught his eye.

The serpentine-powder of Moria hissed in its horn, and the barrel of Sting shone blue.

"ORCS!" He cried, but the drums of war drowned him out. The goblins of Moria were streaming in, armed with vicious toothed blades (some made of actual teeth, probably troll) and the stolen hand-axes of murdered dwarves.

One roared louder than all, a pale beast the height of a man with but half an arm left, the rest replaced with a vicious hook. King Balin took one of his pistols, of the "axe-handle" design commonplace in Moria and of a larger bore than even the musket Sting, primed the pan with the finest powder known to the Dwarves of Moria, and created a light breeze where said foul goblin's pitiful amount of brains had once resided. The King threw his pistol to the loader and hefted an axe in his hand, sprinting forwards to meet his ancient enemies face to face.

Legolas's arrows struck home in short order too, and the sword of Boromir soon drank goblin blood. But Aragorn stayed with Gimli, who ran, seemingly, from the field.

"Strider!" Samwise bellowed after him. "Ruddy Rangers, thinking of nought but 'emselves. I've 'alf a mind to give him a bellyful of Gaffer's best lead!"

Sawise was, however, soon silenced, as were many. Aragorn and Gimli had run only to the end of the chamber, where there lay a great mound beneath a tarpaulin. The Ranger sucked the last dregs of pleasure from his pipe and upended its contents once his Dwarven host had dragged aside the curtain.

"Behold," cried Gimli, "the rocketry of Dwarves!"

The missiles were lit by Aragorn's pipe, and soon the goblin attack became an ignominious retreat. Dragonfire beat down their looted shields, and dwerrow-iron shrapnel, cast in the shape of runes of hatred, rent their flesh asunder with every detonating rocket. The goblins were eviscerated... but not yet beaten. Not quite.

"The drums, the drums in the deep place," said Pippin once the last of the rockets had exploded and the Fellowship had their hearing back. "The drums are getting closer! Gandalf, what do we do?"

"We fight!" Balin roared as he reloaded one of his pistols. "We fight as though sure of victory ere it should slip our grasp! What manner of foulness have they that can stand to the powder of Moria?"

Boromir, who had reached the doorway, looked around.

"They have a Cave Troll."

Also masters of bombast. =] by wobblestheclown on 2014-03-13 16:35:00 UTC Reply

But yeah, that's a really interesting point. Magic pseudo-steampunk flying dreadnoughts crewed with a well-drilled standing army... that still managed to lose, because Maiar OP nerf now. Perhaps this is where the dwarves get their weaponry ideas from, and why the men of Dale don't want them; their scholars still remember the fall of Numenor's men. When Sauron's forces of Easterlings approach, perhaps then Bard's great-grandson lays down the bow and picks up a Dwarvish ursunh-staff, complete with axe blade, and turns it upon the Third Age's fallen men...

WAIT WAIT WAIT. by Outhra on 2014-03-14 18:28:00 UTC Reply

The Númenóreans had flying dreadnoughts? Like, giant friggin' metal battleships that soared through the sky over their island fortresses and explored the far reaches of their marvelous fantastical world? Why is that not what people remember from Tolkien? The guy had the biggest influence on the genre of fantasy of anyone who ever lived, so why have I never seen fantasy works with three or four of those suckers fighting off a dragon? I mean, we see all sorts of better-than-you ethereal elven folk living in forests living forever unless they die in battle, and loads and loads of orcs mastered by ancient dark lords, but practically no flying battleships. That is an injustice! I want to see a full-fledged movie/animated series where we can see the Free Peoples of Middle-earth having a high-stakes airship battle with somebody! Let's check the Tolkien Gateway here to see some of Númenór's enemies... WHAT. They go to war with the Undying Lands? The last king of Númenór did battle with the Valar, presumably using all of his people's most advanced technology and resources to do so, and this is not the most well-known thing about Middle-earth? Fledge the months-long walking trip to toss some jewelry into a volcano, this is a fleet of massive flying royal warships going up against the gods themselves!

Okay, Huinesoron, I am officially with you now on Middle-earth being awesome. Everyone is just focusing on the wrong part.

[Applause] by Huinesoron on 2014-03-14 20:41:00 UTC Reply

The reason, sadly, is that both those quotes come from unfinished works that weren't published until the influence of LotR had become entrenched.

With ironclads, airships, thunder-missiles, and Alcarondas, the black-and-gold flagship, that is an even more epic fleet than I'd imagined. (So why does Alcarondas have sails and masts? Either Numenor never invented steam power, or it was a deliberate thumbing of the nose to the Eldar - 'Look, we have unimaginable technological power, and we can build sailing ships bigger and better than yours'.)

And how did the invasion end? The Valar dropped a mountain range on them. Or so we're told, by...

... by...

... well, by no-one, actually. The only people who could possibly have brought that information to Middle-earth are the Istari and Glorfindel. And I doubt they'd admit to anything other than 'yeah, the Valar crushed them like worms, so don't try it'.

So... yeah, you're right. It needs to be done. But can it be done in writing? I don't know - and since I can't draw, that may prevent me from doing anything with it.

Maybe it should be a game?

(One tragic point: there's no suggestion that their airships were metal. Though their sailing ships were.)

hS

Considering how different his deaths were in both versions, by Outhra on 2014-03-13 14:17:00 UTC Reply

I'd say Saruman would be motivated to teach that class. He'd probably have some strong words to say about the importance of falling action in a story and how it is not necessarily related to wizards falling from towers.

Parallel question: if not OFUM, which OFU instead... by Cyba Zero on 2014-03-13 10:55:00 UTC Reply

... and what would happen to you there?

Personally, I'd probably end up at OFAS. Luckily for the staff, lusting isn't in my nature, but they would have to cope instead with a veritable artillary of questions (and possible intellectual sparring in the form of debates). The brunt of it would probably be directed at the Borg Queen about her technology - if possible from just out of reach, but more likely I'd just get caught off guard and assimilated anyway.

In any case, I would give my all to the homework, because I like top grades.

/hops on next shuttlecraft to OFAS. by Lily Winterwood on 2014-03-14 17:02:00 UTC Reply

I get the feeling I'll fail anything about a canon that isn't TOS or Reboot, but I know enough about the culture and canon of those times to get through. Also, I know a bit of Vulcan.

Though I would try to do all of my homework since I am one of those kinds of people, and I would be following Spock (probably Reboot, though I do love Nimoy!Spock) around until Kirk, Bones, and Uhura and their minis have to convince me to let the guy alone. Probably by leaving me to the mercy of a Denevan Neural Parasite.
Royal Fanfiction Academy of Equestria by World-Jumper on 2014-03-13 16:10:00 UTC Reply

Much as I would hope to not end up there, it is possible I could crank out some badfic. If I did go there, I would hope I would treat the situation with respect for the staff members, and do all of myhomework, and...

...Oh, who am I kidding? I'd try to hug Fluttershy, to converse with all of the ponies, look for the Doctor's TARDIS...(He actally is fairly well canon at this point. In a very recent episode, we see Doctor Whooves run by, 3-D glasses on and Roseluck following right behind him.) You get the idea. I'd probably establish the Solar Empire to defend our grand Princess Celestia from those Luna-worshiping dogs. Or, more likely, pull pranks against the New Lunar Republic folks, and watch would-be assassins of Celestia get assaulted by mini Discords.

So, basically, I would be just like most fanbrats, but with more respect and class. At least I won't be trying to sleep with anypony.

*Dynamically enters room* by SeaTurtle on 2014-03-13 19:44:00 UTC Reply

*Sprains back*

So you're a big Celestia/Solar Empire fan eh?

Perhaps I can tempt you with the idea of a United Equestria? I never was a big fan of the entire Luna ~~BEST PRINCESS~~ vs Celestia thing. Cooperation and unity is where it's at, man.

Oh, I've always been United Equestrian. by World-Jumper on 2014-03-13 21:39:00 UTC Reply

I just like Celestia a little bit more, and honestly, it's kinda fun to mess with New Lunar Republic folks.

I do think the princesses should work together, and I like Luna enough, it's just... What has celestia done to deserve so much hate? As silly as the Solar Empire can get, the New Lunar Republic is outright rabid with their hatred of Celestia. I have heard more then a few rants on how clearly Celestia is a tyrant who rules over Equestria with an iron hoof, and the only reason we don't see the world as the dystopia it truly is is because she has, I don't know, mind control or something. She is a monster who threw her sister onto the moon, for daring to raise concerns on how the country is run. I just... Ugh. So, due to these Luna nutjobs, and genuinely liking Celestia more, I sometimes hang out with the Solar Empire crowd.

Besides, I think you'll find that most Solar Empire folks are like minded to me. Only a few think that Luna is still akin to Nightmare Moon, and that those who like her are shrouded in darkness, blah, blah, blah. Still, that's just my experience. For me, and most others, the whole Solar Empire VS New Lunar Republic is really just a hammy, over the top way of saying which princess you like more.

Raise the Sun!

Good points. by SeaTurtle on 2014-03-14 07:03:00 UTC Reply

Besides, I do know some Luna fanatics and they're... yeah, like you said. Celestia being a merciless tyrant / cruel monster? Gimme a break.

You wouldn't happen to play Dark Souls, would you?

Praise the Sun! \[T]/ by World-Jumper on 2014-03-14 20:32:00 UTC Reply

...And by that, I mean I have never played Dark Souls before in my life. I've heard about it, but I never played it, and probably won't for a while. Sorry, I just don't have the time for it. However, I took a look at some videos, and... Wow. That looks like a game I would really, really get into if I let myself. However, to understand who that strange man praising Celestia was, I desided to look him up. I watched this video to understand, and oh my God, I love this guy. He is kind, chivalrous, and honestly, quite funny at times. I was so sad when I saw that he goes mad later, and you have to kill him. I am thrilled that there is an option to save him from his madness, and I refuse to think the game ended any other way.

...Dang you, you got me hooked on a game I have never even played!
Haha, Dark Souls! by Cyba Zero on 2014-03-14 14:44:00 UTC Reply

I've started playing that. Oh, the amount of times I see 'Praise the Sun' scrawled about the place - particularly after bosses or near bonfires.

How far have you got through it, SeaTurtle? I've just had the - um - 'pleasure' of having to fight Smough and Ornstein. Urgh, horrid bosses.

And yes, that sprang to my mind immediately after reading the last line of World-Jumper's post too.

I wish I had the game. by SeaTurtle on 2014-03-14 19:08:00 UTC Reply

Alas, I have neither the consoles nor the rig necessary to play the game. I have a dinosaur of a PC that can barely hold itself together at the moment, so I'm holding off on buying any new games in case of total computer meltdown.

That doesn't stop me from watching ~~extended fail sequences~~ playthroughs of the game!

Dark Souls by Cyba Zero on 2014-03-14 20:03:00 UTC Reply

Well there are mods to make it more PC (keyboard and mouse) friendly. I play it using keyboard and mouse, although I agree getting the game to actually work and with usable controls was about as much of a challenge as playing the game itself (which I suppose is actually kind of fitting).

Of course, Dark Souls 2 is now in the works, and is purportedly better designed for PC players.

I MADE A MINI! D: by World-Jumper on 2014-03-13 21:45:00 UTC Reply

OH NO! HOW COULD I DO THIS? Come here celestia, here's the portal to RFAE. There you go.

Whoops.

I'd join hS's gang in the library. by Cassie on 2014-03-13 10:21:00 UTC Reply

I love OFUM - it's what led me to the PPC in the first place, and I'd really just want to try to learn. A chance to be tutored by all the characters, and therefore get it done properly (especially Elrond)? YES PLEASE.
The only thing to do: by doctorlit on 2014-03-13 07:17:00 UTC Reply

Learn. Honestly, I'm kind of embarrassed by my lack of Tolkien knowledge compared to the rest of this community. I've read The Silmarillion, The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings, but it's just too much to get my head around . . .

So yeah. I would put myself into the school work and learn as much as I could about the world, so that I might actually be able to write a PPC mission in it someday . . .

As for minis, I would prefer a more obscure character's misspelling, like Tom Bombadil or Radagast. Or maybe a location mini.
/wanders into the library by Lily Winterwood on 2014-03-13 07:04:00 UTC Reply

I'm the walking Tolkien encyclopaedia amongst my friends, so I imagine I'd actually do the homework. I'd take this as a unique opportunity to learn Sindarin and Quenya, and I would probably stalk Lindir/Figwit and Arwen.

I joke about majoring in Elvish Studies at OFUM with a minor in Hobbit and Dwarvish Studies, but truth be told I would probably pursue this at OFUM because I'm insane like that.

Also, I would adopt one of the Frodo minis.
Graduate! by Al's Waiter on 2014-03-13 06:32:00 UTC Reply

I WAS at OFUM. I went back for a second year too; different major.

Can you find me? I made two cameos!

~AW~
Hmmm... by Kittyhekatty on 2014-03-13 02:16:00 UTC Reply

I guess I would attempt to adopt a Gandalf food creature, actually do homework. Maybe the mini Frooodo would adopt me.

Would there ever be a continuation of OFUM because of the recent Hobbit movies?

Hey, a mini-Boarder! by Lily Winterwood on 2014-03-13 07:01:00 UTC Reply

That being said, I know Miss Cam has said she wanted to write a Hobbit Special with the movies out and all, and I've borrowed her Bilbo and Smaug for a crossover lecture at MBSFA. So yes, Hobbit characters are at OFUM, and there might be a continuation (if we can distract Miss Cam from Once Upon A Time long enough for her to write it, that is).

Speaking of OFUs... by Kittythekatty on 2014-03-13 07:11:00 UTC Reply

Are your OFUs still on FF.net or are they on AO3? I was wondering if updates were taking place and I was unaware.

And hey! My first mini-boarder! What do mini boarders look like?

Well, originally... by Huinesoron on 2014-03-13 08:33:00 UTC Reply

... they looked like this:

That's Hinesoron, the first mini-Boarder to be acknowledged as a mini. He soon acquired a brother, Hunesoron, and someone drew them together like this:

The terms 'mini-Boarder', 'mini-Agent', and 'mini-Author' were used pretty much interchangeably.

hS
I'm assuming they look like you, but smaller? by Lily Winterwood on 2014-03-13 07:12:00 UTC Reply

They're on FFN still, and don't worry; I haven't updated.
You're likely to know via Tumblr anyway since I post links on there to the FFN chapters.

*join's hS's collection of Boarders in the library* by Ailavyn Siniyash on 2014-03-12 20:23:00 UTC Reply

Also I would try to find someone to teach me at least one of the languages, because I've been wanting to learn for awhile.

-Aila
I would start a kitten fight. by y2k890 on 2014-03-12 19:28:00 UTC Reply

Afterwards I would do homework.
I already have a mini-Balrog. by Neshomeh on 2014-03-12 19:11:00 UTC Reply

Arasgorn. Adopted from Miss Cam via the old OFUM mailing list, no less, though I was too late to the party to actually participate in OFUM or OFUM2. Alas.

As I recall, I wanted to join the Society of Not-As-Obvious Lusters as the next-best thing to a group of people who admire platonically without lusting at all. I was (and am) a huge Aragorn fan, but I never wanted to jump his bones, because ew, he looks like he's old enough to be my father and is old enough to be my grandfather. Do Not Want. >.
No, what I wanted was to be his apprentice or something. I wanted to go on the most awesome camping trips through the most awesome country and ride horses and learn wilderness survival and herbal remedies. I wanted to be a Ranger.

In practice, however, I would probably avoid the hell out of anyone I recognize, because I have a tendency to be reduced to a gibbering idiot if forced to actually talk to people I admire. I would be such an attentive student, though. Like whoa.

What would I do first, though? Stop panicking, pick my jaw up from the floor, figure out where all the important rooms are and how to keep track of time, and go exploring. Wait for me, hS! I'm coming, too!

~Neshomeh
Find Saruman... by wobblestheclown on 2014-03-12 15:44:00 UTC Reply

And help him blow the entire complex to kingdom come. Then do much the same to every other OFU I could find before people started to notice a pattern.

I'm not a fan of the ethos of an OFU. They just feel like internment camps for people who aren't as au fait with a novel as someone else. Attendance is a punishment for liking a series while not being a good author, and that appalls me.

Re: Find Saruman... by Pippa's Ghost on 2014-03-14 19:51:00 UTC Reply

Based on what little I've read of OFUM so far, I'll happily join you in tearing the place down.

Maybe I'm biased because I just plain don't like school stories (not even supposedly good ones like Harry Potter or Waterloo Road), but OFUM seems like a one joke comedy that outstays its welcome pretty quickly.

Worse, it seems to be based around nothing but hypocrisy. You have Miss Cam, a blatant Sue (even named after her creator) who freely twists the canon out of all recognition, and makes everyone act totally out of character, and then repeatedly tells students not to create blatant Sues, twist the canon out of recognition, or make anyone act out of character. Has this woman ever heard of double standards!?! But never mind, she knows how to use a spellchecker, so apparently that's all right then!
Not quite. by Huinesoron on 2014-03-12 15:48:00 UTC Reply

It's a punishment for trying to write for a series while not being a good author. It's not like attending is compulsory - every OFU has their students fill out the paperwork first. You can just not sign - but as OFUM taught us way back in Chapter 1, 'You cannot pass - until you have passed.'

Also, that's a bit like saying 'I'm not a fan of the ethos of medical school. It's like punishment for wanting to heal people without being a good doctor'. It's not punishment - it's education.

Through pain. No one said it was nice.

hS

Why am I reminded of "pour encourager les autres"*? by wobblestheclown on 2014-03-12 16:19:00 UTC Reply

OFUs are merely an excuse to tell people "you suck and we're going to cause you physical harm until you stop sucking", which, considering the ban on torturing Sues in the PPC, is perhaps against our ideals. The use of 'fangirl' as an insult (putting aside the inherent sexist overtones) denigrates people who are more excited about a series than we ourselves are under the pretext of "standards" - standards which we don't always reach ourselves (cf. the grammatical mistakes in pretty much every PPC fic, including the Original Series). Besides, I don't see the point in calling something an official fanfiction university since fanfic is by its very nature unofficial.

Also, it's not a bit like the analogy you used. Medicine matters; fanfiction does not. At all. Let's not kid ourselves. OFUs deliberately treat people as second-class citizens on the basis of how well they write ancillary fiction concerning nine+ people on a team-building exercise in New Zealand. That disgusts me.

*(("The beatings will continue until morale improves" wouldn't fit in the subject bar.))

Er... by Huinesoron on 2014-03-12 16:36:00 UTC Reply

... are you aware that every 'fangirl' who appeared in any OFU was a volunteer? In OFUM itself, you run across people like GreyLadyBast and AW (who's back around on the Board these days). They're not real people Cam decided to make fun of - they're real people who signed up to be made fun of.

people who are more excited about a series than we ourselves are under is an interesting interpretation of 'fangirl', and one that's totally wrong. I can write in Quenya, Sindarin, and (given a little time) Primitive Quendian; I have a website devoted to obscure Tolkien trivia; I've used an Elvish name for over ten years; tell me again I'm not excited?

'Fangirl' is used to refer to the extremely large numbers of, yes, girls - virtually all female (when I joined the Board, there were about 200 members - 5 of us were male) between the ages of, oh, 13 and 20 - who considered Legolas the hottest thing ever, and thought that was the only thing that mattered about LotR. They were not fans of the films - or the books - they were fans of their particular lust object.

In many OFUs, you will find students who signed up despite being, say, PPC agents - my own OFUDisc has at least four. They get no preferential treatment, except insofar as they rarely get caught trying to sexually assault people, because they have better self-control than that.

But all of that is beside the point. No-one actually goes to OFUs - they are stories. In the world of the stories, fanfiction matters as much as medicine does in the real world. If we don't accept arguments like that, then we can throw the PPC out the window (Mary-Sues don't actually hurt anything, so killing them is murder), along with... well, all of fiction. Sauron can't actually hurt anyone in the real world, so Frodo shouldn't have killed him.

You can't condemn fictional characters for treating their fiction as important. That's what they're for.

hS

That's a serious question, by the way. by Huinesoron on 2014-03-12 17:51:00 UTC Reply

Rhetorical (probably), but not sarcastic. Since the PPC does pick on people('s writing) when they aren't aware of it, I'm not sure how clear you are on this.

Also: it's important to note that most OFUs are written from the POV of a student. Lina Holling is a Legolas fangirl; we're not sitting in Miss Cam's office laughing as people get tortured, we're being beaten up with the students themselves. Otherwise, they would be very different stories.

(I think, by the way, that at least one PPC Future AU has mentioned the dubious morals of the OFU system. I forget which, though)

hS

Totally unaware, as it happens. by wobblestheclown on 2014-03-13 12:29:00 UTC Reply

I still don't care for OFUs as organizations, but I'm sort of okay with the excesses being applied to volunteers. Well, less utterly disgusted, but w/e.

This is a peculiar bit of doublethink for me to indulge in, considering my love for old Tom And Jerry cartoons and the violence within them. I shall have to analyse this in greater detail. =]
((Plug on hS's mention of OFU Dubious Morals)) by SeaTurtle on 2014-03-12 18:55:00 UTC Reply

((Thirty Years Hence, set during the Sundering timeline.))

Oh, strewth. by Huinesoron on 2014-03-12 13:54:00 UTC Reply

Well, I'd definitely (try to) do the homework: Netilardo showcases my attempt to do something of the sort (I might try my hand at the essays handed out in OFUM sometime... hmm). I'd probably sign up for classes with as many Noldor as I could find, and would definitely spend a lot of time in the library.

Apart from that, I'd probably mostly stay as quiet as possible. Well... other than keeping a lookout for any First Age staff members (who aren't Morgoth). And constantly trying to sneak out and look around the world in general - I mean, who wouldn't?

I rather suspect there's going to be a little huddle of PPC Boarders in the Library, planning our next move... that might actually be worth writing. I'll see who else chimes in. Muaha.

hS

One more for the library club! by Techno-Dann on 2014-03-13 03:11:00 UTC Reply

Probably alternating between there and the foundry - making things is awesome.

(And I have a mini-Balrog to my name too - Gothmorg, mini-King of the mini-Balrogs!)
I've been wondering this for a while. by Outhra on 2014-03-12 21:19:00 UTC Reply

I was planning on asking during the next Tolkien-themed thread, but now seems as good an opportunity as any.

Is there anything about the Lord of the Rings universe that you don't like, Huinesoron? Or anything that you think could have been handled better, or something that you wish could have been explored in the stories but never was due to either strange choices by the author or the direction of the plot, or any aspects of the storytelling that you thought weren't the best? I see you talking about its virtues and hidden depths all the time, but I don't believe I've ever heard you imply that it was imperfect in any way other than "If only Tolkien wasn't dead, he might have been able to answer this question!" Very few people see any work of fiction as entirely without fault, after all, and you seem well-informed enough in the world that I'm pretty sure that you have at least a few comparatively negative opinions.

Sure: Turin. by Huinesoron on 2014-03-13 10:40:00 UTC Reply

He's probably Tolkien's favourite character, he takes up huge chunks of the Silmarillion, Unfinished Tales, and History - and has his own book - and I honestly can't stand the guy. He's supposed to be a sympathetic character, I'm certain of it, but I just... can't empathise with him at all.

I realise he's supposed to be cursed, so that all his choices turn to ill, but Morgoth needn't have bothered. When we first meet adult Turin, he's an adopted son of the King of Doriath - the most powerful non-Morgoth person in Middle-earth. And what's the first thing we see him do? React to his mother being insulted by, a) physically assaulting the culprit, and b) when said culprit tries to get even, stripping him naked and hunting him through the woods. He then refuses to place any trust in his foster-father, and instead runs away to become a bandit.

And everything Turin does is like this. His only reactions to problems are to hit it, or run away and change his name. Why does Nargothrond fall? Because Turin had a bridge built so he could hit things better. And so on.

Seriously. I would give up ever having heard the name of Turin for a prose-length version of the story of Beren and Luthien, but for some unknown reason, Tolkien preferred the idiot.

And yeah, there are other things. I've commented recently on Legolas' vision, which apparently sees round corners. And I can never bring myself to look forward to Book 4 - Frodo, Sam, and Gollum taking a walk. I like it when I'm reading it ("Look, Sam, look! The king has got a crown again!"), but leading up to reading it always drags me down.

Oh, and: I wish Tolkien had actually been able to finish anything. There are so many brilliant stories which are only half-written, because Tolkien got distracted and moved onto something else. Valar preserve us, man, sit down and write, won't you?

That answer your question?

hS

Seeing round corners by Pippa's Ghost on 2014-03-14 18:54:00 UTC Reply

Legolas, like all Elves, exists in both the Seen and the Unseen Wolrds; the Round World and the Flat. How could they sail the Straight Road if they didn't? That's how he can still see Orodruin along a straight line, even though the world is now round (and how Galadriel can collect light from Earendil's Silmaril even though its been replaced by the planet Venus.)

Well, that's my pet theory anyway. (Although it still doesn't explain the prohibition on Numenoreans sailing westward out of sight of their homeland, when there was no curvature of the Earth to block the view!)

And I like Turin. As a fictional character, anyway. He's so wonderfully flawed. But I'd probably hate him if I met him in real life!

Sounds fun. by Karen DuLay on 2014-03-12 18:31:00 UTC Reply

I can say with certainty that if I were at OFUM, I'd join the huddle of Boarders. Also hello. Guess who's back.