Subject: Re: Hmm
Author:
Posted on: 2014-02-21 00:41:00 UTC
By 'comics' I don't mean the Teen Titans comics that the animated series was based on, but the Teen Titans Go comic. The issue in question is over here http://comicsttgonline.blogspot.com/2011/01/ttg-48-wrong-place-wrong-time.html
Folks, I have a confession to make.
I ship Holmescest. In very specific, 100% consensual both of them are over 19 and with buckets of angst circumstances.
For those of you who have no knowledge of Sherlock Holmes, Holmescest is the (really obscure, and also derided on the Wikia) ship of Sherlock Holmes with his brother Mycroft. Not at all existent in ACD (except for one or two stories that WILL NOT BE MENTIONED *takes bleeprin*), it is mostly between BBC!Mycroft and BBC!Sherlock. Especially because of the 3rd season, which when one is wearing shipping goggles goes into very holmescesty territory.
So the point of this is: this ship, and a few others, are derided on the Wikia as being a source for mountains of badfic. Well, not derided, because the only mention of holmescest is mentioning Mycroft's tendency to become the token homophobe (which I haven't actually noticed... usually in Johnlock fics he's ships with Lestrade, which is an entire other bucket of fish), stating that we don't want to go there.
Now I know that incest can definitely be triggery, but I've read good, genuinely emotional and well written stories where the paring is Mycroft/Sherlock. (example, THE SENSE OF GUILT by TheWritingKoala over on ff.net)
Not only that but I've also written a few holmescest fics myself.
So, the question is, should rare/obscure/semi-cracky/weird ships like Holmescest be derided, or should they be respected. I just want a discussion, that's all.
Smaug/Bilbo is still wrong. There is a line people. A LINE.
I touched upon this briefly but I think I need to explain myself. I ship anything from canon (Aang/Katara), to the rare (Lancer/Saber), to the downright crack (Yumichika/Tatuski). But still have rules about it. 1 I don't get mad at people for not shipping the same things I do. 2 They have to have something in common. ( Eg Yumichika and Tatski are both good fighters, value their independence, while still being loyal to their friends.) 3 The story has to show devolpment and the two charcters cannot hate each on sight.
(pries Tatski the mini-Menos Grande off of the ground and examines it)
Do you want to keep this one? According to Google, their chief food is souls, and I am in very short supply of ectoplasmic or protoplasmic commodities of any sort.
Sorry. For whatever the reason I can't spell the name of Orihime's best friend correctly.
I used to ship Uchihacest back in the day (not one of my proudest moments considering back then I couldn't distinguish Good fic from bad). I'm really not one for incest now but some of my guilty pleasures are problematic ships. It doesn't bother me as long as there's enough context between two characters in canon to create a solid and interesting dynamic. What does bother me is when I see shippers trying to put themselves on some arbitrary moral high ground by defending and/or erasing problematic aspects of a ship.
Well, if we go by lesser-known canons, then I'm fond of Reinforce/Yagami Hayate (Lyrical Nanoha) to an absurd degree, but in very specific circumstances because there is a massive age difference that could lead to a very bad place very quickly.
In better-known canons... I must agree with the pairing of Starfire/Raven mentioned earlier.
There's also the ship of Raven/Killowatt, an EXTREMELY minor character in the animated series (he doesn't even have a voice actor), but who gets an issue devoted to his backstory in the comics, where it turns out he was a superhero in an alternate dimension, who got in some kind of trouble and called out for help psychically. Raven heard and managed to summon him into their dimension, and even when they find a way to send him back she's still psychically linked to him.
Hey, remember that episode where Raven *Spoilers* lets the dragon out of one of her books thinking he's the knight? *spoiler* Yeah, I'm pretty sure it was Starfire who made her feel better about that one. And all the guys were like "eh, we don't really... eh," and paid like zero attention to the fact that she was all shut up in her room and up to something.
By 'comics' I don't mean the Teen Titans comics that the animated series was based on, but the Teen Titans Go comic. The issue in question is over here http://comicsttgonline.blogspot.com/2011/01/ttg-48-wrong-place-wrong-time.html
a)well-written
b)do not glorify unhealthy relationships
And by unhealthy I don't mean incest, I mean abusive relationships. Although I am very easily squicked by incest because I have a sister I am very close to. Holmescest doesn't as much because my relationship with my sister isn't like their relationship, but like, Elsa/Anna from Frozen? *shudders*
My rare/obscure/cracky/weird ships...
(warning: lots of Star Trek)
Data/Geordi - but to be honest,I only consider it rare because it's not the top pairing for Data and it should be the three that are more popular I dislike in varying degrees. (One of them is twincest and another is Data/Mary Sue.) And I'm really not sure why people don't want to ship the guys who cosplay Holmes and Watson.
Taurik/Lavelle - from the TNG episode "Lower Decks". Vulcan and human roommates - it's like a Spirk TNG ensigns AU.
Jadzia Dax/Lenara Kahn - from the DS9 episode "Rejoined". Oh gods that episode was heartbreaking. I know Jadzia/Worf eventually becomes a canon thing, but I can't help but wonder what would happen if they kept Lenara on.
Icheb/Q Junior - from the Voyager episode "Q2". Q Junior is brought down to human to punish him for being callous about lower lifeforms, and the moment when he reforms is when he accidently puts Icheb's life in danger. Plus, straightlaced ex-Borg and teenage god of mischief, how is that not great?
Jason/Nico - from the Heroes of Olympus series. Don't actually know how popular it is, but it's not canon and I don't care. Nico needs a happy ending, godsdammit, and wouldn't it be a twist if the Aphrodite girl needed no man?
(also just found their tag on Tumblr, yes I needed this)
That's all I can think of. But yes, ship what you want, just do it well.
Frozenlock will be the death of me.
That's pretty much my outlook too. Although this rule hasn't stop me from shipping weird pairings like Switzerland/Veitnam for hetalia and Yumichika/Tatski from bleach
I have a few I've never even seen people write.
Saphira/Temeraire for reasons I refuse to declare
Motoko Kusanagi/ Archer(EMYIA) because I don't know.
Assuming we let Saphira grow up into a much more mature dragon / removed Paolini's influence, I can see that working. And I'm planning to actually read Temeraire soon!
I always figured that Temeraire could provide the more mature influence for her. He is more than capable of it when he needs to.
Letting her grow up too much might be a bad idea, though. Since Paolini dragons get bigger as they age.
And that goes for Smaug/Bilbo too. It goes for any and every ship going. No exceptions. YKINMK, people, do try and remember that.
As for my own pairings, Amy/Ace is a favourite of mine. There's no fics of it to my knowledge, but I can dream. In point of fact, I do. They are happy dreams. Sometimes they are dreams in which ice cream is involved.
Also at the cracktastic end of the spectrum are the following:-
Raven (Teen Titans animated series)/Skitter (Worm)
One is a teenage girl who was subjected to a campaign of horrific bullying by her peer group, one of whom REALLY should have known better, and manages to be a hero after a false start or two. One is a teenage girl who is the literal spawn of a demon and fights against that in order to be a hero and save people, with the occasional blip. I like to think they've got a little common ground.
Hermione/Tonks
Tonks didn't die. She lives somewhere safe where Remus can snuggle her and love her and SHUT UP WITH YOUR LOGIC
Kaname Madoka (Puella Magi Madoka Magica)/Haruka Tenoh (Sailor Moon)
I didn't cover this in the previous ship because Tonks is not dead shut up shut up shut up, but I've kind of got a thing for more platonic ships that enable other ships. With this one, it's Madoka/Homura being enabled by the canon Uranus/Neptune; Haruka's guidance allowing Madoka to accept that she and Homura love each other. Which they do. You cannot prove otherwise. They will eat ice cream together and sit on some swings and it will be adorable.
Agent Wobbles (PPC)/The Sugar Puffs Monster (Sugar Puffs cereal commercials)
... I got nothing.
And I need to go catch up on Worm, really...
The story is complete. Blood rained from the heavens and I may have fangirled all over the place.
Bilbo ends up being a virgin sacrifice in most of those things.
Here you go. TW for dub and non-con and mind-bending distortions of Canon. Also, NSFW. Probably NSFB too.
I have once read and sporked a horrendous Smaug/Bilbo fic involving magical date-rape dragon blood and Smaug being a dragon shape-shifter. He turns into a humanoid form suspiciously like that of Bendydick Cumberbum's.
However, I'm fairly certain Smaug/Bilbo could be done right if you 1) somehow explain how Smaug is even alive considering the point of The Hobbit is to get rid of him so the Dwarves can get their mountain back, 2) research reptilian reproductive systems, and 3) figure out something about that ungodly height difference.
Me? Smaug and Bilbo should move in to Bag End together and solve all the crimes of Middle-earth. Or maybe that's just my Sherlockian speaking.
...but I have collected some rare or slightly cracky ships. Like Susan Pevensie (post-Last Battle) x Maglor. Because Reasons.
Also there's Lark/Rosethorn, which I shipped before I knew it was canon. (Tamora Pierce's Circleverse)
And, from the version of The Ramayana we read in Humanities class, Tara/Vibishana, 'cause they're both intelligent, genre savvy, and surrounded by idiots.
Other than this, I mostly just ship what's canon, unless it's really idiotic. Oh, and Doctor/TARDIS supersedes all other pairings.
-Aila
(I've no clue how I forgot them.)
-Aila
I originally wasn't going to make them get together, but after popular demand took a closer look and was like okay, fine, yeah.
Lark/Rosethorn was so clearly a thing I knew it was a thing before they got out of the first book.
I also shipped Tom & Carl (Book of Night with Moon/Young Wizards series,) long before it was pointed out that it was a thing. I think it was them bickering over the electricity that got me. :D
Wait, you ship Doctor/TARDIS?
I DO TOO ;)
this is fantastic, I thought no one else saw it.
The Doctor's Wife isn't my favourite New Series episode only because Neil Gaiman wrote it.
My thing with them is that they're more than just romance--it's every kind of relationship we know of and several we don't mashed together. Friendship, siblings, rivalry, parent-child (both ways, but mostly the TARDIS as the parent), prized possession, romance, some Gallifreyan terms we don't have words for, etc... I manage to ship them in all those ways at the same time, because their relationship is incredibly complex, incredibly longstanding, and utterly unique.
-Aila
To use a Vulcan term, they are T'hy'la.
But like, beyond. It's fantastic. You have inspired me to write fic.
As soon as RL stops being so crazy (yay end of second semester ninth grade!)
And ooh, a fellow ninth grader! (At my school, we have trimesters. So there's still a couple of weeks to go before we get to the end of part 2.)
I've never inspired anyone other than myself to write fic before. It's sort of a warm bubbly feeling. I quite like it. Write it!
-Aila
Bunny and Raffles (Raffles stories by E. W. Hornung): it's canon as you could get with the time period, and it's got some extremely rough patches... but part of the point is that although Raffles is not always a good person, he attempts to be good to Bunny.
Eowyn and Faramir are my favorite LOTR pairing, hands down. I don't see a lot of fic with them, though.
From Recess, T.J. and Spinelli. Actually, I don't see them as staying together romantically, but I see them as dating for a while in middle and high school, breaking up then being each other's go-to person the rest of their lives.
Teen Titans gives us the SisTP of Raven and Starfire (seriously, there needed to be more alien ladies bonding on that show,) and BumbleBee/Cyborg, which I really shouldn't have to explain, because they are the sassiest couple ever.
Oh, and Lyall/Biffy of The Parasol Protectorate,, but the entire fandom ships them. It's just a tiny fandom. Also, Madame Lefoux + I don't even know, but she desperately deserves better than her life has given her so far. She needs a strong woman who won't lie to her or attempt to steal away her son.
Chemistry and Biology: Wait, there isn't a natural sciences fandom? Too bad, I've spent my entire college career shipping them, I'm not going to change my ways now.
How far into the books have you gotten? Have you read the Finishing School series yet?
... Been doing Thesis this year. That's my excuse for everything fandom related, really. :D
I've finished the original series all the way through Timeless, though.
Finishing School is quite good; the second book in that series just came out, and I actually find it a little easier to read than Parasol. But I agree, Biffy/Lyall is pretty awesome.
And canon, pretty much
Well, you know. Strong possibility thereof. And it's not like Gail Carriger doesn't ship them too, so happy endings are likely. :D
I suppose we'll see when the Prudence books finally hit print.
... I can actually see that. Now that you mention it, I can see a lot of potential shipping/relationships between various fields of study.
History/Political Science - The OTP. Sure, they don't always get along - History thinks PoliSci can be a bit too career focused, and PoliSci considers History to be stuck in the past - but at the end of the day they'll always come back to each other.
Law/Medicine - The two workaholic overachievers. Also, Law is PoliSci's older brother. (Relatedly, History has two siblings: logical Anthropology and adventure-loving Archaeology.)
English/Art - The culture-obsessed freethinkers. Constantly breaking up over the smallest things before getting together again the next day.
I think I'll stop there before the anthropomorphizing goes to my head.
My friend is a Biochemical and Music double major.
Now that makes me wonder if that is how you express your ships for academic subjects...
At my school, international relations is shipped with history, political science, and economics. It's pretty complicated.
Also, Chemistry/Biology/Physics is the uber-OT3.
Archaeology can be shipped with classic languages, religious studies, anthropology, history, and with womens and gender studies.
But now and will look them up.
You are awesome.
If we're going by the definition that "rare and obscure" means "relatively unknown". I've got my share of almost-canon pairings that nearly no one remembers and would defend them to...well, to nausea.
Or are more unknown ships even more fun to ship, because you a) get a bazillion more feels b) get to initiate people into the shipping of these ships.
And while I feel like Holmescest (and a lot of other -cest ships) have a higher badfic potential because of its sensitive territory, I no longer feel so strongly against it.
I have seen a couple Mycroft-as-homophobic-jerk fics, but they aren't as popular as the Mystrade fics, so that may be an outdated observation which is, of course, not so much the case now with Season Three painting Mycroft as subtly supportive of Sherlock and John.
My opinion now is to ship and let ship, and I'll edit the BBC Sherlock wiki page to reflect that.
That was one of the first articles I read, and I remember agreeing on the -cest category. Honestly, my opinion was drastically changed because of an ethical debate I had a few months ago in History class.
I'm sorry if I seemed too upset?
And ship and let ship, honestly, is the best policy I can think of. Because, shipping is srs bsn.
I know this is a bit silly, but I was worried that my permission request (when it happens, eventually) would be denied because my shipping of that.
*shifts awkwardly* yeah...
I remember making it a couple months after season two came out.
And I don't think people on here judge your ships unless you write them out of character. We only honestly care about how well you keep them IC in the fics.