Thank you very much (more spoilers)

Subject: Thank you very much (more spoilers)
Author: Phobos
Posted on: 2013-09-09 13:33:00 UTC

Part of the reason I went the way I did with this story is because we'd never seen the PPC in defeat. It had splintered, yes. It had fought armies and itself. But when it came down to it, they still got the job done when it was over. So I felt there was an envelope worth pushing, there. I'm glad it worked as well as it did.

As to the references, I wish I had remembered the Disorganizer. That's the reason Jingo is one of my favorite books in the series. And I see your point about the list. It is something I might fix later, since I need Nesh to actually do that.

The Hippie Sequoia scene did reference a couple of things, but the Star Wars EU was not among them, because I have no knowledge beyond the movies. Before the Gandalf quote, the Sequoia actually combines two Star Trek quotes, which is fitting, given her job.

I'm surprised, with your mention of Jingo, earlier, that you didn't mention the other oblique Discworld reference. "Operation Sweeper" was, of course, named for a little man with a broom who mucks about with time, when it is absolutely necessary.

I am very glad that you enjoyed this. It was, at times, both a joy to write and very difficult to write. The dream sequence, in particular, still makes me choke up, and I wrote the thing.

The next part will likely be a little while, due to other irons in other fires. But I might write a few more short stories to flesh out some details that were unimportant to the main story, but I think are pretty interesting.

-Phobos, destroyer of worlds

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A plug by Phobos on 2013-09-08 19:30:00 UTC Reply

As some of you know, I have been working on my own future story for the PPC. It made its first appearance two months ago during the Monthly Writing Challenge with the short story "Catastrophe Theory: Bound and Gagged". Well, I have been hard at work finishing up part one of the main story and it is finally time to unveil it.

I give you: "Catastrophe Theory: The End Is Nigh!"

The future ain't what it used to be.

-Phobos

Ouchie. This quite of a bad future. by Sergio Turbo on 2013-09-16 21:54:00 UTC Reply

And you killed off Corolla.

Now, both Sergio and Nikki aren't in the PPC anymore by then, but I guess they would discover what happened anyway (If Sues didn't attack where they are, that is) but ooh, boy. They're gonna to be pissed off.

The fact is...

SPOILERS

Sergio is a Stu who more or less reformed on his own... and suffered the loss of several friends already. Suffering some more at the hands of Sues, especially after he retired... it's snapping time, especially if the Sues somehow manage to get Nikki too.

And if he snaps, it will be something along the lines to wear a black cloak, a Crysis-verse nanosuit and a Just Cause-verse grappling hook, dual wield a lightsaber and a Patriot from Metal Gear-verse, and allow a Sueness relapse... in order to fight the Sues with their very own methods. 'Cause by then he would be enough insane to make such a thing work.

"If only a Sue is strong enough to kill another Sue... Then I will become one to kill them all."

You are correct. by Phobos on 2013-09-17 03:58:00 UTC Reply

That is a bad future. It is, in fact, the worst that I thought I could get away with in the PPC.

I like your idea about Sergio purposefully relapsing to get revenge. I think it fits in really well with the world I've laid out here. I honestly don't know where Sergio and Nikki are in this future. They may be dead, or Sued. Or, they may have gotten out before the initial invasion and subsequent occupation. If that is the case, they very probably can't get back in. They might fight the Sues in the Word Worlds looking for a way in, or just to do what damage they can.

That is up to your imagination.

-Phobos

All the obvious comments have already been made by Tomash on 2013-09-15 06:02:00 UTC Reply

, so I just wanted to say that this was great.

Thanks, Tomash (nm) by Phobos on 2013-09-15 16:34:00 UTC Reply

You're welcome (nm) (nm) by Tomash on 2013-09-15 18:16:00 UTC Reply

I just discovered your source! by Huinesoron on 2013-09-11 13:12:00 UTC Reply

Oh, you thought we wouldn't find out, didn't you? You thought your secret plagiarism was safe? But no! We see all! Behold!

Time Compression

Yes, you, Phobos, have been filthily plagiarising from the writing genius known as 'Patron PPC Demi-Goddess', one of the most famous writers of FanficLand! The ideas are all there for everyone to see: a character in the future of the PPC, HQ wrecked, the Sues taking over, someone being sent back in time... oh yes, your secret is will and truly out.

hS

(Yes, I'm joking. ;) It's an entry to the Badfic Game from back in 2006, I don't really think you've plagiarised it. Although if the, uh, 'Sunclover' shows up in your story... ~hS)

Interesting by Phobos on 2013-09-11 16:35:00 UTC Reply

Yep. You caught me. I stole it all from the Badfic Game. I never expected anyone to look there. But I've been caught. Whatever shall I do?

Nah, I was actually unaware that 'Patron PPC Demi-Goddess' had written such a story. If I'd known, I definitely wouldn't have made mine so similar. Just look at these two sections:

From CT: The halls of HQ had seen better days. Walls were crumbling and covered in Suvian graffiti. Doors lay broken on the floor, if they were there at all. Piles of debris littered the hallways. Sparks shot intermittently from breaches in the Generic Surface. There were occasional stains on the floors and walls, in a variety of colors and levels of sparkle, that were best not to speculate about.

From TC: Things were looking bleak now. What once was had been reduced into a mockery of a head quarters. There wasn’t a place where you stepped that was not covered with something. Blood. Fertilizer. Debris and sliced wires, lost limbs and poured guts. Sparks were flying out every once in a while from the wires that were hanging loose from the ceiling. Broken glass and plaster crunched underfoot.

Really similar stuff. Eerily similar, you might say. I mean, did you notice the abbreviations? CT and TC? I smell a conspiracy.

Actually, I imagine they had some of the same inspirations that I did. There's nothing inherent in the setting that is new and different, after all. Pretty standard for a post-apocalyptic future. The big difference is, I think, in the fact that they (GreyLadyBast, I assume?) were attempting to write Badfic (should I worry that my story is so similar to intentional badfic? I'm not sure).

Anyway, interesting find, hS.

-Phobos

I actually don't know who it was. by Huinesoron on 2013-09-11 16:47:00 UTC Reply

That's the only chapter of the only story she ever wrote, and I don't seem to have noted down her username in the source code like I tried to do. I would have assumed Bast - it was 2006, so I guess she was still around - but it could also have been whoever was behind the Dark Canine God Kit (my memory's saying Teena?), or simply someone coming up with a suitably Badficcy name. It doesn't read like Bast, at any rate.

But yeah, 'HQ is smashed and someone should go back in time to fix it' isn't a particularly unique concept. ;) I think the reason CT feels like TC - and Triple Prime and Trousers didn't - is that you and PPDG both described the broken HQ. Part of the 'bad' in this badfic is that it was written to be UltraDarkSerious, which we try to avoid in the PPC. Any section of an actual fic which takes a dark and serious approach to something is likely to spark off similarities with something on FfL.

hS

Has to be Keily. by Neshomeh on 2013-09-11 18:02:00 UTC Reply

Her main agent was Keily Shinra, who was a notorious Clover-luster, and Boarder!Keily was a big Flower-shipper, IIRC. I don't think anyone else would have come up with the "Sunclover."

~Neshomeh

Main problem with that... by Huinesoron on 2013-09-11 21:32:00 UTC Reply

... is that Keily was Flowergirl of the HQ in that same year. I'm moderately sure we didn't have people using multiple names way back then. Hrm.

...

All right. It's two hours later and I'm drowning in websites - but we can do this.

The following 'authors' participated in 2006 and can be identified (mostly by my naming them in the source code ;)):

Zephyr's Fire - Starwind Rohana
Huinesoron - Huinesoron
Flowergirl of the HQ - Keily
Kryska the Christian - Kaitlyn
OuRlOvEcAnTrAnScEnDtImE - Err...
gutsygemiwrya - Twiggy
xxPPCpRiNcEsSgUrLxx - Gillespy
kippur - kippur

The following wrote about or named themselves after a specific non-NPC character, and so are probably their creator:

ErinsEvilTwin - named for Erin Mirestone, so probably Laureril
Spufie42 - wrote about Gammut and Debris, so probably Spoofmaster - and the names match
Janetsgurl - named for Janet of Janet and Cygna, so probably Cygna Hime

SorceressGurl and Purple Raine both wrote about Suicide, Diocletian and Ithalond; either of them could be TungstenMonk. I'd lean more towards the latter, since Suicide was a designated Hott Man, while Ithalond wasn't.

The following are unidentified, but wrote stories:

SparklyStarPrincess382
Patron PPC Demi-Goddess
Slashforever
Haunted Sinner

The following only left reviews:

kiwigurl528 - possibly gundamkiwi
brandywine_baby89 - Neshomeh
MistressofTheSea002 - unknown
veetvoojagig - unknown
Ainu Laire - unknown

There are a handful of Wayback Machine-copied front pages from 2006, with one in May, one in September... by going through those, can you make any guesses as to who the unknowns were?

hS

Uhm, wasn't around back then, but.... by Sergio Turbo on 2013-09-12 11:32:00 UTC Reply

Any chance "Patron PPC Demi-Goddess" could be GreyLadyBast?

I'm laso a bit curious about Cygna Hime and her Agents, though, being the only one who did card Captor Sakura missions before I joined. Information about her Agents is very scarce, considering they don't even have their own pages and the missions were recovered by Wayback Machine or something like that.

From what I can see... by Huinesoron on 2013-09-12 13:44:00 UTC Reply

... via the Wayback Machine (you have to give the old Board address - disc.server.com/Indices/199610.html), Bast had already left by that time. I can't find anyone in that year who springs out at me as a candidate, either...

As to Cygna-hime... well, from looking at old front pages I can tell you she was a fan of both Narnia and Lord of the Rings (she uses 'Ai!' as an exclamation); that she was writing Sakura PPC in late 2005; that she was also an MSTer; that she... had political opinions (she replied positively to a post titled 'I think much better of [US Democratic Presidential Candidate] Kerry for this...', but so did Rath, who was I believe a Republican-leaning Utahn - actually, an earlier thread has her seeming to be somewhat left-wing, but this is pure conjecture); and that she was around as far back as 2004.

As for her agents... well, they have about two missions, plus a four-chapter badfic. You can probably at least extract character descriptions (we have a lovely badfic-y description of Cygna: 'Cygna lifted her eyes to the mirror. She looked at her wavy crimson tresses and saw a carrot-colored, frizzy horror; looked at her emerald orbs and saw pale green eyes; looked at the delicate spattering of freckles on her nose and saw a horrible disfigurement.'), but obviously the plot is irrelevant.

hS
Dang it, it's also, not laso. by Sergio Turbo on 2013-09-12 11:34:00 UTC Reply

And wanting to catch some other Boarder with a lasso would be kinda rude.

Brilliantly written! by Cyba Zero on 2013-09-10 10:22:00 UTC Reply

I thoroughly enjoyed that. All these future timelines at the moment are so fun!

I think most of the best points have already been mentioned, but I think it is very interesting to see the PPC actually lose - it shows they are just as vulnerable as any other character (and hence are not 'Sues). I also find it interesting about the 'Sues being able to forcibly convert non-'Sues - always a nasty tactic. I am thoroughly looking forward to part 2.

One little thing - Eagrus' full name is Eagrus Khan, so this Eagrus Kahn must be mini-Agent...

Thank you! by Phobos on 2013-09-10 15:53:00 UTC Reply

The future is always a fun canvas to work with because it isn't set in stone. Who knows what any of these characters are going to look like in 10 years? I don't. I just like to play with the possibilities.

I knew this couldn't be perfect. So, thank you for pointing out the mistake in Eagrus' name. It has been fixed.

-Phobos

Ye gods, Phobos. by VixenMage on 2013-09-10 08:11:00 UTC Reply

This was good. Really, really good. You set the tone very well - things just feel desperate, very nearly hopeless, in a realistic and not-overdone way. Even if the POV characters aren't quite at the end of their ropes, knowing how far down this is from the PPC 'present' sets the reader in a very dark place. It's hard to fully express - the imagery and thought of HQ being so utterly destroyed, unsafe on a permanent level/timeframe is very, very unsettling. Somehow this managed to be more deeply devastating than Emergencies, or even the Crashing Down stories (though it might be that I haven't read those in too long). It's like having a dream of your childhood home (or some comparable safe space) eating you alive, or something. Especially the thing where - I don't quite know if this was intentional, though I assume it was - the hallways aren't the whimsical "don't think about your destination" sort of way they usually are. It's... bleak. And it does that job very, very well.

Less bleakly, I look forward to a continuation! If you're doing one? Which I assume you are. Hope you are, anyway.

I'd also managed to completely forget that you were using Jof here, but I'm glad he worked with the story, and thank you for the use and characterization and such.

And little fishes? by Phobos on 2013-09-10 15:41:00 UTC Reply

Please tell me there are little fishes!

Anyway, I am glad you liked it. You saying that it "managed to be more deeply devastating than Emergencies" is high praise. Thank you.

And, yeah, the distinct lack of whimsy was intentional. Everything is broken in this future.

Don't worry, the continuation is coming. This part was all the backstory that needed to be laid out in order to write the story that I originally wanted to tell. Stay tuned...just not soon. I haven't even started writing it, yet.

-Phobos

Re: Story by doctorlit on 2013-09-10 00:13:00 UTC Reply

Super exciting! I love seeing a super dark and deadly What-If; I especially love seeing one that can be prevented. This will give Oopart some serious work to do back in the present timeline. (Back in the present? What?)

The thing that really makes the Department of Resistance feel unified and cohesive is the huge amount of cameos you threw in. It really makes this story feel like a (possible future) culmination of the last few years' worth of PPC writing.

Also, I need to take a moment to be disproportionately egotistical. When I saw Doc's name in the list of dead, I was like, "Yeah, he would get pwned pretty hard." Then, when you mentioned the Sueified characters, I felt like Vania would wind up in that group, and figured that would be the end of my cameos. AND THEN I got to the Council at the end and was like HOLY CRAP one of my dudes IS LIKE MAJOR and then I spent about two hours trying to imagine how Vania wound up there.

. . . Uh, so yeah. Thank you for that! It really made my day. I think I'd like to explore what happened to my agents in this timeline eventually, once you have your main parts finalized. Lots to do in the present in the mean-time, though.

Glad I could make your day! by Phobos on 2013-09-10 03:22:00 UTC Reply

I agree with you on the cameos. I needed a quick and dirty way to show how many the PPC had lost, as well as how the survivors were doing, and cameos were the best way to make that happen. It also allowed the story to connect on an emotional level that just saying "we lost more than 3/4 of the PPC" never would have.

I'm glad I had you speculating about where Vania was. That was the point of not telling anyone who's names were behind that curtain. I wanted to give people's imaginations enough freedom to fill in the details. So, this is exactly the kind of response I wanted this story to get.

-Phobos

Interesting stuff! by Herr Wozzeck on 2013-09-09 23:02:00 UTC Reply

I especially liked the building up of the setting. That's some masterfully paced dread-stuffs there. I certainly wouldn't want to be caught there, and the fact that there's a sense of ever-present danger helped a lot. Yeah, masterfully done dread-stuffs is always awesome.

I also like Oopard as a character: he's wracked by guilt, he's in a life of danger, and he's being selected for a mission that he doesn't really know even the half of. His lot is kind of sorry, and I do hope he succeeds in his mission since he seems like a nice enough guy. I'd especially love to see his reaction to meeting agents he knows from the future well before he ever met them, but... y'know.

Sorry, I'm probably not saying anything particularly helpful about this writing, but I loved it! So... Yeah. It was great.

(P.S. I'd be kind of interested to know how Eusabius got that scar, IMO.)

Glad you enjoyed it! by Phobos on 2013-09-09 23:39:00 UTC Reply

"Masterfully paced dread-stuffs"? I like it.

As to Oopart, I'm glad the guilt came through. That was kind of an important thing, for me. Whether he succeeds or not is going to have to wait until Part 2, I'm afraid.

Also, if you want to know how Eusabius got that scar, you might eventually get a chance to find out. Just not from me, probably. Once I have finished the story, I might open up the timeline to other interested people, with my permission and some additional information to keep things consistent. It would all have to be set between the start of the invasion and the end of The End Is Nigh!, of course. Some people will want to have a say in what happened to their agents, and this would be a chance to do that.

-Phobos

Oh mai... by Herr Wozzeck on 2013-09-10 00:03:00 UTC Reply

I think I might know what it is Eusabius is humming while scratching that scar...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APeEUfUCDVk

*twirls non-existent moustache*

Fantastic! (spoilers) by the Irish Samurai on 2013-09-09 21:22:00 UTC Reply

I've read this several times now, and I think it's brilliant.

It was very interesting to read about a situation where the Sues actually won. The occupation of HQ would be a major triumph for them, even if they couldn't achieve total victory. I thought you did a very good job of protraying just what it would be like for the agents living through the occupation, there were a load of nice little touches like the food getting even worse, as well as the dangers that they faced - particularly that one section of the Lists.

I'm looking forward to seeing what Oopart gets up to next (and of course, hoping to find out if the Potted Fern Official ever finds true love - although that does seem somewhat unlikely now...)

Alas, poor Amy. I knew her well.

(Oh yeah, and thanks for making Skeet such a badass - that was cool)

The future sure ain't what it used to be.

Thank you by Phobos on 2013-09-09 21:51:00 UTC Reply

You and Nesh were such a huge help during this process. It would not be as good as it is without the work you two put into it. Thank you.

And about Skeet being a badass, that was a direct result of your comments and suggestions. And it turned out better than I could have expected. Skeet makes a brilliant foil for Oopart, especially at the end.

Now, the PFO's love life is not something I had planned on discussing, but since you asked...I'm not touching that with a twenty-nine-and-a-half-foot pole.

-Phobos

Glad I could help :) by the Irish Samurai on 2013-09-11 12:39:00 UTC Reply

As for Skeet at the end, well, I think the scene you wrote is far better than the stuff I suggested.

I am deeply impressed (spoilers) by Huinesoron on 2013-09-09 12:23:00 UTC Reply

You are much better at writing a defeat/resistance scenario than I've ever been (which is why I've tried to avoid it in my own Histories on either side). You manage to evoke both fear and determination in Oopart's movements in the first part, and then follow it up with an extremely realistic (if I can use the term) portrayal of how the Department of Resistance might work. Jof's contribution is ingenious, and I was genuinely moved by the Tomb and the Lists.

I noticed a whole heap of both explicit references ('Why we sing it we don't know/We can't make the words rhyme properly!') and what appear to be 'inspired by' sections. Two in particular caught my eye. First, Oopart's reading of the List was similar to Vimes' Disorganiser in Jingo, with its final list of 'death of [Name]... death of [Name]'. Actually I think you missed a trick here - the impact of that list would have been greater if you put Lux's name right at the end, as a sort of climax (if you'll pardon the pun). I think if it ran as it does, but ended with 'Zim. Otik Horak. Luxury.', it would drive home the emotional point (that no-one is safe just by being a long-term character) even better. (I'm not sure this actually was an 'inspired by', but it evokes the same feel)

The other reference I picked up on particularly was the Hippie Sequoia's sacrifice/defence. Okay, he quotes Gandalf, but that's not what I mean. I'm thinking of the actions of Jedi Master Ood Bnar during the fall of Ossus, in the Star Wars Expanded Universe. He, too, turns himself into a rooted tree with the knowledge that it will kill him, in order to save something of greater value to him than his life.

And... well, if you are referencing/inspired by that, it might be a good idea to note something of the sort in your disclaimer. We recently read the account of the Cassandra Claire Plagiarism Debacle, and not noting that she'd taken whole heaps of quotes from other sources was one of the catalysts for that. Kaitlyn says that she had a whole file of Cassie Claire quotes saved - with no knowledge at the time that most of them weren't hers.

You're no Cassie Claire (thank the stars!), and the Sequoia's scene is very powerful in its own right, even without knowing the (possible) inspiration. But if you've done a similar thing in other places, it would be nice to know about it.

Okay, enough twitchy!hS. I liked 'Don't like, don't eat'! I also thought you did very well with the attack, but also with the little things: lines like 'She was not one of the lucky ones.' are very powerful, because you're evoking the common idea that 'The ones who died were the lucky ones' without actually saying it - because it doesn't need saying, because your audience already knows that.

And that ending... very well-paced, very suitably disastrous. Like I said - I'm impressed! And the little details (such as the perpetual watermill) keep on coming, even when the plot speeds up. So all in all - well done, and I can't wait to see the next part.

hS

(PS: Once The Trousers of Time, Triple Prime and Catastrophe Theory have more written about them, I think we definitely need a non-canonical collision of all the different time-travellers and their associates... ~hS)

Thank you very much (more spoilers) by Phobos on 2013-09-09 13:33:00 UTC Reply

Part of the reason I went the way I did with this story is because we'd never seen the PPC in defeat. It had splintered, yes. It had fought armies and itself. But when it came down to it, they still got the job done when it was over. So I felt there was an envelope worth pushing, there. I'm glad it worked as well as it did.

As to the references, I wish I had remembered the Disorganizer. That's the reason Jingo is one of my favorite books in the series. And I see your point about the list. It is something I might fix later, since I need Nesh to actually do that.

The Hippie Sequoia scene did reference a couple of things, but the Star Wars EU was not among them, because I have no knowledge beyond the movies. Before the Gandalf quote, the Sequoia actually combines two Star Trek quotes, which is fitting, given her job.

I'm surprised, with your mention of Jingo, earlier, that you didn't mention the other oblique Discworld reference. "Operation Sweeper" was, of course, named for a little man with a broom who mucks about with time, when it is absolutely necessary.

I am very glad that you enjoyed this. It was, at times, both a joy to write and very difficult to write. The dream sequence, in particular, still makes me choke up, and I wrote the thing.

The next part will likely be a little while, due to other irons in other fires. But I might write a few more short stories to flesh out some details that were unimportant to the main story, but I think are pretty interesting.

-Phobos, destroyer of worlds