Subject: BTW, I really want newbie and lurker opinions.
Author:
Posted on: 2013-08-28 15:59:00 UTC
If you're a newbie, or if you lurked for a long time before your first post, would this have helped you? If not, what (if anything) would make it more helpful? Please be specific! I can't address or work with what isn't put into words.
If you're currently a lurker, of course we'd love to hear from you, too. {= )
Any other opinions are also welcome and needed!
~Neshomeh
I've been thinking for a while now that the FAQ: For Newbies (and maybe FAQ: The Board, too) could use a section on how to go about introducing yourself, since I've noticed that lots of newbies' first posts are essentially some variation on "Hi, I'm new and I don't know what to say, so I hope this is all right." Updating the FAQ obviously won't help anyone who doesn't read said FAQ, but I think it's worth doing anyway. Here's what I'm thinking:
Main article: FAQ: The Board
It's easy! See above for more information about the mechanics of the Board and some of our customs and etiquette.I think this looks like a good addition. I remember when I first joined the Board I was a little unsure of what to say, but managed to work it out by looking at what other people had said, and what responses they got. Having something like this would have made that a whole lot more convenient for me.
One other thing that it might be worth adding to the Newbie FAQ somewhere is the fact that we don't encourage people to tell badfic authors about sporkings. I'm sure I remember seeing a few posts (I think one may have even been an Intro post) on the Board along the lines of 'I've found this badfic so I let the author know that it'll be PPCed soon'. The FAQ for Other People says that it's not something that we do, but on my (admittedly quick) scan through the current Newbie FAQ I couldn't see anything telling the newbies that it's not sort of thing we do - so it might be a little unreasonable to expect them to know that.
I'm also not completely sure that the current order of the points in the FAQ is the most useful. In my experience, the longer a document is the less likely it is that everyone reading it will actually finish it. Given that, is the difference between a Division and a Department really the most critical bit of knowledge, that one bit that we want to make sure every Newbie sees? Personally I think this 'On Joining' section should be first (if it were to go in near the bottom then I think there's a good chance that it won't end up being read by the people that need it most), probably followed by the bit on Permission before we start going into details on Standard Operating Procedures and PPC Tech. Some of the sub-points in Miscellaneous are probably important enough to warrant a higher placement as well, although I agree that the Misc section should usually be last.
I was planning on putting this section first, and I think I can rearrange a bit while I'm at it.
I'll see if I can slot in something about not threatening authors, too, because that's important.
~Neshomeh, off to do that now-ish.
Sorry for hijacking this post, but since you mentioned editing a PPC article, I believe that this is as good a place as any to ask: What's the progress on your edits to the Mary Sue article on the Wiki? Last I checked, it seems that nothing has changed yet.
I wouldn't even call it a hijack, really.
The plan is to complete the re-write before I make any edits to the article, so I can update it all in one fell swoop. As to why the writing is taking so long, frankly, it's haaard. [/whining] I... don't really have a reason other than that, I'm afraid. It's an important thing, it needs to be just right, and therefore it's a bit of a chore. It will get done, though. I won't abandon it.
Thanks for asking, by the way. It does help to hear people say they care. {= )
~Neshomeh
I'm just not very good at saying things on threads like this.
If you're a newbie, or if you lurked for a long time before your first post, would this have helped you? If not, what (if anything) would make it more helpful? Please be specific! I can't address or work with what isn't put into words.
If you're currently a lurker, of course we'd love to hear from you, too. {= )
Any other opinions are also welcome and needed!
~Neshomeh
who read through the various FAQs, I know that I would have appreciated something like this. I remember that my first post was a badfic report, which was largely ignored in the shower of newbie gifts.
Especially given that I'm one of the few who usually pester newbies with the standard questions, I think that having these questions on the FAQ would be a good idea.
(And it would allow me to more efficiently empty out this Pokemon-Trainer-issue bag of holding!)
Are there any standard questions I've missed, or non-standard ones you'd like to see added?
~Neshomeh
I seem to remember that I had seen the first four questions (plus "Do you intend to ask for Permission") somewhere on the Wiki, but probably in an unexpected place, because I couldn't find them again and had to work from memory when I prepared my introduction.
I ignored "What's your favorite spin-off?" because I hadn't seen this actually asked on the Board and really didn't want to answer it. I liked so many stories for so many different reasons.
What helped me most was the "don't bother to set up an account" in the FAQ: The Board, so I could avoid all the problems DemonFiren and TopHatOfDoom had to go through. But it took me some time to realize that I didn't need to tell my Email address with my Boarder Name for posting without login. I really wouldn't have liked this.
So, the most basic advice for getting started on the Board would be:
- Don't bother to set up an account.
- Don't try to login on the Board.
- Just think up a Boarder Name which you then enter as 'Author' whenever you post on the Board.
- Don't enter your 'Email' unless you want to receive a message when somebody replies to your post.
I'm not sure whether this should be said under What's the deal with this Board? How do I post on it? to have all the basic advice On Joining in one place, or whether people should be encouraged to do some further research by following the link. After all, they have already started to do some research and found the FAQ: For Newbies.
HG
What if we put the most basic advice about (not) signing up in both FAQs, but perhaps go into how to create an account for those who really want to in "FAQ: The Board"? That way additional research isn't necessary for someone just reading "FAQ: For Newbies," but the information is available under the most logical heading (I think, correct me if you disagree) for anyone who feels moved to go looking for it.
So, I'd rewrite "What's the deal?" as follows:
Main article: FAQ: The Board
It's easy! You don't have to create an account or log in to use the Board, and in fact, we advise you not to try. The YourWebApps account creation and login processes can be temperamental, and there aren't any particular benefits to going through them that we know of.Did you get an Email? I don't know, I never filled in my address.
I wonder whether to start a new post, simply click the "Post Message" button... can be reworded to make clear that this is not the button to start a post which is intended to be a reply? But this exceeds my foreign language skills, so I can not suggest anything.
So yeah, just filling your address into the Email space means you'll get notices when people reply to that particular post. Good to know.
Hm, I'll give that some thought. Thanks!
~Neshomeh
This looks to be fairly handy. I know it took me forever to find the board. Maybe a few words on how to make an account (disable your spam filters, etc. etc.) might be helpful. I know I had trouble with that.
But otherwise, this looks to be very handy. (Wish I'd seen this a week before it was posted...)
... who'd be interested in a "how to make an account" bit. More on this in my reply to Graubart above.
Thanks, and sorry I didn't get around to this sooner.
~Neshomeh
And it would have helped, I remember agonizing over my first post.
The only thing is that some people still don't read the materials. I mean, I read the materials because I was terrified of making a mistake, but some newbies don't. (Which confuses me, but whatever.)
Yeah, this is definitely aimed at people who agonize and want to Get It Right. People who aren't worried or don't care, well, won't care.
~Neshomeh
I think this would be really useful. I definitely know I was hesitant to start posting on the Board.
Is there anything else you would have liked to see in something like this that I've missed?
~Neshomeh
Giving people a few ideas about what to say in their first post is an excellent idea. :D
Of course, some people still wouldn't read it, but it's good.
Assuming people will read this, it'll simplify stuff for the newbies. Plus, it'll force me to actually think about my welcome messages.
You could take over bumper-sticker distribution, perhaps. It's an old tradition that I've only carried on sporadically, and it deserves to be brought back. {= )
Thanks!
~Neshomeh
I actually think I like the more freeform method of introduction. Creating a process makes it seem more cold and impersonal.
The last thing we want on the Board is to be cold and impersonal, but I don't see how what's outlined in my proposed section is significantly different from what happens naturally anyway, save that (hopefully) it will allow fewer people to feel uncertain and confused while doing it and may therefore encourage some people to introduce themselves sooner than they would otherwise. I'm not intentionally creating a process that doesn't already exist (i.e., post on the Board to introduce yourself, tell us a bit about who you are). Can you please clarify what you're seeing as problematic?
~Neshomeh
Not really sure why I wrote that, actually. I think it might have been intended to respond to something else (although I can't imagine what), and wound up in the wrong tab?
I mean, if you actually do have a concern it's important to make yourself understood—otherwise it can't be addressed. But if it was just a goof, no big deal.
May I take it that this section in the FAQ wouldn't have helped you personally? Looking at your first post, you seemed to have all your ducks in a row. {= )
~Neshomeh
The benefits of lurking... ;]
It IS meant to cover how to join, and the first sub-section says how (by posting here). What are you referring to, if not that?
~Neshomeh
...is instructions on how to set up an account. Some may have trouble with this.
That's already covered here, in the second paragraph. In brief, the best advice we have about setting up an account with YourWebApps is "don't bother." If lots of people really think it's necessary to know how, though, we could probably put it in. Not me, though, because I've never made an account and I don't want to.
That whole section could probably be re-written to be more linear and clear, actually. Anyone feel like taking a crack at it?
~Neshomeh
Neshomeh, what do you (and the rest of the Board) think about adding a section or a piece of the 'Posting on the Board' section about how some basic html works on the Board (such as bold, italics, underline, strikethrough, links, and maybe font size as well)? This is something I really wanted to know as a newbie, and something that I periodically forget if I've been away long enough. It might be nice to have it somewhere in the Board FAQ rather than in people's memories and notes. I know most of those html codes (with some help I could probably even make up a more complete article, for anyone who wants stuff like proper dashes) and there's been at least one recent post giving alternates. Do you think this is worth doing?
~DF
I think we could definitely include basic code like bold, italics, strikethrough, and links—and I do like my proper dashes, too. {= ) We may want to simply provide an external link, like Outhra suggests, for more complicated stuff that people shouldn't need to use very much.
W3Schools Online is currently my favorite site for HTML and especially CSS reference. Here's the HTML reference list.
This is handy for finding the code for characters such as dashes and greater/less-than signs, as well as just about anything else you can think of. You can find all that on the other site, too, but it's in a single list here; on W3S it's split up.
Hope that helps!
~Neshomeh
Someone helpful(I think it was KittyNoodles) showed me this guide within my first few weeks of my entry onto the Board. It covers external links, bolding, italicizing, posting images, changing text color... basically the basics. No command for image resizing, or strikethrough, or a few other bits, but the basics.
It would be probably helpful to link to in the FAQ, or at least as a place to harvest basic html codes for copy-pasting into the FAQ.
...I can say without a doubt that you most certainly have a point about it needing to be rewritten. I mean, it's reasonably clear, but it's far from easy to read, and some of the details could get lost fairly easily. Added to that, it rambles a little. And what all that's leading up to is that yes, I feel like taking a crack at it. I'll post a draft here for approval once I've got one.
~DF