Subject: I caught that too.
Author:
Posted on: 2013-02-24 19:35:00 UTC
And giggled about it for a while.
Subject: I caught that too.
Author:
Posted on: 2013-02-24 19:35:00 UTC
And giggled about it for a while.
We've all heard about the occasional sneaky reference in a film - George Lucas famously put some version of THX-1138 (the title of his first(?) film) into most of his works, Spielberg put C3PO and R2D2 into Indiana Jones as hieroglyphs, and Pixar apparently loves to hide references in their films.
But what about books? It's not as easy to sneak something into the background there, where every word is, y'know, a word.
But it happens anyway. And it's awesome. So let's share the ones we know of!
(I'm not including - necessarily - things like Discworld books referencing other things. I suppose we could list every outside reference in, say, Witches Abroad, but... no. I'm asking about the sneaky references you don't expect to be there, and half the time you miss. I'm also not thinking of the 'might be a reference' things - Harry Dresden says 'Stars and stones', which sounds like Gandalf's 'Seven stars/And seven stones/And one white tree' - but more the bits that sneakily say 'Yeah, this totally exists in my universe - in one way or another')
Well, sort of the flip side... if these are the moments we see other worlds in a book (or game), then what about the moments we see this one?
I call these 'Welcome Back' moments, probably after the line at the beginning of Tomb Raider... Three, I think? 'Welcome back to my humble abode. Feel free to take a look around...'
I think of these not just as the point you realise you're back in a world you've visited before, but the moment it feels like - well, like the canon's welcoming you back. I never had one for Portal, for instance, even though I dearly love Portal 2. There isn't one for me anywhere in Discworld, either.
Actually, I only have two I can think of - and they're both in films.
1/ Star Wars. Any of the films, or even the books - but that moment when the first words come up:
A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away...
That's when I know I'm back.
2/ The Hobbit film. The moment about a minute and a half into the soundtrack where it first samples the Shire theme has this effect on me even on the CD. And seeing the Shire itself again... yeah.
These aren't just 'yup, here again' moments - they're the moments where it feels like the canon is saying, "Welcome back... we missed you, too, and I know things have changed, but... we're still here.
Does anyone else get this (or even understand what I'm saying)? Any examples?
hS
It's right when you leave the first "dungeon" in Skyrim, and get your first good view of the world now that you're free to interact with it as you please. My initial reaction to that was "Yeah, I'm back in Tamriel."
DawnFire said the Star Trek: TOS titles, but while I love TOS, that's not the Star Trek that welcomes me in. The titles that welcome me into the Star Trek universe are the Star Trek: TNG ones. Something about that triumphant music and Captain Picard's rich voice just make me feel at home. Voyager may have the prettiest theme, in my opinion, but it's TNG that touches me. This probably goes back to a story my parents tell. They say that they would watch TNG when I was maybe one or two years old, and so I'd sit on the floor playing with my toys for most of the episode. But when the opening sequence came on, I would look up and watch the screen intently. Then as soon as it finished I'd go back to playing. So perhaps that opening sequence is ingrained in my subconscious as something wonderful.
And Star Trek: TNG is the only fandom that gives me such a strong welcome back feeling.
And what you said about the Hobbit movie reminded me of a sort-of related phenomenon: realizing that a new installment or new adaptation really is part of the fandom you know and love. The 2009 Star Trek movie was one of of the first "Star Treks" I saw, but after a while I'd nearly forgotten it, being too immersed in TOS and TNG and eventually Voyager. Then I rewatched it, and it felt so different, so sleek and "modern" in contrast to the '60s TOS and even the '90s TNG. At one point I even said "This isn't my Star Trek". It didn't feel the same to me. Then the new Dr. McCoy said "Dammit man, I'm a doctor, not a physicist!" - echoing the old McCoy's catchphrase of "I'm a doctor, not a _______!" that was later used by the doctors on Deep Space Nine and Voyager and became a trademark of Star Trek doctors. It was something small, but it connected the 2009 movie with the rest of the franchise a a way that spoke to me and told me "Yes, we may be shinier and sleeker, but we are still Star Trek."
I'll stop my Trekkie gushing now.
The 2009 movie is actually the very first ST I ever saw (yup. Newbie. It's why I then went back and started at the very beginning). I can see where you're coming from with the sleek and modern bit, and also with Dr. McCoy's catchphrase.
Actually, in TNG, one of the first episodes I saw...well, I was thinking along much the same lines as you were with the 2009 film. I was going, 'this isn't my Star Trek. I want my TOS characters back. The Enterprise is too fancy' (as you can tell, it hadn't come close to winning me over yet). Then, a rather aged Dr. McCoy came onscreen, and had a conversation with Data, which was, in a word, AWESOME. And it tied everything together, and made it better, and made me laugh. It also made me a little more willing to give TNG a chance, I think. (Since then, I've become rather fonder of the TNG characters, but originally...they were just too unfamiliar, and in different uniforms and a fancy starship to boot).
As it is, I think the TOS titles will always be the ones to 'welcome me in', as we're calling it. Mainly because I have such fond memories of the series? Who knows. Maybe just because I first heard them nearly four years ago.)
~DF
Nearly four years ago? *counts on fingers* Yep, that's about when I got into Star Trek. The new movie was the first Trek I saw, then I started watching TOS episodes haphazardly and catching TNG reruns. Like I said, after a while I got so immersed in those that the new movie was jarring.
And that episode you saw? That was the pilot, so I bet they threw that in there to help fans adjust. I've never had a problem adjusting to a new Star Trek series because I got into TOS and TNG pretty much simultaneously. Deep Space Nine and Voyager are set in a similar time frame to TNG and have a lot of connections, so that wasn't so hard either. TNG has become my favorite, but TOS is still awesome, and when you throw DS9 and Voyager into the mix, it's kind of like they're all tied for a close second. (Poor Enterprise. No one knows about it.)
So now that you like TNG, who's your favorite character? I'm partial to Data myself, and you mentioning him prompted me to ask. Also, Kirk or Picard? (Either answer is acceptable.)
Yeah, my friend announced, about an hour before I left to go to her house, that we were going to see an awesome movie, called Star Trek, and that I'd love it--don't worry what it's about. She was right; it was awesome, and I loved it. I ended up going home with a new fandom, and then started on TOS. This is where our stories are different--I decided to watch TOS all the way through before starting on TNG and everything else. (I haven't completely stuck to that, but it does mean that my viewing of TNG episodes has been rather sporadic).
Ah, was it? That explains a lot. I'm glad they threw that scene in! It was a great scene, and it sort of gave Dr. McCoy's mark of approval to the series. (It also helped introduce Data, and establish him as a great character).
As for Enterprise, I know about it--but not that much. I know it has Admiral Archer (I think?), and a Vulcan named...T'pol, I believe, and--well, basically, I know a little bit. Haven't seen it, though. Then again, I haven't seen Voyager or DS9 yet, either.
I'm actually still gettng into TNG (doubt I've seen more than 10 episodes or so), but from what I've seen so far...probably Picard and Data. Geordi LaForge as well, I think. Other than that, I don't really know the characters so well, or they haven't made enough of an impression on me yet. (I've mainly been bouncing around, watching episodes that look interesting, such as the Moriarty ones and "Trials and Tribble-ations", which I actually want to rewatch soon.)
Honestly, I tend to be partial to pretty much any logical character, I think. It's a good thing, logic. It's also something I've tried to partially adopt, so it's got some personal meaning for me.
Kirk or Picard? Kirk, sorry. Always. Picard is great, but...I've got to go with Kirk. Probably always will. (Although, side point, have you seen Patrick Stewart in X-Men or Hamlet? He's pretty awesome in both. Definitely worth seeing. Especially Hamlet--now, that movie is one I can go on about for quite a while!)
~DawnFire
Well, Archer is the name of the captain on Enterprise, and there was a reference to Admiral Archer's dog in the new movie, so fanon is that they are one and the same. Poor dog.
Only ten episodes? You have a lot of awesomeness ahead of you. :) If you're jumping around, here are my recommendations:
All the two part episodes (most especially "Unification" - it has Spock!)
"Relics" (brings back Scotty)
"Data's Day" (exactly what it sounds like)
"The Inner Light" (Picard lives an entire life in 15 minutes, really powerful)
"The Measure of a Man" (Starfleet tries to rule that Data is property, not a person)
"The Offspring" (Data tries to create a daughter)
"Disaster" (the title happens, and the crew are stranded in strange situations around the ship)
Pretty much any episode with Lt. Barclay
Time travel episodes ("Time's Arrow" is my favorite)
Holodeck episodes
Story arcs that should be viewed in order:
The Q episodes (Q is just...made of awesome)
The Lore episodes (Data's evil twin is a really interesting character)
Borg episodes ("The Best of Both Worlds" is quite possibly the best episode of the entire show)
The Klingon political episodes (if it's Worf-centric, it's probably this)
Though I'm slightly biased. Most of my favorite episodes are Data-centric. He is my favorite character. And my Lust Object for TNG.(You didn't just see that.)
FYI, "Trials and Tribble-ations" is DS9. It was the first episode of DS9 I watched. Tribbles! The way they kept making in-jokes back to the original episode - and the fact that I caught every one. Of course, I've seen the original "Trouble with Tribbles" about ten times (I watch it whenever I'm sick), so that's to be expected. :)
*finally succeeds in stemming the flow of Star Trek gushing*
Whenever I catch an episode of Person of Interest, I get the impression that Harold Finch is saying, "Welcome back; we have a new number today."
Same goes for Elementary, with the introduction scene of the Rube Goldberg criminal-catcher machine sort of saying, with imagery, "Good to see you made it, now watch carefully, because we've got quite the case to be solved."
I think that's what you meant, right?
... that sounds like it, yep. ;)
hS
Person of Interest is a show about a machine that sees all crimes, and people who try to stop said crimes from happening outside of the law's restrictions.
Elementary is Sherlock Holmes remastered as an L.A. freelance investigator and recovering drug addict, with Female!Asian!Watson being his sobriety partner.
By the way, I recently saw (and read) the Generic Surface webcomic. It was hilarious :D Good job!
Are you planning on ever continuing it, or are the days of lego!agents over?
~DF
At the moment I have a massive non-PPC-related (but very PPCish) interlude very nearly complete - although it's been that way for the past few months.
I also have a digital version of the next set for the actual comic, which in theory will make it a lot easier to film. In practice, since Lego Digital Designer is rather more fiddly to use than real Lego, it's about the same. Still, less clutter.
hS
For me, it would have to be the Star Trek TOS titles. You know, you've got the opening scene, and then you get 60s-era fake!space, with the music, and Captain Kirk starts talking, and the music swells...that always makes me grin and relax.
There's also every time I see the Shire, or hear the music for it, but that's a little different. Also, most descriptions of Elves or beautiful places in Tolkien's work.
Not to mention every single CAD reading in PPC stories ever (Yup. I'm serious. It's one of my favorite things from the Original Series, and I love how there are so many different types now--but they all follow the same pattern, just with slightly different additions. My favorites are the ones that come just before the CAD dies--ie, [Elliswen Northstar. Non-canon. Mary-SuewhatisthiskillitnooooIwannalivebutit'sonlyafleshwoundgetthecow! Cranberries!] and then it starts smoking--although the ones that offer opinions on OOC levels and courses of action are a close second. And it's always something familiar, that's never going to change so much that it'll be unrecognizable).
Also in PPC fiction, playing cards or listening to music on the job. Or an agent holding back a homicidal partner.
...I should probably stop there. I do have things that I'm supposed to do today and, you know, they should get done. Mainly because they involve going to visit my cousins, the transport for which leaves in an hour...
~DF
...unfortunately, I can only find video game examples again.
1) In every Metroid title, there's a little jingle that plays once you step out of the save station at the start of the game. These six notes just evoke that "welcome back" feel.
2) Anytime you get your hands on the Master Sword in Zelda. It's the same sword that's been passed on from hero to hero, slain countless monsters, dueled against the Dark Lord time after time, and now it's your turn to hold it.
3) Nintendo gives you the most awesome blast to the past by having you visit the Throwback Galaxy, a remake of Thwomp's Fortress from Super Mario 64. It's a fantastic tribute to one of their greatest classics.
...there is a considerable amount of references to other great works of science fiction in the series.
Spoilers ahoy!
-- A scottish engineer with a heavy accent can be found in your spaceship's engineering deck in the second (and third, if you play it right) game.
-- Commander Shepard dies in the opening sequence of the second game. When s/he returns to the Citadel after spending two years being rebuilt in a lab, a guard says that the commander's profile marks them as dead. Shepard can reply that s/he was only "mostly dead."
-- There is a flamethrower whose official designation is the M-451. Captain Beatty would be proud.
-- An in-universe movie series is titled Blasto, the first hanar Spectre and the protagonist sounds like a very calm and ethereal Dirty Harry.
-- One quest involves being lured into an ambush. Cue Admiral Ackbar.
-- Another mission involves releasing an AI from its programming failsafes. One character say that if it starts singing "Daisy Bell" and turning humans into batteries, he's never going to live it down.
-- After killing a lot of bug aliens that are in no way a reference to... well, Aliens, your pilot asks you if you want to nuke the site just to be sure.
Well, you took the Young Wizards ones, so I'll have to stretch a bit. {; P
Let's see... well, in the second book in the Death Gate Cycle by Margaret Weiss and Tracy Hickman, there's a character called Zifnab who occasionally says things like this:
"Great Gandalf's ghost!" shouted Zifnab. "If he had a ghost. I doubt it. He was such a snob . . . Where was I?"
Also, he has a dragon, and they have this conversation:
"My dragon? Save anybody?" Zifnab shook his head sadly. "You must have him confused with someone else—Smaug, perhaps? No? Ah, I've got it! That lizard who gave Saint George such a nasty time of it! What was his name, now there was a dragon!"
"And you are implying that I'm not?" ... "Smaug!" the dragon thundered. "That vain-glorious fop! And as for that sniveling worm who took on St. George—" ... "And to think I ended up with a worthless old faker like you!" the dragon was shouting. "I could have gone someplace where I would have been appreciated! Pern, for example!"
So that's Middle-earth, England, and Pern implied to exist, all in one go! ... Not really that sneaky unless you don't know those names, though.
There's also a character named Fizban in the Dragonlance series by the same authors. They may or may not be, but probably are, the same person.
"Ah, well. Let's see." The old man muttered to himself. "Fiz—No, I can't use that. Furball. Doesn't seem quite dignified enough. I have it!" he shouted, smiting Paithan on the arm. "Zifnab!"
So there's that, too, as a bonus. *g*
~Neshomeh, who recommends reading the Death Gate Cycle.
IIRC, the Death Gate Cycle, is, to borrow a term from TvTropes, an After the End scenario of Earth. Fizban, OTOH, is Paladine, one of Krynn's deities.
They are very similar, though, and since DGC is After the End, it's probable, in my opinion, that Zifnab simply knows LotR, Pern, and his Christian mythology.
That is, I don't think DGC has anything to do with Earth; or if it does, it's an Earth that somehow ended up with elves, dwarves, Patryns, Sartans, and a bunch of other weird stuff.
As for Fizban being Palatine, it's established that travel between universes is possible even for mortals in unusual circumstances in Dragonlance, so I don't see why a god couldn't hop around to wherever he wanted to. {= )
~Neshomeh
Which makes literally anything you could possibly be talking about at least a million times better.
hS, literally exaggerating
And giggled about it for a while.
At one point Fizban has a conversation with someone, about the time he (Fizban) was thought to have died, saving the others. The other person says something along the lines of "Gandalf said it better" to which Fizban replies that Gandalf had a Balrog hanging from his underpants, so of course he said it better.
But if Fizban and Zifnab is the same person, it is hardly surprising that both incarnations know about Gandalf.
...that conversation was between Zifnab and his Dragon in regards to a "Fly you fools" moment.
It is tough to keep the two straight, of course. Both were supposed to have died at some point in their respective series.
-Phobos
I'm sure I remember it as being Fizban. But admittedly I didn't check it, since all my books are right now packed in neatly stacked cardboard boxes, with all authors starting with W somewhere in the bottom of the stack.
It sounds like you've either read the books more recently than I or have a better memory, so you're probably right.
A great piece of dialogue no matter who said it.
Yes, I have read the Inheritence Cycle, and no, I don't hate it. It's not the greatest work of literature I have ever read, but it's not the worst either. Anyway, that's beside the point, what you care about is the Doctor in Alagaësia.
In Brisinger, Eragon and Aria are talking when Aria scribbles a poem in the dirt. While the entire thing has to do somewhat with the Doctor, the telling line is: 'the lonelly god with many faces, among the stars'
In another section, Solembum the Werecat gives a little speach to Eregon about the things the cat has seen in his life that is potentialy full of Doctor Who references, though only one point is a clear reference.
"There are many strange forces at work in Alagesia, Shadeslayer. I have seen things that defy belief: whirlwinds of light spinning in caverns deep below the ground, men who age backward, stones that speak, and shadows that creep. Rooms bigger on the inside than the outside... Galbatorix is not the only power in the world to be reckoned with, and he may not even be the strongest."
The clear reference here is the "Rooms bigger on the inside than the outside..." referencing the TARDIS. Other potential references are: The Weaping Angels with "Stone that speaks," though that would more acurately be stone that moves. The Doctor could be thought of as a man who "ages backward," though that sounds more like Benjamin Button. Finaly the Vashta Nerada with "shaddows that creep."
And finaly, Angela the herbalist was knitting a hat with runes on it. When asked what the runes read, she said, "Raxacori- Oh never mind. It wouldn't mean anything to you anyway." The word she was going to say was likely Raxacoricofallapatorius, which was a planet featured on Doctor Who.
There are probably other references in the seres to other works, but because the author acnolaged the amount of Doctor Who references in one of the afterwords ("Also, for those who understood the reference to a 'lonely god' when Eragon and Arya are sitting around the campfire, my only excuse is that the Doctor can travel everywhere, even alternate realities. Hey, I'm a fan too!") I decided to share those particular references.
I suppose that's my sixth mini. To be fair, the word could realy use the 'e.' I was working of instinct, it was an honest mistake this time!
'Brisingr' is probably modelled after some Old High Norse word, and that's how OHN works: See Baldr, Níðhöggr, Jörmungandr, etc.
What form to minis on the Board take? *curious*
It was discussed in this thread. Only minis created on the Board are mini-Boarders.
... *Inheritrix.
I asked Open Office for help. :P
hS
I was on the darn device that does not, and cannot, have a spell check, which as you can see, I desperately need. Still, I managed to make relatively few errors, compared to what I can do. I must seem like an absolute idiot, when I 'm just a bad speller. Unfortunately, the errors are very likely going to continue to happen for a very long time.
Now, behave yourself, or I'll tell the S.O. on you.
Or something.
Like when, in Avatar: The Last Airbender, the Death Star is hanging outside a tavern in the guise of a lantern. Or all the Asian cultural references.
From The Serpent's Shadow, the third book in the Kane Chronicles:
All her previous attempts had exploded or gone haywire, terrorizing Khufu and the initiates. Last week she'd created a magical Thermos with googly eyes that levitated around the room, yelling, "Exterminate! Exterminate!" until it smacked me in the head.
Would have been more obvious if if was a saltshaker, but Sadie's British, so her enchanting something with a Doctor Who reference isn't so far-fetched, especially since:
"Why once, in my bunker at Charing Cross Station, I stalked the deadly prey known as Jelly Babies."
Neith's eyes widened. "They are dangerous?"
"Horrible," I agreed. "Oh, they seem small alone, but they always appear in great numbers. Sticky, fattening - quite deadly. There I was, with only two quid and a Tube pass, beset by Jelly Babies, when...Ah, but never mind. When the Jelly Babies come for you...you will find out on your own."
So...Jelly Babies.
The first book of the Kane Chronicles, The Red Pyramid, references Percy Jackson. They're written by the same author, so that makes sense.
"So you can't live in Manhattan?" she asked.
Amos's brow furrowed as he looked across at the Empire State Building. "Manhattan has other problems. Other gods. It's best we stay separate."
And then, from the The Lightning Thief, the first Percy Jackson book:
I went up to the guard at the front desk and said, "Six hundredth floor."
He was reading a huge book with a picture of a wizard on the front. I wasn't much into fantasy, but the book must have been good, because the guard took a while to look up.
There just happens to be a very good book with a picture of a wizard on the cover that came out in 2005, when the Lightning Thief was published.
And in The Last Olympian:
A security guard was sitting behind the desk in the lobby, reading a big black book with a flower on the cover. He glanced up when we all filed in with our weapons and armor clanking.
There is a big black book with a flower on the cover on the cover that wouldn't be good enough to distract you from demigods.
I actually can't take credit for these last two, I saw the Harry Potter one here and the Twilight one here.
... the 'other gods' line on first readthrough, sad to say. I think there was something in Throne of Fire to the same effect, but I forget what. And I haven't read Serpent's Shadow yet, so no spoilers, or it'll be fingers-in-the-ears time...
The book covers are awesome, however. Very awesome.
hS
The book All You Need Is Kill, when you paraphrase the plot, is basically the Halo games.
Main character fights aliens in a giant suit of armor, gets his ass summarily handed to him, respawns the day before the fight happened.
This goes on for the whole book.
It's worded well enough that it takes you a moment to figure out that he is constantly reviving at checkpoint, but still.
The guy's armor even comes standard equipped with a Halo-esque status HUD, for crying out loud.
Ciaphas Cain mentions in Defender of the Imperium that he had expected "[a Tyranid] to look significantly less like something Arbitrator Foreboding would shoot."
A bit of context: in 40k fluff, the Adeptus Arbites functions as the Imperium's police force. They often act as judge, jury, and executioner, and can perform summary executions, much like the Commissars of the Imperial Guard.
In short, they function like 2000 A.D.'s Judges. Combine this with his name, Arbitrator Foreboding, and it's a stealth reference to Judge Dredd.