Does it even need to be Lux?

Subject: Does it even need to be Lux?
Author: Neshomeh
Posted on: 2013-02-15 17:36:00 UTC

I'm just wondering, because based on your description of the scenario, she seems like an odd choice. Rescuing someone abducted by a Mary Sue factory strikes me as a job for the DIA, or maybe Intel—or Despatch, since she's not an agent yet and it could qualify as a trans-dimensional snatching of sorts.

See also: Eledhwen Elerossiel and Lilith Wydenbrook, who have an origin similar to what you're thinking of.

~Neshomeh

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Can I ask a favor of Huinesoron? by Forestiger on 2013-02-14 01:51:00 UTC Reply

Hey Huinesoron. I'm a huge fan, especially of your series Crashing Down (Agent Kayleigh, at least for me, is sheer awesome). I was just wondering, would it be okay if I used a Mary Sue Factory in my Permission piece?

It wouldn't necessarily be a part of the LMSF, but it would be very underfunded and resorts to kidnapping people for experiments (as carefully and discreetly as possible, of course). They sent a Mary Sue type thing to kidnap my agent, an oblivious high schooler. It almost gets my agent with a syringe full of sleeping serum, but my agent notices and fends it off for a little, which just amuses it.

The Sue jabs my agent with the syringe, but just when all seems hopeless, Agent Lux comes to the rescue. My sgent manages to drag herself home, as the serum is all screwed up because it's expired/not made right/whatever. She then proceeds to spend the night hiding from her parents and vomiting up glitter.

Lux comes back, and it's revealed that the Sue just barely got away. My agent joins the PPC, as she hates how easily the Sue beat her and is scared that it will come back.

So that's the basic summary of what I want to use the factory for. Please tell me if you think my origin is the stupidest thing ever, and don't be afraid to offer ConCrit. It's okay if you don't want to let me use the Factory, I can always think of a different origin. I'd also be happy to tweak my story. I can email you more details and when I'm finished, my Permission piece (I've basically written the parts up to Sue's entrance).

Thank you for reading my rambling post. Anyone else who's got advice for me, please share. I could use all the help I get (:

Quick question/clarification by DawnFire on 2013-02-17 13:55:00 UTC Reply

To clarify, is it alright to have one of my agents recieve the Message (from the Swan's Egg trilogy)? I'm not sure when/if it would happen, but I'd like to know if it's alright :)

Also, can the connection between Boarders and agents be expanded upon? For instance, could a Boarder potentially know that their agent had gained sentience/reality, and amused him/herself by sending the agent gifts and the occasional message and watching said agent freak out trying to figure out what was going on? (Ok, that's not exactly what my idea was, that's more of a 'could this happen?' question. The actual idea is that Agent Dawn has a supply of NM&NMs that mysteriously replenishes itself, and that one day she recieves the Message and--I'm not really sure what happens next, beyond someone--possibly her--becoming deeply suspicious of the NM&NMs, and possibly having some sort of conversation on the Board with the Boarder who 'created' her wherein she tries to convince the Boarder that she does exist, until reality reasserts itself. It would probably go in an interlude of some sort).

Although, on a different note, how can agents have NM&NMs? Do they just not know where they come from?

Also, is there such a thing as an agent who doesn't forget? Outside of the former DIO agents? That's not to say that I have a candidate, but it would be an interesting idea to explore...As would the Boarders' perspective of this. I mean, yes, we'd probably either call troll or just assume it was a crazy roleplay, but...it could be very funny.

That's all the rambling and questions for now, I think...please let me know if any of this could be plausibly used in a PPC story.

~DawnFire

Yes! Please! by Huinesoron on 2013-03-02 19:09:00 UTC Reply

(Got your note. ;))

The Message was designed as something that anyone could use at any time. That kind of got lost along the way...

Essentially, anything that you can write well can happen. ;) There are a number of 'self-aware' agents in HQ already, for example my own Agent Lou...

... who would like to take over this post from me. Sigh.

{That's 'Former Agent Lou', thank you. Hi, DawnFire. What I believe His Nibs was about to say is that there are a fair few of us who know what's going on - but we don't all know the same things. I, for instance, am entirely aware that I live in hS' head and only agreed to work at the PPC - the first time, I mean - as a way to get out. The fact that I got a love life out of it is a bonus. =D

{But there are others who 'know' that they're written characters - because they've met their authors in the flesh. I technically did that once, too, but that was a special case - and a conversation which actually happened in... Google Talk, I think}

Which was quite surreal; I don't recommend it.

{You wouldn't, control freak. Anyway, it's (probably) impossible for fictional characters to actual reach the real real world - and I understand my grandkids are going to be finding that out in a story which isn't finished yet - so when agents meet their creators in meatspace, there's clearly something fictional going on.}

Is this helping? She does go on a bit.

{In the nicest possible sense, 'Mr Narrator', shut up. So, in general, the rules of writing PPC fiction apply: if you write it well, it's no problem. If you write it badly - rewrite it better.}

{And I think hS got called a troll by a very-newbie a few years ago for posting as a few of his agents. It was quite funny to watch.}

{~Lou}

:D by DawnFire on 2013-03-04 10:04:00 UTC Reply

...so what you're saying is, if I can write it well enough, anything can happen. Up to and including interactions between Agent Dawn and DawnFire the Boarder.

I do hope you know what you've started, hS (and Lou). My brain tends to take ideas and run away with them, complete with ~~evil~~ gleeful laughter and promises to make them expand into castles. Basically, I may have just found the subject for about ten or so interludes, or possibly more...Ah, that's it: 'snowballed' is the term I'm looking for. That one little idea has just managed to snowball into a whole storyline. I'll do my best to keep it from getting too crazy (and I think I'll succeed), but so far I've planned out both the progression of DawnFire and Agent Dawn's interactions and an exploration of just how different Boarders can be from their agents. (I mean, seriously, how many of us would actually, realistically deal well with giant, sentient Flowers? Or seeing our favorite characters as actual, living, breathing people? Or even just seeing a place that only exists to us in books and imagination? We ourselves are not agents, and while we may base agents on ourselves--and often do--those agents generally have several qualities that we do not.) And also, how would Boarders react to someone posting as an agent, and refusing to admit that it was a roleplay? That could get fairly ridiculous...

And, of course, pretty much all of this could be written seriously...or it could be written with every scrap of humor to be found in the situation, which is a lot. :D

Speaking of the Message, has anyone (else) used it? If so, who?

Also, nice to meetcha, Agent--er, Former Agent Lou. You and hS in one post make for a very humorous read, and I remember you ~~fondly~~ happily from the webcomic.

To sum things up a bit: I've just discovered exactly why Agent Dawn keeps coming out so insane. I mean, it goes beyond a lack of brain-to-mouth filter; there must be something that enables her to be so crazy, as well as something that can explain various little inconsistencies (such as, if she never gets to spend much time in her RC, why are there so many piles of things? So much painting on the walls? So much--ok, you get the idea). And, it seems, that something that makes her slightly above-average insane is that she knows she is, to some extent, a fictional character; and that something that explains the inconsistencies is that she occasionally gets (very surreal) visits from her writer. (They get a little less surreal as Dawn and DawnFire learn to ignore some of the facts of the actual situation, but...that's a bit hard to do, so I doubt it'll ever get too un-surreal).

And all this inspiration is coming right when I'm trying to finish up my Permission Request. Why exactly did I decide it was a good idea to let my brain run off with ideas for this meta adventure and an OFU?

...Oh, right, I didn't decide that. It just happened anyway. Good thing, that; I'm having a lot of fun with this, and the current plans for the OFU are wonderful.

...the troll incident sounds hilarious. I don't suppose there's a link to that thread lying around somewhere?

But yeah, if I've got free license to run with all these ideas, as long as I can make them come out well...let the meta adventure begin!

(er, after I get Permission. Yes. Permission is important. Tomorrow Permission, on ~~Friday~~ Tuesday the stories!)

~DawnFire

^ (for Huinesoron) (nm) by DawnFire on 2013-02-28 15:48:00 UTC Reply

Hijacking the topic for a similar question. by Sergio Turbo on 2013-02-14 18:07:00 UTC Reply

For plot purposes in my current superproject (Blank Sprite), I was going to need Defectives. However, I have a little question:

- Is it possible to make Defectives deliberately, to be used as mooks?
- And it is possible for a single Sue (with the help of two other character with Suvian characteristics but not full-blown Sues) to set up all what is needed to produce them, during the course of rougly 4 years?

Urr. by Huinesoron on 2013-02-14 20:51:00 UTC Reply

1/ Yes, it would be - and it would probably be cheaper, or at least less resource-intensive (maybe you don't add the glitter? No idea) - but would a Mary-Sue do so? It's a bit of a toss-up between 'I must make only perfect things!' and 'I can't produce a possible competitor!'. A Flower-run Factory would face a similar dilemma, with the choice being between 'Mary-Sues are the best weapon against the PPC and/or canon' and 'Defectives are rather less ditzy'.

2/ That probably depends entirely on where she is. The Factories are using a sort of amalgam of various scifi cloning technologies. A Star Wars Sue, for instance, would probably find it very easy. One stuck in Middle-earth wouldn't have a chance. This also assumes she has a clue what to do - simple trial and error would probably take longer than 4 years.

But in principle, there's no reason a Sue couldn't set up a generator, nutrient system, and cloning pod, with attached genetic sequencer and glitter-dialysis system, in a cave somewhere and start growing full-fledged Sues, let alone Defectives. And if you can make one, you can make several...

(And on the Star Wars note: there's no indication that Factory Sues are grown in the presence of ysalamiri. In case that's relevant)

hS

Some more explanations. by Sergio Turbo on 2013-02-15 08:41:00 UTC Reply

Basically, the Sue needs mooks (and expendable ones at that) to send around to do her bidding in order to reveal herself only at the most dramatic moment. She's dead set to toy around with my Agents in order to take revenge against one of them.

Yes, she's smarter than the average Sue. Not enough to realize that her plan has several flaws, but enough to give a bad time to my Agents. Telling more would be spoilers, though.

P.S. by Sergio Turbo on 2013-02-15 18:42:00 UTC Reply

Tech isn't a problem, the tech necessary was already avaible there by 2000 HST, and Blank Sprite takes place in late 2012 HST (with the >Sue starting her plan in early 2009 HST).

I've gotta ask: ysalamiri? (nm) by DawnFire on 2013-02-14 21:23:00 UTC Reply

Furry lizards. by Huinesoron on 2013-02-14 21:51:00 UTC Reply

They produce a bubble where the Force doesn't exist (or, according to Wookiepedia, where the Force does exist of course because it's in every living thing, but where nothing can use it, uhuh yeah right). In the first Star Wars novels written after the original trilogy finished*, they were used around growing clones to stop them going mad.

hS

*As opposed to 'Splinter Of The Mind's Eye', written after the first film - and featuring Luke/Leia romance and Darth Vader totally not caring about some dude named Skywalker, because Lucas hadn't written that much plot yet...

Hm, interesting. Thanks. *is still on the original trilogy* (nm) by DawnFire on 2013-02-14 22:20:00 UTC Reply

Hmm. Well... by Huinesoron on 2013-02-14 08:21:00 UTC Reply

... I certainly don't mind you using the idea of the Factories. The League itself itself is fairly fragmented these days, so an 'Independant' Factory wouldn't be a problem either - and being cut off from the League would explain why they were also cut off from the (former) PPC Biotechnology Inc. and its supplies.

As to your summary, I'm assuming the Factory wants your character because she has some characteristic they want to breed into their Sues (the Mysterious Somebody bred for Force sensitivity at one point, for example). That's fine as a motibe, as long as you make sure not to make it a SuperAwesum!!!Trait ("They want here because she's the BEST and PRETTIEST violinist in the historyoftheWORLD!!1"). I suppose the other reason could be to use her as a test subject for the Sues to practice being Mary-Sues on - but in that case, I'd imagine her kidnapper would use charm and so on, not sleeping potion (unless the charm failed?).

Using 'it' to describe a Mary-Sue - even one from the Factories - is dubious; they're very definitely She (or He), unless they're a Defective. Defectives, if you recall, are the colourless workers in the Factory - they're Sues whose breeding process went a little wrong. Calling one of them It would make perfect sense - and would explain why it didn't use Suvian powers to kidnap her.

So in general: I think it's a good, workable idea, and I certainly don't have any objections to you borrowing my ideas. Just be sure you've got people's motivations pinned down in your head - even if they don't show up in the story! You've got a good motive for your character to join the PPC, but make sure you know why the Factory wants her - either specifically her, or just people in general. What experiments? And, equally, make sure you know what Lux is even doing there (although, yes, 'plothole' is perfectly acceptable).

And I'm glad you like Crashing Down! It took a bloomin' long time to write, so it's good to know people are still enjoying it.

And have you taken a look at the PPC Permission Self-Check? It's an awesome (even if I do say so myself) way to check how deep your understanding of the PPC is - and quite fun, too!

hS

Thank you! by Forestiger on 2013-02-14 23:42:00 UTC Reply

Thanks so much for the advice! It's definitely going to be helpful. I hadn't really thought about the whole he/she thing, and I should come up with a better reason for Lux to be there.

Does it even need to be Lux? by Neshomeh on 2013-02-15 17:36:00 UTC Reply

I'm just wondering, because based on your description of the scenario, she seems like an odd choice. Rescuing someone abducted by a Mary Sue factory strikes me as a job for the DIA, or maybe Intel—or Despatch, since she's not an agent yet and it could qualify as a trans-dimensional snatching of sorts.

See also: Eledhwen Elerossiel and Lilith Wydenbrook, who have an origin similar to what you're thinking of.

~Neshomeh

Well... by Forestiger on 2013-02-15 23:43:00 UTC Reply

I wanted to use Lux since she's basically public property and fun to write. But I can see why it would be weird for her to be there, so I guess Despatch would make more sense. Thanks for the advice!

And goshdarnit to heck, I thought I was being original here (: