Subject: Agreed.
Author:
Posted on: 2015-04-03 05:09:00 UTC
In the early game, Perish Song isn't too bad (without abilities or trapping moves to support it), but in the endgame it tips the scales really far in the user's favor, especially when they already have the advantage. It's allowed in the metagame, but I think for this mostly casual competition banning it makes sense.
I know Fasoula suggested it below, but I think the discussion might be overlooked.
So who's up for it?
Is it weird that I like the silver cup best? I may just end up shooting for second place.
I'D FEED MYSELF TO ARAGOG'S CHILDREN FOR THAT CUP!
I'D TAKE ON AN ARMY OF DALEKS FOR THAT CUP! AND WIN!
Because how can I enjoy the shininess if I'm a pile of ash?
And then whoever wins their trophy can put the picture on their Wiki profiles. :D
*sends lembas* Thank you so much!
The last day to finalize teams is this Friday, April 10. If you don't have your team listed yet, you will be taken off the roster! If you don't have your team ready, sorry, but you'll have had a week to get this done.
That is all.
People have mentioned giving the tourney a story.
How would we do it? I don't know what kind of cool story a tournament could have, and I also don't know if we'd be using our Boarder personae or if it'd be agents throwing Pokémom at each other.
The tournament as a story kind of constructs itself, with its own characters (contestants), rising action (the start of the tournament all the way to the semi-finals) and conclusion (the championship battle). It has plenty of exciting drama all on its own. All we have to do is give it a narrative, and we could do that in quite a few different ways.
Here I agree with Iximaz, though. We should wait to see how the tournament proceeds before deciding how to do that and who will be writing it. Personally, though, I would like to see the participants write (short) introductions for themselves as trainers and their teams. Them being Boarders preferably, since a few of us don't have Permission.
Would this be within the PPC Multiverse, or in the Pokémon world, with Trainer!Boarders?
I must know these things. I don't know if other people would have thought of them.
Both hold their own appeal. I think the PPCverse would be most appropriate and give us the most creative freedom, but part of me really wants to hold this at the Pokemon World Tournament facility.
What does everyone else think?
Couldn't we just use a portal to get to the facility and use it regardless? But frankly it does not matter much to me one way or the other.
I just assumed it was part of the Multiverse or it was its own sub-universe. But I really have no idea.
How about we wait and see the outcome first before deciding?
Although exactly when that is is a bit iffy, willing to take people on with either my tourney team or my normal OU team if people want a challenge.
I'm usually online between 10am and 10pm. I have ludicrous amounts of free time.
I'm there too for getting curbstomped practice!
Here is a collective document of everything that's going down so far, what with rules and team registration.
Next Friday, April 10, will end signups and marks the last day you can alter your team. The brackets will be posted Saturday, April 11.
The Friday after, April 17, will mark the official start of the tournament! Matches will be arranged between competitors so a time suiting both can be decided. I will number the brackets indicating the order in which battles will be fought, so that way people don't have to choose between watching two different battles if they so desire.
Swapping Mamoswine out for Rotom-W, if that is OK.
Can I swap Smeargle with a different Pokémon?
The new guy is Woundwort the Diggersby.
1) I think all three things have to stay the same.
2) There are no trainer items on Showdown. You assemble a team, choose their moves, EVs/IVs, Nautres, items, nicknames, and you're good to go. No potions, revives, antidotes, burn heals, etc. You need to use berries instead.
3) B-but... you do know that three is the number thou shall count to?
1) Moves, stats, held items, everything has to stay the same.
2) No trainer items are allowed.
3) And I don't have an answer!
How long do matches normally take? Five minutes, half an hour, two hours?
hS
Depends on how much people stall out each other. I've seen matches last an hour thanks to healing/walling/general trolling.
Just spent half an hour poking around the subject and decided 'too complicated, not doin'.' I might watch, though.
And I'll definitely make the trophies. I have the ideas already... just waiting to feel like drawing.
hS
And awesome, thank you! I can't wait to see what they look like. :D
Let everyone see the nice shiny trophies they'll be fighting over!
Could you go ahead and email them to me so I have them on file for posterity's sake? Plus I want it to be a surprise for the end of the tournament. Address is iximaz(at)gmail(dot)com.
It seems fun, and everyone is excited, obviously. But the fandom never interested me... Except that my sister often plays as Pickachu on Super Smash Bros., and she is DEATH with him. Me, I'm a pro at Meta-Knight. :)
*lassos Pokèmon* Props for getting an accented e to show up, but no props for using a grave accent instead of an acute accent, like so:
Pokémon Silver was one of the first video games I ever got, which is why I love the fandom so much.
I know, sucks. I can't either, but, that's the way of things. We can, however, watch the matches either after they come out, or (potentially) live. More then that, however, is impossible without having access to Showdown.
I'm hoping this tournament will allow even the noobiest of noobs to play, but that's supposing you've played Pokémon before and have at least an idea of what's what.
I mean, do you know your type matchups? What's super effective and what's not, weaknesses and immunities? How to balance type coverage? Which 'mons have certain abilities you can exploit? Or even what abilities you can reasonably expect a 'mon to have?
If you've never played Pokémon before, you will be wrecked. I'm sorry, but that's the truth.
That has been known to happen. But anything can happen, like the guys who sweep entire teams with a Magikarp.
One of my play throughs, I had a legitimate team going though, but I got unlucky against one computer trainer. Managed to wipe out my entire team except for a level 18 Magikarp. The trainer had a team in the 28-32 range. I figured I was done. Somehow that Magikarp tackled its way to victory. And even better, by the end of it, it managed to hit 20 and on to bigger and better things.
It was able to Splash/Tackle stall out a Wobbuffet that had trapped him with Shadow Tag. That Wobbuffet was ten levels higher and little Dan the Magikarp killed it. I was so proud of him.
And then when I was on my way out of Reflection Cave to heal, he got trapped again and wasn't able to stall out. He ended up Struggling to death. It was painful to watch. TT_TT
And then returned to Viridian and Tackled its way to level 20 using Metapods... Speaking of level 20 Magikarps, I've seen a mini-Missingno named "Gyrados" jumping around this thread, and Gyarados is not happy.
I'm just asking about "are." ;)
In the early game, Perish Song isn't too bad (without abilities or trapping moves to support it), but in the endgame it tips the scales really far in the user's favor, especially when they already have the advantage. It's allowed in the metagame, but I think for this mostly casual competition banning it makes sense.
I'll just have to hope that this isn't the only one. :)
Which is what we're using.
Now I was assuming 'Showdown' was a specific battle mode or something, but this inspired my interest. Does it really not require the game at all?
hS
Just Google Pokémon Showdown and you can design your team and battle other people online. No game needed in the slightest!
Is that required?
hS
If you just want to play for fun, that's totally alright. I will warn you though, there will be people playing to win.
While you're here, could I trouble you to design a Sunflower Cup trophy thinger? *puppy eyes*
... as 'hahaha, there's not a chance in Pokehades of me winning in any way'. Srsly. I'm no good against the computer; playing other people is a recipe for hilarious failure. Eh. I'll think about it.
Hmm... a trophy, you say? But... only one? You're not giving prizes for second and third place?
hS
... stupid Flint and his Magmortar...
... Cynthia and Cyrus were pushovers compared to him for me. =P
I'd that wouldn't be too much trouble. Only request is that there's a sunflower on it.
When do you need them by? I think you said 'next Friday' for the start of the tournament somewhere?
hS
Then the Friday after, the tournament will begin. I want to give the latecomers time to plan, as well as give everyone a heads up.
you'd like me to add you to the list? It would have to wait until tomorrow afternoon, I'm afraid, but I will if you want me to.
We're allowing seven 'mon teams to allow a bit of versatility.
What does a sub do?
I'll probably give it until next Friday before calling off sign-ups. That'll give me plenty of time to organize a bracket system, and hopefully everyone else time to tweak their teams and movesets.
I'm thinking the tournament will start the week after next to give people plenty of time to tweak their strategies.
But, perhaps this would be more appropriate for the occasion.
For the 2015 PPC Pokémon Tournament! Any time someone posts their team or says they'd like to participate, I'll add them to the roster!
Because that heavily affects what team I use.
Igor (Garbodor)
I'd like to swap out Sableye for Mr. Mime if possible.
Shedinja and Mr. Mime are out, Alakazam and Klefki are in.
Per [EvilAI]UBEROverlord's suggestion, one substitute Pokémon that may be switched between battles is allowed.
I'm naming Leafeon as mine.
...has a glaring electric-type weakness. All it takes is a special sweeper with electric moves and half of your squad is toast.
There are always nasty surprises I could throw at you.
Well, King Bull of Ribbon's allowed.
If not, Solga (Volcarona)
Uh... where's the Nameless Admin when you need him?
I'm thinking it might be a good idea to have registration be through email or a similar, non-visible means. Seeing everyone post their teams like this... It might sway the choices of those who post after to make a different comp based on what they've seen others will have. Not that I don't trust everyone, it's just that knowledge is power in things like this. Even the smallest advantage can make a difference.
If we'll be making these battles for everyone to see, the element of surprise is lost very quickly as people higher on the list wait and plan strategy.
Do it like television does - do the matches privately, but don't show the recordings until they're all over. Everybody goes in on equal ground, and we can all enjoy how it goes once it has already finished. For my comp, knowing what people will be throwing out first would be crucial. I don't trust myself to not take advantage of that even on a subconscious level, to be honest.
That would only work if we had a judge, because if we sent it to another player then they could conceivably prepare for everything.
In order for that to work, we need a neutral party who is not participating, but knows the rules well enough to moderate.
You don't disclose the moves, and you still have that one sub which means there is only limited preparation that can be done anyways.
As I mentioned before, I think all legendaries should be banned from the tournament. It doesn't take skill or knowledge of the game in order to use one and they have the highest stats in the game. The tournament should be about how you play, not who can chose the best legendaries.
I understand why all would be banned, but we already have bans on the most broken ones. Yes, they have the highest stats - that's the point. Everyone would get one guaranteed powerhouse regardless of their skill. Some of us don't have as much experience as others, and having a legendary would help offset that. Getting stomped without being able to fight back at all isn't fun for a newbie to this kind of thing,
Some legendaries are quite easy to take down, especially the trio's, they're not too bad really. Other one's like Heatran and Celebi can easily be countered by a certain type (Ground and Bug respectively) and others (ie Mew and Jirachi) whilst having high stats total actually have average stats everywhere instead of one really good stat like most other legendaries, so they could also be allowed and they won't be too OP for the games overall.
Aegislash Arceus Blaziken Darkrai Deoxys Deoxys-A Deoxys-D Deoxys-S Dialga Genesect Giratina Giratina-O Greninja Groudon Ho-Oh Kyogre Kyurem-W Lugia Mewtwo Palkia
Rayquaza Reshiram Shaymin-S Xerneas Yveltal Zekrom Mega-Rayquaza Mega-Gengar Mega Kangaskhan Mega Lucario Mega Mawile Mega Salamence
AKA the banlist from Gen VI OU
If only because it'd much simpler than debating what Pokemon are and aren't fair to use. Smogon already did all that work for us!
I would still rather pick an chose. Mostly because it eliminates two of my favorites from the pool. But it is acceptable.
Kyurem-B lacks certain advantages Kyurem-W has. Look at the differences in their move sets and stat spreads. If you want specifics take a look at Smogon's summaries of the two. There are more factors involved in tiering Pokemon that just stat totals.
Count me in. Assuming it's Showdown, that is. Nevermind that I'm mentally stuck in Gen III.
I was stuck in Generation II until HG/SS came out then I forced myself to get a DS and jumped in at Gen IV then V.
Not so much 'old school' as 'played Emerald on an emulator, never bothered to find a working DS emulator'. Also, interests change, etc.
I understand that. I originally stopped playing around '02 or so, then came back to it in about '08 and have been off and on since then.
I personally never much cared for emulators.
Been a PC player since I was three.
In order to minimize the amount of rules we have to make, why don't we take advantage of the rules already in place. By that I mean the two tiers of Ubers and OU, maybe having a tournament in each if people want it, or if only one tournament is to be had then vote and whichever comes out on top happens.
I have one OU team ready for action and a couple more ideas floating around, so assume I'm in, I could even make an Uber team if need be.
But people have called for Legendaries, so maybe we should modify the existing rules instead, actually?
If you want to organize an Uber-Tier tournament, go ahead, but I'm already kind of busy with the regular one. :P
I think everyone should use the same team through to the end. Otherwise it would be like having once team compete to see who goes to the Olympics and then send another team in their stead, you know? At least, that's my opinion. Stick with your guns.
Anyone else want to weigh in?
Keep the teams the same all the way through. The victory will be all the sweeter for knowing that you didn't just switch to the best possible counter for every opponent. That said, will we be registering the teams we'll be using here?
And then you are limited to that seven all tourney long.
I think it would be beneficial if we held a few practice rounds prior to the tournament, just to get those who aren't as familiar with the modern mechanics up to speed. I would also suggest to these people to play a few Random OU battles on Showdown and maybe read up on Bulbapedia, that's how I learned to play semi-competitively. This way we can all be on more even ground when the tournament begins.
What might be best, instead of fighting into Smogon's database, we come up with on our own a list of banned Pokémon. Seeing as the Uber Tier varies between generations and such. But again I personally have no problems with allowing all. A skilled enough battler can compensate for it.
It seems my team has something that's both Moody and Baton Passy.
... I admit that it's to charge up Stored Power on one of my other Pokémon.
I'm already compiling a list of names and want to be certain.
Even though I won't be able to use my team of 6 Mewtwos now.
I joke.
How do you get randomized tournament brackets?
Also, I tend to play things that are fun to mess with, even if it's suboptimal, so I don't expect to get very far.
By the way: What are the rules regarding Evasion?
I ask because Smogon seems to hate evasion, even though there are tons of ways to get around it.
Maybe as to randomized brackets do something like dice rolling depending on the numbers.
I will also be honest, I don't much care for Smogon. When I was into the competitive battling, a large chunk of their movesets were either A) Almost impossible to get unless you went through extreme chain breeding or B) Straight up illegal movesets
It's annoying as all getout, but it's very easy to destroy if you know what you're doing. If anyone has objections, go ahead and speak up.
As for randomized, we need to see how many people will sign up before doing any assigning, but I can take care of that. They probably have programs for random brackets.
Like Mind Reader and Sheer Cold.
The counters are moves that don't check accuracy, like Aerial Ace and Disarming Voice; moves that lower evasion, such as Sweet Scent; moves that increase your own accuracy, like Hone Claws; moves that temporarily nullify evasion, such as Foresight and Mind Reader; and Haze, which instantly reverts all stat changes.
I just like that Articuno moveset so I mention it when I can. Evasion makes no difference to me. I can work around it. Many of my mons have moves like Aura Sphere (always hit unless in semi-invulnerable state)
Not to mention there are plenty of other ways around it. That's why I love that Articuno set. Mind Reader, next move guaranteed to hit, Sheer Cold 1 hit KO. That's fun to use.
I think I'd be up for it if it was over Showdown - put everyone on even ground and all that. I don't have the time or drive to find a team, then breed them to perfect stats - I'd rather just get straight to the battle.
If it's on Showdown, I'm game. If it isn't, er... less so.
I'm more of a 'Dex completionist than a battler. But I'll join in for the sake of participation.
I even have a team set up. Hit me with your best shot!
But, I'm game. Count me in.
