Not so much 'back'.

Subject: Not so much 'back'.
Author: Huinesoron
Posted on: 2015-02-23 09:29:00 UTC

They never actually existed. There was a thread attempting to create them, and someone (Phobos?) put all the ideas from it up on the Wiki, but the concept never really got off the ground.

So if you're volunteering to shake out the problems with it... well, here goes:

The purpose of the houses (as opposed to just having people ask for a Big Sib) is to let folks focus their search. So if your main reason for being in the PPC is to talk in the IRC, say, then you want a Big Sib who can help with that, rather than, say, me, who'll go 'I'unno'.

So, houses. The list as it currently stands, ignoring the two 'I've come up with a name and want to be special' entries, is:

-PPC stuff
-Writing
-Concrit
-Fandom
-The PPC community

That's a fairly decent breakdown of what the PPC does, actually. I might be tempted to combine Writing and Concrit, since they're covering mostly the same ground (ie, 'how to write'), and I'd probably be tempted to add a house for RPs, since they come up quite frequently, but it's decent.

But... I'm not sure we're really divided that strongly. People don't join the PPC just to talk about fandom (I hope); they join it because they like the stories, and maybe they want to write as well, and and and. So the houses are artificial lines, and I think they might be too strong.

They also don't help with the 'hS knows nothing about the IRC' problem; what if someone signs up to whatever I'm in because they're really into that, and then wants to go into the IRC? I can't offer a single bit of advice.

Furthermore -- which house would I, for instance, be in? I write heaps. I'm The Walking Encyclopaedia of the PPC. I write decent Quenya and have a site for that. So should I be in Kind Word and a Grave, Darjeeling, or Parmandili? Or all three, and render the concept superfluous?

So much for 'pointing out problems'. How about some solutions, huh, hS? Gods of all stars, all you ever do is whinge! Do you think just because you've been here since before mankind awoke you can just put everyone down? Be constructive for once, ya grumpy old elf!

Well, never fear, me: I do have some suggestions.

-I already said I'd suggest rejigging the houses. I say we merge to make Grave and a Two-by-Four (or whatever), delete 'Fruitbat' and 'Tryforce Area', and consider a new house for RPs.

-EITHER:
--All Big Sibs should have a broad understanding of all the houses: that is, they should be able to write, should have a decent knowledge of the PPC, and know how to use the Board and the IRC. They then set up shop in the house that they focus most on. Basically, a Big Sib can answer any question a Little Sib will ask; the houses are basically so's you have something in common to chat about.
-OR:
--Big Sibs in each house should post their names on the Wiki page. They should then be willing to consult/answer questions outside another Big Sib's area. So if a Parmandili Little Sib wants to ask about the IRC, their Big Sib can direct them to a listed Skull Goblet Big Sib (or ask for them). The best way to do this is probably through Wiki talk pages. The main problem with this version is it's liable to break down as people leave.

-I volunteer to make house crests/badges a la Plort, once there's a finalised list. Hopefully that'll stop me picking on me. (I'm not sure this counts as a suggestion...)

hS

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Bringing the Sib houses back! by Iximaz on 2015-02-23 01:11:00 UTC Reply

In this thread, I asked TheShyIon if she would like to be my little sib, and she said yes. Desdendelle felt it was important enough to merit its own thread.

So yeah, it's official: I'm now a member of Parmandili and have taken young Ion under my wing. Yay? *cakefetti*

(And if I did something wrong I'm really sorry.)

Not so much 'back'. by Huinesoron on 2015-02-23 09:29:00 UTC Reply

They never actually existed. There was a thread attempting to create them, and someone (Phobos?) put all the ideas from it up on the Wiki, but the concept never really got off the ground.

So if you're volunteering to shake out the problems with it... well, here goes:

The purpose of the houses (as opposed to just having people ask for a Big Sib) is to let folks focus their search. So if your main reason for being in the PPC is to talk in the IRC, say, then you want a Big Sib who can help with that, rather than, say, me, who'll go 'I'unno'.

So, houses. The list as it currently stands, ignoring the two 'I've come up with a name and want to be special' entries, is:

-PPC stuff
-Writing
-Concrit
-Fandom
-The PPC community

That's a fairly decent breakdown of what the PPC does, actually. I might be tempted to combine Writing and Concrit, since they're covering mostly the same ground (ie, 'how to write'), and I'd probably be tempted to add a house for RPs, since they come up quite frequently, but it's decent.

But... I'm not sure we're really divided that strongly. People don't join the PPC just to talk about fandom (I hope); they join it because they like the stories, and maybe they want to write as well, and and and. So the houses are artificial lines, and I think they might be too strong.

They also don't help with the 'hS knows nothing about the IRC' problem; what if someone signs up to whatever I'm in because they're really into that, and then wants to go into the IRC? I can't offer a single bit of advice.

Furthermore -- which house would I, for instance, be in? I write heaps. I'm The Walking Encyclopaedia of the PPC. I write decent Quenya and have a site for that. So should I be in Kind Word and a Grave, Darjeeling, or Parmandili? Or all three, and render the concept superfluous?

So much for 'pointing out problems'. How about some solutions, huh, hS? Gods of all stars, all you ever do is whinge! Do you think just because you've been here since before mankind awoke you can just put everyone down? Be constructive for once, ya grumpy old elf!

Well, never fear, me: I do have some suggestions.

-I already said I'd suggest rejigging the houses. I say we merge to make Grave and a Two-by-Four (or whatever), delete 'Fruitbat' and 'Tryforce Area', and consider a new house for RPs.

-EITHER:
--All Big Sibs should have a broad understanding of all the houses: that is, they should be able to write, should have a decent knowledge of the PPC, and know how to use the Board and the IRC. They then set up shop in the house that they focus most on. Basically, a Big Sib can answer any question a Little Sib will ask; the houses are basically so's you have something in common to chat about.
-OR:
--Big Sibs in each house should post their names on the Wiki page. They should then be willing to consult/answer questions outside another Big Sib's area. So if a Parmandili Little Sib wants to ask about the IRC, their Big Sib can direct them to a listed Skull Goblet Big Sib (or ask for them). The best way to do this is probably through Wiki talk pages. The main problem with this version is it's liable to break down as people leave.

-I volunteer to make house crests/badges a la Plort, once there's a finalised list. Hopefully that'll stop me picking on me. (I'm not sure this counts as a suggestion...)

hS

Okay. Possible new Wiki page for this. by Huinesoron on 2015-02-26 06:17:00 UTC Reply

Big Sib/Little Sib

This page would make the 'Sib Houses' page obsolete (it would either be marked as such or simply deleted), and the current List defunct. It would be linked directly from the Newbie FAQ, and people could direct newbies to it directly.

It's designed to not be too long - that's why I've cut out 2/3 of Neshomeh's Manifesto - but also to convey all the important information. The basic idea of Houses 2015 is that they are in no way obligatory for newbies - they're just something we offer. Given the fairly low numbers of Big Sibs, that's probably a good thing.

Obviously it's a Wiki page, but it's probably best to discuss significant changes here before making them - if you think any need making! Once it's all hashed out, I recommend a new thread recruiting Big Sibs to fill out the house lists.

hS

I like it. by Neshomeh on 2015-02-26 16:34:00 UTC Reply

It seems to cover all the important points, and the main reason I wrote the long bullet-point version was to make sense of what was coming out of the discussion that was happening at the time. It was left a work in progress, so if this is the next step to completion, awesome.

The only thing I'd suggest is simply getting rid of the old Big Sib/Little Sib List page once this is all up to date. Keeping it would just be confusing, IMO. For historical purposes, though, I guess you could move it to a sub-page of the Big Sib/Little Sib page?

~Neshomeh

Or even... by Huinesoron on 2015-02-26 16:45:00 UTC Reply

... move it over to the LJ to join the other one. It's a good place for archiving things in a way that's clearly not editable.

hS

Makes sense to me. by Neshomeh on 2015-02-26 17:49:00 UTC Reply

FYI, I updated the Darjeeling and Kind Words badges on the wiki. The Darjeeling one is now more tea-colored, as promised, and I lessened the value of the purple on Kind Words because it was a little too close to the copper, and kinda made my eyes water. ^_^;

~Neshomeh

I don't see anything that needs changing. by Iximaz on 2015-02-26 16:33:00 UTC Reply

Other than adding more Big Sibs to the list. That's really all I can think of!

My plan is... by Huinesoron on 2015-02-26 16:47:00 UTC Reply

... that someone who's actually intending to be involved in the Sib thing (perhaps someone whose name contains a few too many letters like X and Z...) will make another new thread asking people to sign up as Big Sibs - or Little ones if they think they need them! I didn't want to carry the old Big Sib list over, because I don't know how many of them are still interested.

hS

House badges? by Huinesoron on 2015-02-25 12:26:00 UTC Reply

Parmandili took rather more research than is entirely reasonable. In retrospect, the letters should've been bigger, but oh well.

House colours: Skull Goblet, red and silver. Parmandili, green and gold.

(The specific meaning of the 'fountain' effect on the Skull Goblet badge is deliberately ambiguous. Is the house purifying the new blood into clean water? Is it transforming water into wine? Is it drawing in everyone, old and new alike? Is it producing all manner of PPCers? The answer, naturally, is 'all of the above'.)

hS may or may not do the others; we'll see

The complete set of Sib House emblems. by Huinesoron on 2015-02-25 14:01:00 UTC Reply

Each house has its own colour and metal. There may also be some significance to the order in which they're arranged.

hS

These look awesome! by Iximaz on 2015-02-25 14:31:00 UTC Reply

Don't tell me you did all these in MS Paint.

Okay, I won't tell you. by Huinesoron on 2015-02-25 14:34:00 UTC Reply

[Silence]

hS

Really, hS? Really? Sir, I are teh disappoint. (nm) by Iximaz on 2015-02-25 16:35:00 UTC Reply

Darjeeling. by Huinesoron on 2015-02-25 13:05:00 UTC Reply

This one runs slap bang into colour-blindness issues; I've tried to match the colour of Darjeeling tea, but I'm sure I've missed by a mile.

House colours are black and... let's call it bronze (and keep a 'colour + metal' theme going, because why not?). And yes, that does appear to be a tea laser. "Jeeves: set Teasers for soothe!"

hS

From what Google is pulling up, it looks pretty close. by Iximaz on 2015-02-25 13:21:00 UTC Reply

Maybe it could be a little closer to red. I dunno, I'm terrible at color comparison.

Definitely needs a touch of red. by Neshomeh on 2015-02-25 16:35:00 UTC Reply

I also sort of expected purple somewhere, but only because that's the color Bigelow uses on their Darjeeling boxes. It's not exactly a universal thing.

Maybe I'll take a stab at recoloring the badge after I've had breakfast.

~Neshomeh

Looking good! by Iximaz on 2015-02-25 12:41:00 UTC Reply

I heartily approve of Parmandili. Not because green and gold is my favorite color combination, nope. :P

I don't think I put it on the Wiki... by Phobos on 2015-02-23 16:29:00 UTC Reply

I rarely put anything on the Wiki, in fact. Nesh does most of that for me; since she is better and faster (stronger?) at it than I am. I did start House Kind Words And A Two-by-four, though...and I might have had something to do with Skull Goblet, but I don't recall.

-Phobos

Skull Goblet was technically me by Data Junkie on 2015-02-24 18:01:00 UTC Reply

Though you're welcome to it if you want it. I'm basically a recluse now, after all, and thus probably bad BIg Sib material

Well, you just about covered all the bases. by Iximaz on 2015-02-23 13:25:00 UTC Reply

But how about a merger of your two ideas? I mean, nothing says Big Sibs can't both be knowledgeable about the different houses but still be able to direct a Little Sib to someone else.

Also, a bit OT, but where did you learn Quenya? Because (short of buying a dictionary, which my parents say is silly) I've been wanting to take a gander at Klingon. Yes yes, different languages, but maybe the process is similar.

It might work. by Huinesoron on 2015-02-23 13:35:00 UTC Reply

It still runs into the problem of the Wiki being quick to go out of date - I mean, looking at the Big Sib list, there's a whole heap of names who I don't think are around any more. But it could work, if the Big Sib redirecting the question uses her brain. (Also I should take myself off that list until/unless I feel up to sibbing again)

Unfortunately, I learnt Quenya through Ardalambion, which has a lovely course but doesn't extend beyond Middle-earth.

What I can say is: don't try to learn the vocabulary from the outset. The important thing is to learn the grammar, which is what the Quenya course focusses on (and is also what language websites like Duolingo do). It's a lot easier to look up a word than to look up a grammatical structure.

Actually, particularly with Sindarin, I usually have to look up both. The key is knowing what to look up - with Sindarin, I know that the second element in a compound undergoes soft mutation of its initial consonant, so all I need to look up is what the particular mutation is. Also - don't be afraid to write things down! Notes are really useful for checking back over.

hS

Awesome! by Iximaz on 2015-02-23 13:46:00 UTC Reply

That might explain why I've found my Latin class easier than Spanish (first foreign language) or French (third)— my Latin teacher taught grammar first, whereas my other teachers threw vocabulary at us.

Also, dangit, you just had to provide a link, didn't you? :P Welp, I know what I'm reading next.

Dead Language Syndrome. by Huinesoron on 2015-02-23 14:13:00 UTC Reply

For living languages, the ones you might actually have to speak, they tend to teach you the phrasebook. I learnt how to ask a shopkeeper for tomatoes in German, for instance, even though I'm pretty sure Germany has gone the way of the rest of the world and invented supermarkets. But the assumption is that you'll need to use the language - and to do so in an everyday context. So you learn to ask for directions; you don't learn the nuances of the Past Historic tense, because it's not necessary for catching a bus.

But Latin is different. You will never buy your groceries in Latin (or, much to my dismay, Quenya any more). That means they're free to teach it to you as an academic discipline, not a life skill. And just like you don't learn Chemistry by rote learning every possibly compound, you don't learn an academic language by rote learning the vocab. You learn the tools to make it all fit together, instead. (Or if you prefer: you'll never hear a maths teacher say 'today, we'll learn the sums of the numbers between 120 and 140!'; they'll just teach you what + means and let you figure the rest out yourself)

hS

Good point. by Iximaz on 2015-02-23 20:25:00 UTC Reply

By the way, thanks a ton for that link. It kept me very entertained in school today. And I learned a lot about linguistics! So yay!

Oh, And One More Thing(TM): by Huinesoron on 2015-02-23 09:32:00 UTC Reply

The page currently says Big Sibs should be in no more than two houses. I know why that's there, because I'm the one who argued hard for it - but it's stupid. ;) Like I said, it makes the whole concept pretty superfluous. One person, one house, ~~one vote, one people, one world!~~

hS

What is this, Sib? (nm) by darklordaakmal on 2015-02-23 09:25:00 UTC Reply

"Sib" is short for "sibling." by Neshomeh on 2015-02-24 18:48:00 UTC Reply

Is that what you were asking?

~Neshomeh

Yes, but now I need to ask one thing. by darklordaakmal on 2015-02-26 02:58:00 UTC Reply

What are Sib houses?

The Wiki is your friend by Hieronymus Graubart on 2015-02-26 11:46:00 UTC Reply

Type “sib” into the search field, or just look here.

HG

This looks like a good idea. by Hieronymus Graubart on 2015-02-23 08:28:00 UTC Reply

Actually, last summer I considered asking whether this is still a thing and whether newbies should be encouraged to try and find a big sib.

But then I decided that I’m not the right person to bring it up. I definitely fall under "Folk who neither need a Big Sib nor feel qualified to be one". Hieronymus the hermit doesn’t need no family.

HG