Subject: So, if the SEP isbroken the equipment stops working too? (nm)
Author:
Posted on: 2015-02-18 01:38:00 UTC
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I just had a thought about technology at Hogwarts. by
on 2015-02-15 20:33:00 UTC
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We know it's not supposed to work. So, if that's the case, why is it that CADs and remote activators can work in Hogwarts? I remember something about iron-based technology not working in the Discworld (it was a long time ago, please don't shoot me if I'm wrong), so why does it work in Hogwarts?
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SEP fields. by
on 2015-02-17 18:51:00 UTC
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No, really. According to Ekwy, Milano, and Nea, at least.
~Neshomeh -
So the SEP field isnÂ’t "technology"? by
on 2015-02-18 11:29:00 UTC
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I’m tempted to send the Uncanonical Department of Inaccuracies in to hit Makes-Things over the head with Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire. Since when does "technology" not work at Hogwarts? This fanon is apparently based on Hermione’s explanation why Rita "The Bug" Skeeter couldn’t bug Hogwarts. But Hermione talked only about electricity and some examples of electric or electronic devices, like microphones, recorders, radio etc.
Hagrid’s crossbow is technology. Harry’s watch is technology. Colin Creevey’s camera is technology. There’s no implication in canon that these devices are magical, and they work just fine at Hogwarts.
I'm sure that the TCDA’s steampunk equivalents of PPC technology would work at Hogwarts. And there is no reason to assume that futuristic sci-fi-technology would not work at Hogwarts as long as we don’t assume that all technology from fictional future worlds will always be an application of electricity.
HG -
But CADs are electric. by
on 2015-02-18 12:49:00 UTC
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Or at least they seem to be, based on the frequent sparks and explosions (and the LCD).
According to the precise phrasing, not only did 'technology' as a term come from Agent Ekwy, not Makes-Things, but M-T put an SEP 'field' around the CADs - not an SEP 'generator' in them. Which implies that it's non-electronic tech, and therefore - as you say - would work just fine.
(I'm increasingly wondering whether the Uncanonical Department of Inaccuracies was set up by the Board of Flowers after the fall of the DIO, in order to achieve the kinder parts of the purpose of said department - but still kept under ridiculously tight secrecy, because Flowers are natural conservatives)
hS -
Story time: Narrative Laws by
on 2015-02-19 09:15:00 UTC
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Agent Hieronymus sat in front of the console and glared at the screen. The screen glared back, displaying an article that described all sorts of CADs and clearly said that wires and electronics where therein. It also displayed, in a smaller window, two quotes from Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire (Chapter 28): "Harry started explaining about hidden microphones and recording equipment ... " and "All those substitutes for magic Muggles use – electricity, and computers and radar, and all those things – they all go haywire around Hogwarts, there's too much magic in the air."
Androia shut the door with a bang. Hieronymus started and turned around. Androia’s robe was now decorated with a sticker saying "Trust DoSAT – we make things work" and, in much smaller letters, "Department of Sufficiently Advanced Technology".
"You’ve been at DoSAT? What did you do there? Hit Makes-Things over the head?"
"No, I talked with him about our CAD not working at Hogwarts."
"And?"
"He said it should work, because it is shielded from the magic by some sort of field making it Somebody Else’s Problem."
"But the description doesn’t say anything about a built-in SEP generator!"
"He also gave me some stickers; these are for you."
"If agents understand it, DoSAT doesn’t do it. Department of Sufficiently Advanced Technology. Yeah, that’s funny." Hieronymus hefted the sticker unto his wizard’s robe. Then he read the other one:
STOP BEING REASONABLE!
Hieronymus frowned. "Makes-Things made a mistake," he said. "You should wear this. "
"Why?"
"Because I can’t see it while it is on my chest."
Androia looked puzzled for a moment, but then here face brightened. "Now I understand why Make-Things said I should also wear this," she said, producing another sticker from here robe’s waist pocket.
DON’T EVEN THINK ABOUT IT!
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Author’s note: This is out of continuity for obvious reasons. I totally don’t follow a secret plan to write comments in form of ficlets until everybody believes that I got Permission ages ago and just never got to write actual missions and interludes.
HG -
Forgot to mention: by
on 2015-02-19 09:34:00 UTC
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If this ever becomes canonical, it probably happens after Androia yelled three times – in three different missions to Hogwarts – "STOP BEING REASONABLE! We need this device working NOW! And it is certainly NOT electronic!"
And I should try to find a beta reader for my comments. It’s her robe’s waist pocket.
HG -
Darn, ya beat me to it. by
on 2015-02-17 20:40:00 UTC
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Okay, I didn't have a link, so you beat me to being better than me... anyhow. I was going to say it could be the canon-cloaking effect accepting such devices as 'native' despite them not actually fitting in. Agent Ekwy disagrees, naturally, and she might even be right. ^_^
I wonder - is that the first instance of an SEP field taking the place of canon cloaking in a PPC story? It's certainly early enough...
(I think it'd be more interesting if we'd established early on that non-native technology of whatever kind simply doesn't exist in canon worlds, but that ship sailed with... ehm... Rambling Band, so never mind.)
hS -
So, if the SEP isbroken the equipment stops working too? (nm) by
on 2015-02-18 01:38:00 UTC
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DonÂ’t worry by
on 2015-02-15 23:52:00 UTC
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Actually, clockworks and steam engines and such technology work quite well at Hogwarts. Electricity and electronics are supposed to not work due to magical interference, but this may depend on whether you believe Hermione Granger. After all she is only mostly right. Anyway, PPC technology is probably powered by plot holes and applied phlebotinum and thus not affected by magical interference.
Saxo Cruore was recruited because Mittens and the Radioactive Moss Creature needed a wizard to obliviate everybody at Hogwarts. I assume their neuralyzer didn’t work because the Ironic Overpower could proactively take advantage of RMC remembering that something ripped off Man in Black should be powered by electricity. Like others already suggested, I assume that Rina and Randa’s neuralyzer worked because they never thought about it.
Basically, PPC technology works at Hogwarts as long as the agents don’t know how to change or recharge the battery.
HG -
That's a very good question... by
on 2015-02-15 21:30:00 UTC
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And since this is PPC technology we're talking about, there could be several answers:
- Maybe DoSAT's Sufficiently Advanced Technology really is indistinguishable from magic, even to magic itself.
- Maybe PPC tech uses a little bit of magic. Would enchanted technology work at Hogwarts? There was the flying Ford Anglia, but I'm not sure if it counts.
- Maybe it has some kind of shielding against magical interferences, specifically made for continua where magic and technology can't work together.
- Maybe it really isn't supposed to work, and the badfic warps the continuum so badly that technology can (barely) work at Hogwarts. That theory would probably be disproved by trying to use a CAD or RA in a goodfic or the original continuum, though. Has anyone done this yet?
- Maybe it's some other stuff I didn't think of.
By the way, it raises another interesting question. Would PPC technology work in the "Orthogonal" continuum, where normal electronics can't work due to a change in the laws of physics? I mean, I don't think there's Orthogonal badfic, but it's still interesting to think about... -
Yeah, that sounds like Greg Egan. by
on 2015-02-18 13:02:00 UTC
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He had non-3D+1 universes in another novel I read, I think it was Diaspora - I distinctly remember discussions of orbits in non-3D+1 environments.
Speaking of altered laws of physics, there's also the universes of Unicorn Jelly/To Save Her and Pastel Defender Heliotrope, which are... really weird. That's both the stories and the universes which are weird - the latter feature different fundamental forces and particles of matter than our own universe.
Then there's the multiverse of Fine Structure, which is where I pulled the '3D+1' terminology from, and also goes into ridiculous numbers of dimensions... and has some kind of connection with UJ/TSH/PDH, since both of them use 'ana' and 'kata' as the names for fourth-spatial-dimension directions. They may both be drawing on the same source, though, I can't find a specific mention of it anywhere.
Heck, for that matter, Flatland. And I actually did a mission into there, here. Looking at it, I explained how the notepad worked in 2D, but just glossed over the Remote Activator with 'I hope it still works'. Apparently it did, which suggests that something like the conditions in PDH applies - PPC tech alters itself to still work under the local laws of physics, if it possibly can.
hS -
Hm... by
on 2015-02-15 21:48:00 UTC
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I'd reckon that it works the same way Bleeprin works - once you think it doesn't work, it stops working.
Fittingly, Bleerpin comes from HFA. -
I would go for the first option. (nm) by
on 2015-02-15 21:34:00 UTC
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Uhm... Magic...? *gets boo'ed off the stage* by
on 2015-02-15 20:56:00 UTC
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More seriouly though, that's a very interesting question, that just now started to wonder myself.
I could venture an answer, but I'm not that familiar with that continuum, so will venture a question:
Is there way to create magical items with those very same funtions in the Harry Potter continuum? -
Well... by
on 2015-02-15 21:04:00 UTC
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Portals could be replaced with Portkeys and Apparation, though it would be way too much trouble for agents to drag Portkeys around (not to mention they activate at a certain time and take you to a predetermined location, and need a spell to be created), and Apparation is only possible for witches and wizards and can't be done within Hogwarts (or other similarly warded areas).
CADs could be replaced with the low-tech (though not as accurate) litmus strips...
I really hope I didn't just break all Potterverse missions. :P -
Humm.... by
on 2015-02-15 21:30:00 UTC
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As far as my research takes me... apparently CADs have been usable within Howarts since Mission 18 of The Original Series, so is much better if you take The MT3K Mantra, relax and don't think too much about.
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D'aww, lookit the mini-Aragog by
on 2015-02-15 23:29:00 UTC
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*portals Howarts to HFA*
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So, kind of like by
on 2015-02-15 21:35:00 UTC
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how you shouldn't question how Bleeprin works? Gotcha. ;)
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Well, Jay & Acacia had flames in a box... by
on 2015-02-15 21:43:00 UTC
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So, yeah, probably that's for the best. XD
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I mean, it's been established for a long time that it works. by
on 2015-02-15 21:45:00 UTC
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I don't mind, I really don't. What I really want to know, though, is how it works. (I like the magic shield theory, by the way.)
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Maybe, or perhaps is Oan technology. (nm) by
on 2015-02-16 15:46:00 UTC
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Thanks for breaking it. :P by
on 2015-02-15 21:28:00 UTC
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So... technology won't work, and magical solutions would be difficult at best. This is quite a problem - perhaps missions around Hogwarts should require a Muggle-use wand at the least from now on? I know magic hasn't been explained, but the PPC might be able to develop new spells to suit the purposes of agents (and since I'm not familiar with the canon as much as I should be, please take anything I say with a grain of salt). It's possible the Department of Mysteries could assist, and it's not far fetched that they could have some knowledge of the PPC (again, just making theories here). Perhaps a magical enhancement to existing PPC tech would be the answer, something that acts as a sort of "admin password" for the wards to allow agents to move as needed.
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Re: Thanks for breaking it. :P by
on 2015-02-15 21:34:00 UTC
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Well, like hS pointed out, just because someone seems likely to know about the PPC doesn't mean they do.
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Addendum by
on 2015-02-15 21:19:00 UTC
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Also, Portkeys and Apparation wouldn't be able to skip past chapters like RAs can.