The PPC Posting Board - Latest posts

I have a mission coming through later this week (once I get through the ending); would it be potentially helpful for me to use it as a worked example and explain the thought processes behind it?

hS

In fact, this will be a good way to play around with charter ideas you have!

(The events are also only as canon as individual writers decide them to be, and if your characters get pulled into a story, they'll be covered by the Permission field of whoever's writing it if you haven't got yours yet.)

So have fun!

- Tomash

Does this require Permission?

I likely won't be able to join in right away, since I'll be out of town visiting family this weekend, but there's the benefit of starting in advance of the actual holiday, eh? It won't be over before it begins. ^_^

Thanks!

~Neshomeh

Since a few folks in the chat were interested, and there's probably at least a few folks who weren't around at that time who would be, I'm going to be starting a Halloween party RP this weekend (probably Friday night or Saturday).

I'll stick the link in this thread when I've got the starter post.

I figured I'd let folks know this is in the works so they can idly contemplate who'll be dressed as what.

- Tomash

Thanks for taking the time to explain some of your process.

I might try something like this once I actually start working on mission #2 so as to prevent things from getting bogged down.

I feel like this is something it'd help to put on the wiki somewhere, just so it's easier to refer to, but I can't quite think where I'd put it.

- Tomash

In a Google Doc spreadsheet (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1FFRywWbatsQvIYWE8EaaJBwccMx7Hg2wPVWkk3CO4/edit?usp=sharing).

Note: objects are assigned on order of sign-ups so people can see which objects have been used, and this order will have no bearing on the game once it begins.

Thanks for directing me to this; I know I read this earlier, I checked the entire front page in mid-September, but I must have forgotten or mentally filed this under 'old missions'.

Actual comments now!

The section with the rapid scene changes seems done pretty well, although it seems to make more sense if the original is read; maybe make it more explicit what happens here?

Something you might want to say; I noticed that the four Sues are all described as 'nieces' (including when it makes no sense). It seems like the author heard 'no children/grandchildren of canon characters' and applied it literally.

Might you try to get some form of charges out of chapters 5-7? The attempt to write 'dark' events is so badly overdone it's almost comical, and I feel like this section was skimmed over, although I suppose the formatting might justify the pacing. Also, I don't know if you did anything with this, but the author misspells 'wreak' as 'reak' in chapter 7, which is an archaic word meaning "prank" - might be usable.

I would say you were being a bit harsh with the Sues, but Rebecca has no distinguishing characteristics of any sort and Alexia's nearly as bad.

Overall, a pretty good mission, although its connection to DOGA as such is a bit tenuous.

Paul Benden was an Admiral. However nice he was, at his heart he would have seen himself as commanding Fort. He passed that 'my ship, my rules' outlook on to every Lord Holder after him.

Emily Boll was a Governor. She would have viewed herself as responsible for and representative of Fort. Give that mindset to the others, and you end up with...

... dare I say, democracy?

hS

Pern was colonised under the command of Paul Benden and Emily Boll. Benden gave his name to the second Weyr; Boll got an insignificant Hold south of Fort. Seriously, does Southern Boll do anything? Oh, I see it gets a Lady Holder in Skies, big woo.

Dragonsdawn has Emily taken out of commission in a crash during the Second Crossing, and dying of fever a few years later without seemingly doing anything in between; Paul lasts, according to this timeline, another decade. As our simplest point of divergence, let's just flip that on its head: Paul Benden is injured in the crash, and Emily Boll takes centre-stage. I think they're about the same age, so we can assume she dies around the same time. Somewhere in between, Ju Adjai founds Southern Benden south of Fort - meaning that the first two major holds are both held by Lady Holders (and the third, Ruatha, is mostly famous for its connection to Weyrwoman Sorka).

The first big change is that Paul is presumed to have had at least one child and founded the bloodline of Fort, while Emily isn't known to have had any (makes sense, as men can have kids older than women can). So let's take that and run with it: the very first Hold will be inherited by someone unrelated to its Lady. Lord Holders in the Primeline are technically elected: with Emily pushing, that election would have some teeth to it.

And I think that would feed over to the dragonriders. Sean's frankly daft idea that the second Weyr should be led by whichever Queen first rises to mate gets overturned by Sorka on the grounds that 'Emily would never stand for it (you sexist pig)'. The riders vote for their Weyrwoman, and - crucially, in establishing the separation of powers - she will run the effort against Thread until her dragon rises and allows one of the bronzes a chance to prove himself the strongest.

In defiant honour of this decision, the second Weyr is naturally named Boll, and equally naturally, a Lady Holder is appointed to Boll Hold. There are 13 Major Holds dating to the First Pass; Tillek, Ruatha, and Telgar are known to have been founded by men, and in this timeline, Fort, South Benden, and Boll were founded by women. Lemos is an offshoot of Boll, so would presumably adopt its attitudes.

Of the six unspecified Holds, one (Bitra) is named for a woman (though not a terribly nice one); Ista was semi-founded by the selfsame Bitra, and ultimately by a group of four families. It wouldn't be surprising for them to have a Lady Holder in the first couple of generations, especially if the Weyr put its oar in. So we have a roughly egalitarian society in place by around the 30th Turn on Pern.

Of course, we know from history that equality is the first to go when times get tough, and is really easy for a tyrant to overturn. I think the technological decline is probably inevitable - a small population simply can't support high technology, particularly when fighting for its life. So things are on dangerous ground by the beginning of the Second Pass, just as in the Primeline.

What we really need to cement the changes is a firm response to that sociopath Chalkin of Bitra. My memory is that the Lords Holder hemmed and hawed about interfering with his autonomy - that sort of power-oriented thinking is classically masculine. Give us a few Lady Holders in the mix, and give Boll Weyrwoman Irene enough confidence to take Chalkin's unfair dealings to the Conclave earlier, and we have a strong precedent that 1) a Holder's obligation is first to Pern, second to their people, and third (and last) to the Hold and themselves, and 2) not working for The Common Good can and will get you taken out. (For bonus points, we'll appoint a woman in his stead: "Bitra has never had a Lady Holder, it's time to correct that.")

---

My worry is that despite all this juggling, it still might not be enough. All it needs is a Great Plague, and the argument that 'for the Common Good and the survival of Pern, women need to have as many children as possible' will gain possibly undefeatable momentum. To get rid of that, you need to establish a system where men and women play an equal role in raising their children - and from my memories of Dragonsdawn, I don't think Pern ever had that. Certainly those nutters down in Honshu didn't.

hS

I'm not going to say I've always tried to keep things lighthearted, because that would be a blatant lie. But I did deliberately try it with this mission. Whimsy is fun! ^_^

hS

There was a new DOGA mission last month. :)

hS

One more question, just so that I know what I'm doing: is the object a feature of the assassin, or the target? When you kill someone and acquire their target, do you still have to give them the same object, or do you get told a new object to give them?

hS

"Guys! Guys guys guys!"

Nita looked at Nancy-the-Spirit-of-Imagination, then back at the rapidly bouncing Kaitlyn. "Everyone here is female," she pointed out.

Kaitlyn rolled her eyes emphatically. "Dudes? No, same problem. Folks? Now I sound like a Ren Faire. Um... peeps? Peeps! Peeps peep- no, now I'm a duckling."

Hypatia (aka I-Can't-Believe-She's-Not-Arwen) looked puzzled. "Was it a D.O.R.K.S. malfunction?" she asked. "Only you still look human to me."

Kaitlyn stared at her for a second, then turned deliberately back to Nita. "You'll never guess what! There's a game of Assassin starting!"

Now it was Nita's turn to look puzzled. "You're not an Assassin," she pointed out. "None of us are."

"Ugggh, do none of you keep up with obscure party games?" Kaitlyn waved a sheet of paper in the air (far too fast for anyone to read). "We get to pretend to be Assassins by giving people... notepads or something."

"Uh-huh. No thanks." Nita snatched the flyer from her hand and set about pinning it back to the noticeboard. "I've had my- I mean, I don't like the idea of killing people, even in pretend."

"Um." Hypatia raised a hand. "I do? I mean, I think? I don't really have a job, so, y'know... I'll sign up?"

"Er... great!" Kaitlyn kept one wary eye on the taller woman and edged over to the board. "So that's Hypatia... and Kaitlyn... and..." She glanced quickly around the Cafeteria. "Great, she's not here; Selene can join in as well. Fun!" She shot a quick look at Hypatia. "Well... hopefully fun."

---

Because I'm not going to regret including Hypatia at all. [Eyeroll]

Agents Kaitlyn Jackson and Selene Windflower, and HQ resident Hypatia.

Objects can be any of: notepad, book from the Canon Library, mission pin, Canon Analysis Device.

hS

I set myself a goal with Driftwood of staying under 6000 words, and it's worked out brilliantly from my perspective.

I think the reason missions kept getting longer (and I do this as much as anyone) is that we feel the need to highlight every single thing wrong with the badfic. Which can be fine! Some stories really need that treatment.

But with others, it can give a much better mission to pick one or two things and really focus in on them. Kelly the Roman Warrior was 'look how many minis there are/wolves yay'. Pain and Regrets, Power and Battle was 'STOP MESSING ABOUT WITH TIME/Dafydd and Vemi's relationship'.

Thinking about it, what I like to do is actually pick theme from the badfic, and one thing to do with the agents, and use the mission to tie the two of them together. It works quite well from a writing perspective, and feedback from early in Driftwood suggests it works well there too.

Which isn't to say big long missions are bad! My fourth Agent Huinesoron mission is huge, and deliberately so. But they don't all have to be that way.

hS

So I definitely didn’t intend to start this kind of discussion, but it’s not a bad thing, if it needs to happen.

I still feel like a newbie, even though I’ve been here over a year, although that’s probably more just me. I’m not on the Discord, and probably won’t join because time zones and my weird availability mean I’ll basically never be on at the same time as anyone else.

I have been trying to write missions, but it’s not easy. I’m allowed less than an hour of writing-at-computer time, and I’m trying to write two regularly-updating fanfics, an original work and an endless collection of drabbles and one-shots as well as missions. I do post on AO3, but it can be painful and take up a lot of time to transfer a mission from my Word doc to AO3. Plus my PPC works appear in one obscure fandom which very few people will see and one that’s so big works are wiped off the front page before anyone sees them.

Not to mention, I actually find writing missions fairly tricky. My first one came fairly easily, but after that it was much more of a struggle. It feels kind of repetitive since all missions have more or less the same plot, and when there’s so many other things I need to write which have deadlines it’s very often the PPC that slips.

I’m not giving up, though, and I’ll try to get this next mission up by the end of the year, although I doubt it will help the PPC much overall.

You can sign up with any agents (or other characters resident in HQ) that you like. The agents are indeed individual players, and you should write one of your agents killing another if that’s the case.

I’m not actually on the Discord myself, so I can’t really answer those questions.

I just thought of something else: The #badfic channel of the Discord. I don't know about how people with Permission who use the Discord see it, but I could definitely see how it could be detrimental to writing missions in the long run. I know that if I had Permission, I would try to actively avoid missioning things I had previously thrown into the Discord; after all, a good chunk of people would have already seen what makes the fic bad, so it would be a bunch of extra work writing things just to get some character interactions down onto a page (not that there's anything wrong with that, it just puts the "sporking badfic" aspect of PPC writing far in the background).

I don't really have any suggestions for dealing with this potential problem, if it even is a problem. I just thought it was worth mentioning.

Even if I can't personally keep up with realtime chat in a large group, I agree that it's of great benefit to have a space where you're free to try out ideas without needing to commit to them for life.

If you like it, of course, it can always become canon. {= )

~Neshomeh

I'm definitely in the category of "people who aren't as active on the Board as they should be." I do make an effort to check the Board at least once every couple of days, but I usually don't post anything. I think I know why, too; I just don't have that much to say on a lot of topics, and it feels like kind of a waste to write a forum post just to say "I agree with so-and-so" or "nice job on this thing you wrote." Then, past a certain point in time, it feels almost awkward to comment on older posts even if I do have some thoughts later; after all, who's going to slog through chains of messages to refresh their memory on the context of a discussion several days old just to read one more comment? All of this is a problem with me, of course, not the community structure; I could definitely start making more of an effort to read and comment on as many things as possible, it just feels to me like that's not how a forum like this is designed to be used.

In terms of the Rudi's RP, it's one of the main draws of the Discord to me. I know for a fact that having a space for roleplay that isn't canonical (and therefore doesn't require Permission) has improved my writing dramatically. Sometimes it can get crowded, sure, but I think that could be solved by simply having multiple channels for it. I'd feel way more cautious about a more "canonical" RP chat, if only because I think it could cause even more of a disconnect between people who primarily use the Discord and people who mainly use the Board; with a collective setting like the PPC, it certainly helps if everyone is equally aware of developments in the canon. That said, I'm all for the idea if it would attract more people to contribute to the setting in a format different (and less effort-intensive) than writing missions.

(So as not to ignore the original post.)

My ability to keep up with something like this might be... limited... because I'm easily distracted and have poor time management skills... but I am intrigued!

Henry Robinson (age ten) is certainly game, if kids are allowed. Seems like the sort of thing PPC kids would love. ^_^ For a totally common object... how about an old shoe? Possibly just a shoelace?

~Neshomeh

How much further, though, I'm not sure. The Eighth Pass, at least, but really you'd have to go all the way back. I'm talking about reshaping the culture and the history of an entire civilization here. Like, just for starters, if Pern remembers women can be more than baby-makers, you wouldn't have women falling out of the Crafthalls, so Menolly's story would be totally different; maybe not even a story at all.

Maybe the Holds would still end up male-dominated, but I think it would be difficult, especially if doing so would risk pissing off the Weyrwomen. (Who might just be called the Weyrleaders in this scenario? The rider of the dominant male dragon can be the Flight Leader or something, IDK.) This is why I don't quite see Fax happening in this world. The male genetic line becomes less important than quality leadership of either sex. Sure, you COULD still get someone lusting after power to the same extent, but they'd only have politics or all-out war as options; none of this marrying into power and then keeping the women pregnant and docile business.

... Though, eh, Hold governance being passed down the family line might go back to the original Charter? That might still be a thing, then. But you'd still have twice as many options for Holder-in-Chief, and the feasibility of marrying for power changes if both parties have an equal say in the arrangement.

I kinda even wonder if Pern doesn't decline at all. That's staking a lot on female agency, but... is it really? I'm pretty sure anthropology shows that more egalitarian societies are typically better for everyone, at least as measured by health and longevity. (Hey... aren't dragonriders typically longer-lived and healthier than holders even in Ninth Pass Prime?)

I realize my brain is making some leaps I'm not really supporting well right now, but I'm trying to save a little brainpower for beta work, so hopefully I've at least conveyed the general gist of what I'm getting at. ^_^;

~Neshomeh

...the PPC Wiki is public, ergo it already is all publicly accessible. But I do agree with your point; if we want to recruit people who are compatible with our attitude now, we need to show what that attitude is correctly to begin with, and given that most of the really old Board posters have left at some point we probably shouldn't do anything with their work. Yes, 'everything' might be a bit difficult.

So I suppose that means that we should try and prioritize recent missions from current Boarders, if we go through with this? That seems like it would deal with those problems, although it does mean that historically relevant things like Trojanhorse/Paddlebrains, who more-or-less seem to have written the book for Bad Slash, and some of the old Departments like DOGA, which doesn't seem to had a mission in a decade, might be left out.