The reason I invoked Article 7 is because there haven't been any attempts to explain that I've seen. There's been endless repetitions of "you're breaking the constitution" but nothing explaining why what I was doing constituted an actual violation and not just something people didn't want to see. In fact, when VM defended me, and said that I was not making any of this up and I wasn't breaking the constitution, said repetitions mostly stopped. hS has said that I made personal attacks but I genuinely do not see where that is the case. I brought up history, I was sarcastic and brusque, and definitely more than a little snide, but no where did I engage in an ad hominem attack, because I believe that kind of thing is pointless and only makes the person doing so look bad. I did, admittedly, ignore requests to stop from everyone but hS, but my reasoning was that everyone else asking simply didn't have the proper context for what was going on, and they didn't understand what I was trying to do. The reason I stopped after hS asked me to is because, despite my various grievances with him, he has been around far longer than anyone else involved, and therefore, unless he'd just managed to forget the events of three or four years ago, he definitely had the right context to understand what was going on. Also he pointed out that I was about to make myself a hypocrite.

Ban
Permaban: Huinesoron, Neshomeh, Sergio Turbo, Phobos, Scapegrace, Desdendelle, Iximaz, TheShyIon, sjosten (9)
12 month ban: Hieronymus Graubart (1)
6 month ban: Hardric, Storme Hawk, eatpraylove (3)
Unspecificed temporary ban: Seafarer (1)

Voted for banning: 14

Do Not Ban
One last chance: Ekyl, Badger421 (2)
No action, wait a while: Cat-on-the-Keyboard, Delta Juliette, PoorCynic, doctorlit, Alleb (5)
No action: EileenAlphabet, VixenMage (2)

Voted against banning: 9

Other:

Is Data Junkie: Data Junkie (1)

Abstain: Tomash, Matt Cipher, Larfen J. Stocke esq., SkarmorySilver, DawnFire (5)

Vocally abstained: 5

Total:
14/23 in favour of a ban, which are slightly more than 60%. 5 people have abstained. 1 is Data himself. 21 people who have posted in the first page have not said anything yet.

… and suddenly everything is on fire (or the Internet equivalent thereof). Sheesh, I really can't leave you folks alone.

There's no doubt to me that Data Junkie's posts have been disruptive and mean-spirited. Some of the things said in the April 6 Permission thread set off the first alarm bell in my mind. I didn't say anything then, nor did I say anything in the following threads, because I thought everyone else had things under control. Adding my voice just seemed like jumping onto the dogpile. Then, when things got more heated, I chose to stay out of it because I didn't think I could make it any better (not feeding the trolls, I suppose).

That being said, I'm not sure that a permaban is the solution. I'm not really sure what the solution could be, especially since this troll (which I apparently missed — two days!) has muddied the waters. Juliette's proposal of waiting for heads to cool before creating a new thread to gauge everyone's thoughts properly seems like the ideal way to go.

Otherwise, I suppose I would support a six to twelve-month long ban.

*Sigh* I really don’t need this drama.

What happened in the permission rules thread was annoying, because I’ve been there (still a shiny Newbie) when the permission process was changed, and watched the reasons and the effort put into it. But we got a clarification of the rules out of it, so Data Junkie may have achieved something good there. I still believe it could have been done in a less hurtful way.

When Data told Ix that "this place is incredibly toxic at its core", I was tempted to say that I see only one person who doesn’t actively try to make it less toxic. I didn’t, because I’m careful to not post while I’m angry. I spot some posts that imply that Data can be less vitriolic when they try, but I’m afraid that is not enough.

I actually remember the terrible mess that was made in Jacer’s permission thread. It must have been one of the first things I saw on the Board, when I, after reading TOS and OFUM, looked around to see what else might be there. No, it didn’t scare me away; reading everything on The Complete List of PPC Fiction just took another year, before I returned to the Board and joined. Actually, I liked how in the follow-up that resulted in the First Amendment to the Constitution, everybody tried to make the PPC a better place, and that’s one of the reasons why I did join in the end. (Do I see a pattern here? Is it always necessary to hurt people before we improve? Do I actually agree with Data about this? I certainly don’t agree that it’s impossible to argue with the Ancientbies.)

Anyway, I did read through most of this mess again in the archives. (Apparently, it’s impossible to fully read an archived post that is too long to fit the height of my notebook’s widescreen.) As could be expected, real life is a bit more complex than a seven line summary, but hS is much closer to the truth than what Data tried to make us believe.

And then we got this invitation to put our collective foot down.

I can understand people growing out of laughing about half-sane (at best) “contract killers” murdering beloved (by some) OCs. I can even understand them still wanting to keep the PPC as a place to meet friends and talk about everything (except badfic?) we talk about here. But this doesn’t work.

Writing missions is not all the PPC is about. But it is our origin and the toxic (to badfic) core of the PPC. Making the PPC a better place that isn’t the PPC anymore will not happen as long as I have a say on it. And attempts to make the PPC a better place by means that are actually counter-productive must be dealt with.

Still, permanent bans are so permanent. I feel always bad when we have to do this.

I ask Data Junkie to stay away until they changed their attitude. I have no idea how long this may take or if it will ever happen, but since you need a number, I’d say one year.

This is a last chance. It is not an invitation to return just because one year has passed. If need occurs after one year and one day, I will vote for a permanent ban.

HG

When I said I wouldn't delete anything, I was assuming you weren't going to make it easy for me.

Recordkeeping: Toroll in this subthread posted consistently from two IP addresses, 63.147.70.46 and 77.247.181.165. I don't know if our IP wizards can get anything out of that.

hS

((There will be a separate thread regarding name changes going up in a bit.))

I think everyone needs to take a moment and put their drama-llamas back in their respective pens. Multiple threads have spiraled wildly out of control, and I honestly can't tell who is overreacting the most in all of this. (Probably the anonymous troll.)

I strongly object to calling a drumhead court-martial, mid-Drama, with a permaban on the list of options. Not only is it not something we've done before (to my memory, forgive me for not digging through history), it's a pretty much guaranteed way to get a bad result and set a bad precedent. If we want to revisit this topic (and I think we should), we should stop, wait until tempers have cooled, and then consider what actions are appropriate.

I do think that Data is in the wrong here - dredging up old drama doesn't make things better, especially when different people had vastly different interpretations of what was being said and implied at the time. (The one thing that I do remember clearly from some previous drama-fests has been talking with other people afterwards and hearing what they were seeing - I have yet to see a drama-fest where everyone agreed on what was being said, implied, and meant, even with all the posts squarely in front of everyone.)

But. We have only ever permabanned people for incredibly serious reasons, or aggregiously long patterns of misbehavior. Everyone makes mistakes, everyone gets emotional (VM can testify that there have been times that we could hardly type for pent-up anger), and I absolutely object to making anything resembling a permanent judgement while there's this much blood in the water.

I also have concerns with other peoples' behaviors in the last several threads. A lot of people have overreacted and fired off angry, aggressive responses to perceived insults, and along with claims of bad faith flying back and forth, we have a troll openly admitting to acting in it.

If you must, please consider this a vote against the majority, whichever way it goes - I do not believe that consensus is possible at the moment, or that a show of hands mid-Drama is going to make this community a better place.

-Delta Juliette
(Who is, to borrow a term from Seafarer, a fellow victim of Trainwreck Syndrome.)

Or rather, my non-vote: I'm abstaining. If something changes my mind about that, I'll post--and you'll know it's me by the IP and the probable longwindedness--but so far nothing has. And there I'm leaving it, primarily because I'm tired and on mobile and you most likely don't actually need it.

~DF

I'm sure you've seen my post further down this thread, but I wonder if I might get a direct answer instead of an estimate. Why did you impersonate who you did? And why was doctorlit the only person you impersonated whose response was more than just the subject title?

I must say, even though we stand on different sides at the moment, your plan was well executed, besides potentially misjudging when Phobos would be on. Although I wonder if I really should say 'your plan'. For all we know another person may have done it and you're just jumping on the bandwagon and trying to lay claim to it all.

When last I checked, we acted as a community. We discuss matters as a community, and we most certainly do not "ignor[e] blatant forgery of votes and [go] ahead with [...] ban[s]" simply because we want to be rid of someone. That is not how this community has operated in the past three years--not once, unless I missed something major--and, to my knowledge, it has never acted that way. Whoever you are, you are obviously unaware of how this community currently operates--and, to be clear, I say 'currently' only because I haven't been a Boarder since the very beginning and would prefer that any replies you might make to me fall into what I have personally experienced.

And, ha. As to the results being "sadly predictable"? Seriously, what in the world did you think was going to happen? Apart from your assumption that hS might just ignore everything, that is? We responded. We condemned the forgery. We were rightfully angry at having someone post under our names. What in the world else would we have done--giggled about it and welcomed the impostor to come join us, oh, haha, well done on the prank? Yeah, no.

(I also question your reasoning for choosing Data as a target. If you've been paying attention, for example, you should know that a, not everyone here is mad at them, and b, they have friends here who are, surprise surprise, not voting to ban them. Also? If hS or anyone else running a ban vote ignored "blatant forgery of votes" and went ahead with it? We would have a BIG problem, and it would definitely not end with the vote. Ignoring for a moment that just about everyone who was impersonated came out and said that they had been impersonated and oh, by the way, here's my real vote? If the ban had gone ahead under a vote that everyone knew was falsified--well, I'm pretty sure the next discussion/argument would be about that. And with that, I'm back to my point of--you don't know us. You really, seriously do not know us--or if you do, you most certainly do not appear to understand us or the way we function.)

And one more thing? /slow claps/ Congratulations. Your last little aside is both petty and ensures the continued slipping away of any potential positive feeling anyone might've had towards you. (You might also want to check your history before you insult someone based on using 'they' as a singular pronoun--according to Oxford Dictionaries, it's the revival of a practice that's been around since the 16th century. It just fell out of use somewhere around the turn of the twentieth century, from what I can tell. But really, even without that--I identify as female and present (if I'm using that term correctly?) as female. I don't think I've ever been misgendered in my life, except by someone using a language they don't know very well. And I'm still wincing at your comment attacking someone's choice of pronoun and identification with that pronoun. Just stop. When even a never misgendered ciswoman is wincing, there is a problem here. So, gee, how about you consider apologizing to Data for calling them speshul because of their gender pronouns, and then get lost?)

I really, truly hope that whatever problem you have with the PPC community is one that you can move past. Because this is seriously, seriously ridiculous and, in so many ways, petty. Go out and do something useful and positive with your life, why don't you? I'm positive that there are so many more constructive things you can do with your time than sit around trying to annoy an online community of writers.

And that's it. That's pretty much all I have to say here. I'm going to go do something constructive now myself, and hang out with my friend who wants some company. See ya! (Or not, as the case may hopefully be).

Good evening, 'Toroll'. Feel free to pick up your sanity at the door on your way out--that is, assuming you ever were a Boarder and left it there on your way in to begin with. If not, just bye. /waves/

Evening to everyone else, too :) Don't know about you, but I believe we can stay a community and not be 'broken apart' by a troll, of all things.

~DF

We won't. We're better than that. :-)

They've already said they're taking time off; I find a ban redundant.

Historically, bans are reserved for people who: harass other members using outside mediums, or use demographic information to attack and harass members, or harass members repeatedly, over a series of repeated incidents, showing a behavior pattern.

I cannot believe we are voting on a permanent ban based on two adjacent threads surrounding one drama issue… which was started by two people who were not Data. They pointed out several things they see as serious, recurring issues in the PPC (I happen to agree with some, but that's neither here nor there) and also pointed out a behavior pattern they perceive as toxic and harmful. Yes, they were rude about it. But our response is perma-ban? I can't get behind that.

I'm honestly mostly typing here just so hS doesn't see another (nm) post from someone who hasn't shown up in this thread yet and think the identity thief guy found another way in. But yeah, I think a ban of some kind is probably necessary.

Data Junkie's been fighting with... I don't know how many people anymore. For days. They've had plenty of chances to stop, been called out many times, and... I can't see how this *isn't* bad for the community as a whole.

I don't know. I just don't know. It seems like everything has gone wrong, all at once.

But I think this would... help. I certainly don't think it would hurt.

What. The. Flock. Am. I. Staring. At.

With all that being said, I pointedly refused to get involved in all this, especially because almost every single time I tried to have a say in drama got me in trouble. And honestly, I still feel that way, and even though I cannot condone Data Junkie's behavior in any capacity, the inclusion of that Toroll was the point where I decided that none of this makes any sense anymore. I think the community at large will have to have the final day on this one.

So, speaking as the real SkarmorySilver, I abstain from voting.

I wasn't around for the whole incident with previous members of the Board, and even if I were I would need time to know them better, form my own opinion, and then I would have something to say in their case.

I don't know Data that much. Strictly from the way their posts are formed, I would think they are trying to make a change they think is necessary, regardless if the others think so, too. To give you an example, I don't believe the Permission system is in need of a change. About his opinion on the missions? I obviously disagree, since that would shake the entire foundation of the PPC.

Now, about his behavior towards others... I'm not going to say anything that hasn't been said. I consider July a friend, and I choose to believe her over Data, whom I know almost nothing about and who doesn't make a good impression recently.

I do not like to be toyed with, and if we had any proof that Data has any connection to that trolling piece of [BEEP], I would vote in favour of the ban. For now, though, I abstain.

I vote in favor of the ban. Don't think I need to say why.

Normally I'd say give Data another chance. He (they?) certainly didn't get to zdimensia's calibre, or (heh!) Rifle Calibre Guy's. However, Data managed to bring someone impersonating other people into the whole affair, which is definitely a worrying precedent. Further, I find the way they seemingly meant to use the incident Iximaz and I had with July to attack July especially reprehensible.

So no, I don't want him around, and since he kept that grudge against July for so long (without resolving it off-Board), I am inclined to think he is not going to learn, either. I vote for a ban.

After thinking on it, sleeping on and generally mulling it over for so long that I was sure that when I finally got around to post, it would all be over, but then weird stuff happened.
My no is based on something of a technicality. I was around for the whole Jacer incident and it made quite an impression to say the least. On one of the yearly surveys I even commented on it.
What I'm getting at is that I was there to witness it and I do not remember it the way Data described it, but neither do I remember it the way Huinesoron summed it up.
And to people who might suggest that I simply read the archive; that whole clustermess nearly made me quit the PPC and just looking at some of the posts made my stomach tighten. I'm not reading through it again.
So I can't sign off on the idea the Data deliberately misrepresented that thread, simply because they remember it differently from other people, because so do I.

This does no mean that I condone their behaviour in general. I might still have been for a ban, but Cat-on-the-Keyboard's post made me think about things.

Data, if you're reading this "I'm likely to still occasionally make a jerky remark or two if I'm upset because my default setting upset or passionate is "Everyone else has no gorram clue why can't they see things the way I see them" and honestly that's not a very useful setting," is unacceptable.
You don't get to be a jerk just because you've informed us in advance that you're going to be one.

I feel I should clarify my position:

Ban their arse for good.

We do not need people like Data Junkie on the Board or in the community. We do not require them. And most importantly, we do not deserve them. We do not deserve pathetic people coming back to sling mud and hurl insults at people.

One does have to wonder why someone would bother impersonating me. My personal theory - and forgive my sounding paranoid - is that whoever this is wanted to torpedo the vote and make Data Junkie look like the victim of harassment from outside sources, so they could play the hero and make everyone legitimately calling for a ban look bad. Whoever you are, you do not speak for me. I do. And I'm better at it.

In any event, I was and remain in favour of the ban. Indeed, I'm in favour of a permanent ban, because the last time they went away for years? All that appears to have happened is that they stewed in their own vitriol and waited for a chance to dredge all this BS back up again. A permanent ban will ensure that this level of harassment and hostility will not come out of his mouth again.

Sorry if I sound emotional. I am emotional. They hurt my friend. And I am not going to put up with it any bloody more.

Huinesoron: Ban.

Hardric: Ban.

Neshomeh: Ban.

Sergio Turbo: Ban.

Ekyl: One more chance.

Badger421 (possibly): One more chance.

Storm Hawke: Ban.

Phobos: Ban.

Seafarer: Temporary ban.

Cat-on-the-Keyboard: Voluntary temporary departure and mediation.

Everyone except Badger421 is using an IP address they've used previously; Badger's I've explained in a comment to that post.

hS

I hate you for making me go through every single post in this thread to check their IPs so I can wipe your trolling from the face of the Board. But I'm doing it.

This has the added advantage(?) of erasing your lying IP addresses. Good fun.

hS

I don't blame at least one person for thinking it wasn't, though.

For verification: here's an Ardolindo post with the same IP.

It's my home PC, whereas I usually post from work or (yesterday) a hotel room.

I am not behind the IP-spoofing fake votes.

hS

I know for a fact the (other) anonymous poster who was posting in the July stuff is not the same person here. I know who that was, and they're someone who mostly just lurks instead of posting now due to issues similar to my own. I'm not gonna out them unless they give me express permission to do so, but at least one other person in this thread is also friends with them and can back me up when I say they wouldn't ever stoop to this, should their identity become known.

I haven't actually seen anyone suspect them, especially since I'm sure anyone who payed attention just thought it was me, but I figured I'd throw that out there.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

I strongly disapprove of the impersonation of Board members that we have seen in this thread. I hope that this is some outsider troll trying to get a rise out of everyone. The other option means there's a Boarder that felt the need to stoop to vote-rigging to accomplish whatever their plan is. In either case, I'm very disappointed in our Tor-using friend, and I believe they should stopthis . I'm also rather curious as to *why* someone would feel the need to impersonate Boarders.

I don't have an opinion on the vote right now. I either wasn't here for or don't remember the big ball of IRC drama that has been brought up, so I can't comment on that. I read many of Data's recent posts as attempts to stir up drama, which is something that we, as a community, would rather avoid. Whether this all adds up to banworthy conduct, I haven't decided.

I also don't like that someone (who could be suspected of being Data) made several rude or inflamatory posts anonymously. That's Not Done here.

Given the sort of crazy things that've been going on in this thread, I'm cryptographically signing this post (and I plan to sign posts about this topic with the same key). Name's clickable, and it's the email address associated with the key I'm using. Feel free to send GPG mail there to check me on that. Key ID is 2388E924.

- - Tomash, who would be doing the Stern Professor Glare if he weren't just a TA
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Data Junkie has stated in this thread that they intend to take time off from the PPC even if not banned. As I see it, the main problem with their behavior was that they persisted in an argument that the original disputants had resolved. Taking time off would fix the problem in the short term as well as give them some time to reflect on their behavior, formulate an apology, and reframe their concerns in a less combative way. I am entirely in favor of discussing the purpose of the PPC (why write missions, what counts as a flame, how should disputes be resolved), but I think it would be more productive to do so in a more emotionally detached, philosophical way.

I propose a temporary ban on this topic. Specifically, I propose that everyone refrain from discussing the purpose of the PPC, Boarders' personal histories, and their opinions on the structure and functioning of the Board for a period of. . . a week sounds good. During this week, we will all reflect on this discussion, think about how we could have been more diplomatic, rethink our positions, figure out how true our accusations against other Boarders are, etc. At the end of this week, a designated mediator would start a thread for the re-discussion of the issue, where everyone will apologize and vote on whether or not we need to keep discussing any topics related to this dispute.

The ideal mediator I think would be someone who has followed this discussion but was not heavily involved in it and was present for the past incidents referenced. I match the first two criteria, and am willing to mediate, because I love mediating.

--Key hopes we'll be able to get along

Do we call this vote off? Recount? Figure out something else?

Originally posted as Alleb: I'm in favor of this. (nm)

Originally posted as DCCCV: Yes, absolutely (nm)

Probably this is what would happen anyway, but I'm in favour of a temporary soft-ban.
Like hS says, Data has repeatedly been rude, with no apparent understanding of why they're in the wrong. They've misrepresented things, and been condescending.
But they haven't caused the perfect storm that I've seen before, with zdimensia and... others. I think that if we tell Data everything they've done wrong, all laid out neatly, then ask them to leave and cool off, then we've done enough.
And that way, if they come back and do it again, they've been warned, they've had their transgressions explained, and they'll eat a hard ban in about ten seconds.
So, yeah. Ban.
(For the record, I understand how sometimes, people just don't see that what they're doing is hurting others unless it's explained in simple terms, which is why I'm feeling lenient. I'm quite ready to submit to the superior wisdom of others, though.)

Originally posted as Phobos: I'm with Neshomeh, Data needs to be banned. (nm)

But I feel like I need to say my share now that a decision point has been reached.

As much as I may not openly admit it, I am a believer in giving people another chance to set things right, I have only got as far as I have today because other people have held that stance about me, and so I honour them by having that stance towards others.

However with that said and done I do not honestly believe another chance will set anything right, the case is too strong, the truth too irrefutable for such a belief to stand up for Data Junkie, they have pushed too far, hurt and potentially alienated too many people I think of, and care for, as friends for me to stand by my normal stance or for me to remain neutral.

With deep regret and a hope that the consequences of these actions affect everyone involved for the better. I say, ban Data Junkie.

Storme Hawk

For pretty much exactly the reasons stated by Ekyl, I'd prefer they be given one more shot. I'd much prefer to settle this amicably.

Originally posted as doctorlit: I think it's for the best

He's become a major issue ever since he came back.

In so doing I feel a little divided, because I understand your points, and I also understand Data has had plenty of chances to correct their behaviour - but sees said behaviour as not in need of correcting. You make a very strong case for a ban, but in the event there might be any chance, however slight, for amends to be made and for that step to not be necessary, I'd like us to at least try. Perhaps one last chance to avert this course and settle things amicably, and if they mess this up, they're gone?

Originally posted as Desdendelle: I vote yes as well (nm)

I don't think I need to give reasons - hS, Hardric and Neshome already said everything that was needed to say.

Originally posted as Scapegrace: Definitely (nm)

Originally posted as Cat-on-the-Keyboard: This seems like a good idea (nm)

Originally posted as Matt Cipher: I agree (nm)

I was gonna go with shunning as per article 10.5, but since they've expressed quite clearly that "if someone is determined, or just doesn't see the error of their ways, refusing to engage them is not an actual deterrent from them saying whatever they want," I guess that leaves us with banning as the only option.

But, you know, since I'm one of those core oldbies who are so intolerant of change and all, feel free to not count my vote in the final tally. I'll happily leave it up to this generation to decide whether they want to put up with this dren or not.

~Neshomeh

I won't tell anythng about the flames, since I participated to this, but the fact that Data Junkie is hostile to the very concept of mission, and that means being hostile to the very existence of PPC.

While the idea of people having the courage of posting their stories is something I can acknowledge, badfic targeted by the PPC are stories where the faults are so blatant that I won't insult someone by telling that's their best. For instance, speaking of Percy Jackson, the concept of a character being a child of Artemis, or one of the Big Three after WW2, show a disrespect of basic canon whose it's better to laugh than to cry about it. And I'll remember to Data Junkie that missions can also be about trollfics.

If they disapprove the very core of this world and community, why the duck are they sticking around?

Does anyone know how to reboot a Scapegrace?